NFL Draft Walter Football: 2010 NFL Draft 9/9 update - Page 3

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-10-2009, 05:55 PM

2010 NFL Mock Draft

Round 1 Round 2 Round 3

1)Kansas City Chiefs: Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State
The Chiefs invested $63 million into Matt Cassel. Whether this was a smart move or not is now irrelevant - what's done is done, and Scott Pioli is betting his Kansas City tenure on Cassel succeeding.

Unfortunately, one of Cassel's most glaring weaknesses, his tendency to take too many sacks, will be very prevalent in Kansas City because the team's offensive line is so horrendous.

Branden Albert is solid at left tackle, but Pioli didn't draft him and the Chiefs organization doesn't have that much money invested into him (about $3 million over the next four years). Pioli can afford to draft a franchise left tackle and move Albert around in an effort to give Cassel more time in the pocket.

33) Kansas City Chiefs: Eric Norwood, DE/OLB, South Carolina
The smart move here would be to add a rush linebacker to help an anemic pass rush that won't be any better in 2009 than it was in 2008. Eric Norwood opened the season with two sacks against N.C. State. He had 14.5 TFL and nine sacks in 2008.

55)Kansas City Chiefs: Evan Royster, RB, Penn State
The Chiefs should be able to cut Larry Johnson following the 2009 season. Evan Royster is a talented runner who would be a nice complement to Jamaal Charles.

65)Kansas City Chiefs: Jordan Shipley, WR, Texas
With Tony Gonzalez gone, Matt Cassel doesn't have much to work with outside of Dwayne Bowe. I've always liked Bobby Engram, but he's 36. Mark Bradley, Devard Darling? Meh.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-10-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

And this is based on your infinite knowledge of the future? Have you watched him play or is this more anti-UT bias?(btw I am not a huge UT fan but I do watch all their games)

He has a measured 4.4.. Welker I believe was a 4.6

So what other UT WRs failed in the NFL? Roy Williams? Limas Sweed seems to be catching on with the Steelers... How about Jermichael Finley(played TE/WR) Kyle Shanahan? (oops, ok forget that one)

I've watched enough Big XII and UT games to know what a good college player and what a good pro prospect are and how they are discrete entities. When Shipley runs a 4.4 at a scouting combine, I'll eat my hat.

He does not have a "measured 4.4". He has a guestimated 4.4. He also has a guestimated 4.51. There's a reason why guys run 40s at the combine and they take height/weight measurements. It's because you can't trust measurements from the school. He doesn't have speed. He also doesn't have Wes Welker's quickness. He's also coming from a program that doesn't produce pro prospects that correlate to their hype.

We are all well aware of the fact that you watch all UT games. Whether it's your pimping of Colt McCoy, or your continued pumping up of Michigan products, like that douchebag who had good bench #s and you wanted us to spend a fifth on, you can't be trusted to give an honest analysis of the players that you have the most investment in.

Mecca · 09-10-2009, 07:31 PM

You should always be skeptical of Texas players...very few have ever lived up to their hype.

**AustinChief** · 09-10-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

you can't be trusted to give an honest analysis of the players that you have the most investment in.

Michigan bias I will give you... but not UT... I am very skeptical of them for the most part... for example... I was never a fan of Orakpo but I was a fan of Roy Williams.

UT has a solid record in putting out NFL receivers... barring a disastrous 40 time... Shipley will be one of those.

You also totally discounted the fact that he owns most Texas high school receiving records... that is no small feat.

So if Shipley runs a 4.49, you'll change your tune? I see him as a solid #2 in the NFL... are you not even giving him that?

**AustinChief** · 09-10-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You should always be skeptical of Texas players...very few have ever lived up to their hype.

Like Leinart and Bush? Big schools= big hype. UT may be SLIGHTLY worse than others (with Vince Young and Ricky Williams) but for every one of them, they also put out a Roy Williams or Casey Hampton

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-10-2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Michigan bias I will give you... but not UT... I am very skeptical of them for the most part... for example... I was never a fan of Orakpo but I was a fan of Roy Williams.

UT has a solid record in putting out NFL receivers... barring a disastrous 40 time... Shipley will be one of those.

You also totally discounted the fact that he owns most Texas high school receiving records... that is no small feat.

So if Shipley runs a 4.49, you'll change your tune? I see him as a solid #2 in the NFL... are you not even giving him that?

Again, I'm not saying he can't make the transition, but I dont' see him as a likely project. He's 2 years older than most guys, he's behind the curve on learning a pro offense, and he's not a very big guy.

He'll never be a #2 receiver...he's too short and too slow. I wouldn't be surprised if he runs a 4.49, but that's nothing to get excited about. That's marginal speed for an NFL WR. He doesn't have Dwayne Bowe's body type or Fitzgerald's leaping ability. He's a slot receiver if it all works out for him. I see him as a poor man's Brandon Stokley if he works out. He profiles much more as a 3/4, but not a #2. He's not gonna be able to get deep, IMO, and he's not that big.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 09-10-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Like Leinart and Bush? Big schools= big hype. UT may be SLIGHTLY worse than others (with Vince Young and Ricky Williams) but for every one of them, they also put out a Roy Williams or Casey Hampton

Don't count Leinart out just yet; he was beginning to look pretty solid against Green Bay.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 09-10-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Like Leinart and Bush? Big schools= big hype. UT may be SLIGHTLY worse than others (with Vince Young and Ricky Williams) but for every one of them, they also put out a Roy Williams or Casey Hampton

DJ (#15), Mike Williams (#2), Cedric Benson (#5), Leonard Davis (#2), Michael Huff (#7), Ricky Williams (#5), Vince Young (#3).

This is in the last decade

It's ****ing staggering.

**doomy3** · 09-10-2009, 07:59 PM

Of course the receivers that have come out of USC really haven't been any better, and they run a pro-style offense.

**AustinChief** · 09-10-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

DJ (#15), Mike Williams (#2), Cedric Benson (#5), Leonard Davis (#2), Michael Huff (#7), Ricky Williams (#5), Vince Young (#3).

This is in the last decade

It's ****ing staggering.

Mike Williams was #4 and that reminds me ...

Mike Williams (#10), Reggie Bush (#2), Matt Leinhart(#10), Kenechi Udeze(#20), R. Jay Soward (#29)

AS I SAID, Texas may be slightly worse than others but not to a degree that warrants your dissmissive attitude toward EVERY player.

You plan on discounting Kindle as well?

The fact is... big programs get big hype... lots of players fall flat from all sorts of places... USC included.

Mecca · 09-10-2009, 08:08 PM

USC hasn't really had a true NFL dynamic type WR most of them have been of the big slow variety. Which well isn't the best thing to have at the NFL level.

Mecca · 09-10-2009, 08:09 PM

R Jay Soward was before the current coaching staff at USC I wouldn't really count him. I don't count the before Mack Brown time players.

Would you like to compare the players that have made it from SC? There's quite the list of those guys too.

veist · 09-10-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The Walter site does not like the Chiefs and basically ripped the hell out of the entire Chiefs offseason. There was one point when they had the Chiefs taking Okung and it said something like "I'll just give them an irrational pick it'll fit Pioli" or something of that nature.

Go read their writeup on the Chiefs Ravens game this week...

It was Cody they had us taking at #3, and it was like "this is incredibly bad value here so it fits Pioli". Oh and before that it was Benn so honestly he's just throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

aturnis · 09-10-2009, 08:14 PM

Pioli is trying to build a stud defense. A team can win with a mediocre offense as long as they have a good defense. Defense starts on the line. So that's where the team is starting.

The DE's have to be able to rush the QB, but they have to play the run equally well. In order for the 3-4 defense to succeed, they need to be stout against the run. He brought in Tyson Jackson for exactly that reason. He can rush the passer and can play the run. McGee, he's just a complete DE who Pioli took as insurance in case Dorsey can't make the switch. Best case scenario, he's solid depth who pushes for a starting spot. Worst case, he's a stable starter when Dorsey flops.

I like Pioli's approach so far. As the defense sits:

D-Line: With three DE's who could all potentially start in the league once they gain experience, the line only lacks a stud NT. We'll see this year how Tank does. Hopefully Haley can bring the nasty back out of him.

LB's: Right now, with the emergence of Mays, and the transition of Tamba, the starting unit is in better shape that anyone could have hoped for. Vrabel is a stop-gap and a mentor. He'll need to be replaced eventually. While noone really knows what the deal with DJ is, will he step up? Where has he faltered? On the field, or in the classroom? The team will probably need to find 1 or 2 more starters, whether either of them are on the roster, or in the league already we don't know.

Secondary: With 2 stud corners drafted this year, and potentially one this year, not to mention Maurice Leggett as a play making CB, the roster is pretty set at corner. Safety, is another story. Pollard got nixed and Paige is riding pine. Whether that is b/c of his play, classroom work or something off the field is unknown, but let's hope he regains form. Mike Brown is a stud vet who has had some injury problems. If healthy, he could probably serve as a good stop-gap for a couple years. After the starters, Dajuan Morgan show some spark, if he can stop going for the big interception and concentrate on coverage, he could definitely start for this team. John McGraw is decent depth and great special teams. We may need to pick some guys up eventually, but serviceable for now.

I think this defense is closer than some think. We'll see how the season plays out. Pioli could have made a better attempt to get an oline to protect Cassel, it's no secret they're crap. Maybe they know something we don't, but I doubt it. For the record I don't believe Cassel was a mistake, and will be more than a spread QB. Once the defense is built, and the offense has a line and some weapons, he shouldn't have any problems winning, or, not losing. I do know one thing though. Coming from New England, and being brought in by Pioli who knows him, he comes with a lot less questions than anyone who was available to us in the draft.

**AustinChief** · 09-10-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

R Jay Soward was before the current coaching staff at USC I wouldn't really count him. I don't count the before Mack Brown time players.

Would you like to compare the players that have made it from SC? There's quite the list of those guys too.

And a decent list of UT guys as well, and U-M and Ohio State... the fact is... you can build an argument for bias for or against ANY big program. Fact is, the bias is crap.... unless you can show a valid reason... i.e. Texas runs a spread therefore it's QBs will be less prepared for the NFL. But to discount a Texas WR simply because you hate Texas is silly.

(and as to the coaching staff... I would be more willing to look at position coaches and make judgements then to look at HC, OC or DC)

Mecca · 09-10-2009, 08:17 PM

Texas has that stigma because of a ton of guys who were thought of as can't miss...missed.

09-10-2009, 05:55 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-2987187	Walter Football: 2010 NFL Draft 9/9 update 2010 NFL Mock Draft Round 1 Round 2 Round 3 1)Kansas City Chiefs: Russell Okung, OT, Oklahoma State The Chiefs invested $63 million into Matt Cassel. Whether this was a smart move or not is now irrelevant - what's done is done, and Scott Pioli is betting his Kansas City tenure on Cassel succeeding. Unfortunately, one of Cassel's most glaring weaknesses, his tendency to take too many sacks, will be very prevalent in Kansas City because the team's offensive line is so horrendous. Branden Albert is solid at left tackle, but Pioli didn't draft him and the Chiefs organization doesn't have that much money invested into him (about $3 million over the next four years). Pioli can afford to draft a franchise left tackle and move Albert around in an effort to give Cassel more time in the pocket. 33) Kansas City Chiefs: Eric Norwood, DE/OLB, South Carolina The smart move here would be to add a rush linebacker to help an anemic pass rush that won't be any better in 2009 than it was in 2008. Eric Norwood opened the season with two sacks against N.C. State. He had 14.5 TFL and nine sacks in 2008. 55)Kansas City Chiefs: Evan Royster, RB, Penn State The Chiefs should be able to cut Larry Johnson following the 2009 season. Evan Royster is a talented runner who would be a nice complement to Jamaal Charles. 65)Kansas City Chiefs: Jordan Shipley, WR, Texas With Tony Gonzalez gone, Matt Cassel doesn't have much to work with outside of Dwayne Bowe. I've always liked Bobby Engram, but he's 36. Mark Bradley, Devard Darling? Meh.
Posts: 43,452

09-10-2009, 07:31 PM	#32
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-702950	You should always be skeptical of Texas players...very few have ever lived up to their hype.
Posts: 115,380

09-10-2009, 07:59 PM	#38
doomy3 Supporter Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $3143539	Of course the receivers that have come out of USC really haven't been any better, and they run a pro-style offense.
Posts: 12,880

09-10-2009, 08:08 PM	#40
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-702950	USC hasn't really had a true NFL dynamic type WR most of them have been of the big slow variety. Which well isn't the best thing to have at the NFL level.
Posts: 115,380

09-10-2009, 08:09 PM	#41
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-702950	R Jay Soward was before the current coaching staff at USC I wouldn't really count him. I don't count the before Mack Brown time players. Would you like to compare the players that have made it from SC? There's quite the list of those guys too.
Posts: 115,380

09-10-2009, 08:14 PM	#43
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Pioli is trying to build a stud defense. A team can win with a mediocre offense as long as they have a good defense. Defense starts on the line. So that's where the team is starting. The DE's have to be able to rush the QB, but they have to play the run equally well. In order for the 3-4 defense to succeed, they need to be stout against the run. He brought in Tyson Jackson for exactly that reason. He can rush the passer and can play the run. McGee, he's just a complete DE who Pioli took as insurance in case Dorsey can't make the switch. Best case scenario, he's solid depth who pushes for a starting spot. Worst case, he's a stable starter when Dorsey flops. I like Pioli's approach so far. As the defense sits: D-Line: With three DE's who could all potentially start in the league once they gain experience, the line only lacks a stud NT. We'll see this year how Tank does. Hopefully Haley can bring the nasty back out of him. LB's: Right now, with the emergence of Mays, and the transition of Tamba, the starting unit is in better shape that anyone could have hoped for. Vrabel is a stop-gap and a mentor. He'll need to be replaced eventually. While noone really knows what the deal with DJ is, will he step up? Where has he faltered? On the field, or in the classroom? The team will probably need to find 1 or 2 more starters, whether either of them are on the roster, or in the league already we don't know. Secondary: With 2 stud corners drafted this year, and potentially one this year, not to mention Maurice Leggett as a play making CB, the roster is pretty set at corner. Safety, is another story. Pollard got nixed and Paige is riding pine. Whether that is b/c of his play, classroom work or something off the field is unknown, but let's hope he regains form. Mike Brown is a stud vet who has had some injury problems. If healthy, he could probably serve as a good stop-gap for a couple years. After the starters, Dajuan Morgan show some spark, if he can stop going for the big interception and concentrate on coverage, he could definitely start for this team. John McGraw is decent depth and great special teams. We may need to pick some guys up eventually, but serviceable for now. I think this defense is closer than some think. We'll see how the season plays out. Pioli could have made a better attempt to get an oline to protect Cassel, it's no secret they're crap. Maybe they know something we don't, but I doubt it. For the record I don't believe Cassel was a mistake, and will be more than a spread QB. Once the defense is built, and the offense has a line and some weapons, he shouldn't have any problems winning, or, not losing. I do know one thing though. Coming from New England, and being brought in by Pioli who knows him, he comes with a lot less questions than anyone who was available to us in the draft.
Posts: 13,873

09-10-2009, 08:17 PM	#45
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-702950	Texas has that stigma because of a ton of guys who were thought of as can't miss...missed.
Posts: 115,380

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