Chiefs Would You Take This Guy At #23? - Page 3

SeeingRed · 12:36 AM

Allen Robinson (Penn State) thoughts?

PLAYER NEWS
04/29/2014 - 2014 NFL Draft Wide Receiver: *Allen Robinson, Penn State, 6-3, 220, 4.60...Fluid athlete for his size with room to get stronger. Deceptive acceleration with sharp cuts to be a dangerous catch-and-go pass catcher. Physical ball-carrier with balance and body strength to shake off defenders and pick up chunks of yards after contact. Has shown return ability. Reset his own school mark in 2012 with 97 catches for 1,432 yards. His combined 174 receptions and 2,445 receiving yards the past two years both rank No. 3 in Big Ten history for consecutive seasons.

Frankly: If there is such a thing as a blue-collar receiver, Robinson is that guy. He knows the whole pro-style pass route tree from experience in Penn State's offense and although he lacks the speed most teams want, he is a big man with enough explosion to go 39 inches in the vertical jump. - Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR9EWfVyMuY

Bootlegged · 05-07-2014, 04:51 AM

Panthers want him at 28 if he falls to them. Sent the brass up to see him this week. He will go in the 1st.

**Bowser** · 05-07-2014, 10:06 AM

His measurables remind me of Jon Baldwin.

OldSchool · 05-07-2014, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

If we are gonna draft a receiver in the first, he better have the speed defenses need to respect.

Donnie Avery and AJ Jenkins are both capable of being burners. Speed isn't everything; if it was, then every player who runs a legitimate 4.3 should be tearing it up in this league.

What's more important, by far, is:

1. Strength - The ability to fight through contact and come down with any contested balls. Aggressiveness in going after the ball falls under this category as well.

2. Flexibility - Ability to adjust in mid-air to any passes thrown your way.

3. Focus & Vision - Ability to maintain your focus throughout the process of the catch.

4. Route Running - What's more important than being especially quick and fast is knowing when and how to get open.

5. Burst/quickness - Ability to get in and out of breaks and create initial separation.

You just need adequate speed to be a good and dynamic WR. My threshold is 4.5 or lower.

As far as size goes, your best shot at landing a true #1 is to develop someone who is 6'- 6'4" tall.

ToxSocks · 05-07-2014, 10:17 AM

This guy will likely be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round, so no, i wouldn't take him @ 23.

Baldwin taught me something about NFL WR's. Big, strong and the ability to jump doesn't amount to much if you can't get separation. Agility and quickness is what get's NFL Wr's open.

I'll always remember some fan's camp video of Bowe and Baldwin doing a drill. Bowe looked fast, he made a quick cut, had great balance and looked smooth out there. He looked faster than i thought he was. Then Baldwin came up and did the drill right after him and looked gumpy, clumsy and slow.

It made me realize that while Bowe was big, he was agile enough while Baldwin simply wasn't.

When you watch Allen Robinson, his highlight catches are always highly contested. That's a red flag imo. It shows that he doesn't get much separation on the collegiate level.

Go watch Brandin Cooks if you want to see a receiver who can not only separate but also make amazing catches in traffic if he needs to.

ToxSocks · 05-07-2014, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Donnie Avery and AJ Jenkins are both capable of being burners. Speed isn't everything; if it was, then every player who runs a legitimate 4.3 should be tearing it up in this league.

What's more important, by far, is:

1. Strength - The ability to fight through contact and come down with any contested balls. Aggressiveness in going after the ball falls under this category as well.

2. Flexibility - Ability to adjust in mid-air to any passes thrown your way.

3. Focus & Vision - Ability to maintain your focus throughout the process of the catch.

4. Route Running - What's more important than being especially quick and fast is knowing when and how to get open.

5. Burst/quickness - Ability to get in and out of breaks and create initial separation.

You just need adequate speed to be a good and dynamic WR. My threshold is 4.5 or lower.

As far as size goes, your best shot at landing a true #1 is to develop someone who is 6'- 6'4" tall.

Strength is absolutely not number 1. There's plenty of big, strong WR's that don't amount to dick. If you have the ability to get open, then you don't need the strength to push off a DB for a contested ball. How strong do you think DeSean Jackson is?

Agility is number one, easily. Agility and quickness equates to better route running, which equals more separation and better ability to adjust to the ball.

Guys like Calvin Johnson and Fitz aren't just big, but they're also quick and agile.

OldSchool · 05-07-2014, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Strength is absolutely not number 1. There's plenty of big, strong WR's that don't amount to dick. If you have the ability to get open, then you don't need the strength to push off a DB for a contested ball. How strong do you think DeSean Jackson is?

Agility is number one, easily. Agility and quickness equates to better route running, which equals more separation and better ability to adjust to the ball.

Guys like Calvin Johnson and Fitz aren't just big, but they're also quick and agile.

There are even more small, quick as hell, and fast as hell WRs who fade out of the league. Tell me, what do all of these WRs have in common?

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Michael Crabtree
Marques Colston
Alshon Jeffrey
Brandon Marshall
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Josh Gordon
Vincent Jackson

ToxSocks · 05-07-2014, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

There are even more small, quick as hell, and fast as hell WRs who fade out of the league. Tell me, what do all of these WRs have in common?

Andre Johnson
Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin
Michael Crabtree
Marques Colston
Alshon Jeffrey
Brandon Marshall
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Josh Gordon
Vincent Jackson

Aside from an old Boldin, Colston and Jeffrey (who is a #2) all of them are fast and agile for big wr's, which is the point you are missing. Hell, not even all of the receivers you listed are considered big. Colston happens to be one of the very few big, slow WR's that actually panned out.

Josh Gordon, AJ Green, Crabtree, Jones, Thomas, CJ, Bryant, All of those guys have speed and explosion.

OldSchool · 05-07-2014, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Aside from an old Boldin, Colston and Jeffrey (who is a #2) all of them are fast and agile for big wr's, which is the point you are missing. Hell, not even all of the receivers you listed are considered big. Colston happens to be one of the very few big, slow WR's that actually panned out.

Josh Gordon, AJ Green, Crabtree, Jones, Thomas, CJ, Bryant, All of those guys have speed and explosion.

Crabtree is a 4.5 guy, his knock is that he isn't fast. AJ Green is another 4.5 guy. Dez Bryant is another 4.5 guy.

What all of these guys have, and you can add Bowe to the mix, is strength, flexibility, focus/vision, and route running.

Not all of them are especially quick or fast.

ToxSocks · 05-07-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

Crabtree is a 4.5 guy, his knock is that he isn't fast. AJ Green is another 4.5 guy. Dez Bryant is another 4.5 guy.

What all of these guys have, and you can add Bowe to the mix, is strength, flexibility, focus/vision, and route running.

Not all of them are especially quick or fast.

I don't care if they're timed at 4.5, those guys play fast due to their agility and explosivness.

AJ Green and Dez Bryant absolutely play faster than their 40 times.

OldSchool · 05-07-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I don't care if they're timed at 4.5, those guys play fast due to their agility and explosivness.

AJ Green and Dez Bryant absolutely play faster than their 40 times.

And? What sets them apart from all other WRs in the league? Strength.

ToxSocks · 05-07-2014, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

And? What sets them apart from all other WRs in the league? Strength.

Mr. Laz · 05-07-2014, 12:02 PM

Draft a QB in every round, every year until we get our Aaron Rodgers ....

**FRCDFED** · 05-07-2014, 01:51 PM

If Watkins, Cooks, and Beckham are off the board and I am going to take a WR at #23 then it would be Matthews.

05-06-2014, 04:53 PM
SeeingRed Veteran Join Date: May 2013 Casino cash: $10011193	Would You Take This Guy At #23? Allen Robinson (Penn State) thoughts? PLAYER NEWS 04/29/2014 - 2014 NFL Draft Wide Receiver: Allen Robinson, Penn State, 6-3, 220, 4.60...Fluid athlete for his size with room to get stronger. Deceptive acceleration with sharp cuts to be a dangerous catch-and-go pass catcher. Physical ball-carrier with balance and body strength to shake off defenders and pick up chunks of yards after contact. Has shown return ability. Reset his own school mark in 2012 with 97 catches for 1,432 yards. His combined 174 receptions and 2,445 receiving yards the past two years both rank No. 3 in Big Ten history for consecutive seasons. Frankly: If there is such a thing as a blue-collar receiver, Robinson is that guy. He knows the whole pro-style pass route tree from experience in Penn State's offense and although he lacks the speed most teams want, he is a big man with enough explosion to go 39 inches in the vertical jump. - Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR9EWfVyMuY Last edited by SeeingRed; 05-07-2014 at 12:36 AM..*
Posts: 1,821

05-07-2014, 04:51 AM	#31
Bootlegged One4Mahomes Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: f Casino cash: $9955545	Panthers want him at 28 if he falls to them. Sent the brass up to see him this week. He will go in the 1st.
Posts: 5,234

05-07-2014, 10:06 AM	#32
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $-208384	His measurables remind me of Jon Baldwin.
Posts: 106,876

05-07-2014, 10:17 AM	#34
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $2023063	This guy will likely be drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round, so no, i wouldn't take him @ 23. Baldwin taught me something about NFL WR's. Big, strong and the ability to jump doesn't amount to much if you can't get separation. Agility and quickness is what get's NFL Wr's open. I'll always remember some fan's camp video of Bowe and Baldwin doing a drill. Bowe looked fast, he made a quick cut, had great balance and looked smooth out there. He looked faster than i thought he was. Then Baldwin came up and did the drill right after him and looked gumpy, clumsy and slow. It made me realize that while Bowe was big, he was agile enough while Baldwin simply wasn't. When you watch Allen Robinson, his highlight catches are always highly contested. That's a red flag imo. It shows that he doesn't get much separation on the collegiate level. Go watch Brandin Cooks if you want to see a receiver who can not only separate but also make amazing catches in traffic if he needs to.
Posts: 65,925

05-07-2014, 12:02 PM	#42
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	Draft a QB in every round, every year until we get our Aaron Rodgers .... __________________
Posts: 95,626

05-07-2014, 01:51 PM	#43
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $8966297	If Watkins, Cooks, and Beckham are off the board and I am going to take a WR at #23 then it would be Matthews.
Posts: 3,200