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Old 12-13-2015, 05:15 PM  
Mr. Flopnuts Mr. Flopnuts is offline
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Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady?
He straight up went the **** off! I don't know if this happened this morning, or a couple of days ago but he lost his ****ing shit over it! It was great. I'll try and track down something I can embed into this post. For those who saw it, did you laugh, or were you almost embarrassed for the guy?

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Old 12-14-2015, 09:37 AM   #121
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Your problem is that you think running a team with ****all for talent out and winning is a step in the right direction. It's not. If Herm was had built a decent team they'd have won 6 or so. He didn't so they won 2. And this team was not a retreat QB away from 4 more wins. They were most of a team away, save 10 or so guys that were legit NFL talent. That's on Herm.

Moreover, the #3 you are touting as a great draft position. Teams with a lot of talent don't draft high. Do you know who does? Oakland. Detroit. St Louis. And they still suck. One high draft pick and then the top of each round doesn't "fix" things. I'd much rather have a team that has some NFL depth than a top 3 pick.

Your argument for finding an elite guy at the top of the draft is a joke too. Check out the 3-10 picks from that year.

3. Tyson Jackson - horrible
4. Aaron Curry - Somehow MORE horrible than Jackson. I don't know how.
5. Sanchize - Backup on a shit team. Yay.
6. Andre Smith - middling OT. You can find those far lower than top 10.
7. Darrius Heyward-Bey. Crap WR.
8. Eugene Monroe - Middling OT. Same shit 2 picks later.
9. Raji - has been anywhere from good to horrible.
10. Crabtree - middling WR

I'm glad we were a ****ing joke to get a shot at those mother****ers. **** that shit. Losing sucks. And getting top 5 pick is bad for everyone but ****ing Indy (**** Indy).
There is no benefit other than "feel good" to win 6 games over 2. Getting better draft position was one thing. We had $57M to spend because we chose not to band-aid. That would have put in position to draft Sanchez -- even if he's middling, it was a huge upgrade over Thigpen and also Cassel. It would have put us in position to make a run at several of top notch free agents like Peppers, Haynesworth, Vilma, Dansby, Asomugah. And we would have had multiple rounds to pull in maybe 1 or 2 more contributors.

Losing only sucks if you're not in a position to tank. For a team trying to rebuild and clean up their cap, it's a great thing.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:39 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 View Post
If your best argument for Herm is that he left the team in good shape in 2009, then using your logic does Fat Scott deserve the same credit for how he left the Chiefs in 2013? Six Pro Bowl players, flexibility in cap space, etc.?

The Chiefs went 11-5 and to the playoffs with the roster Fat Scott left... the Chiefs went 4-12 with the roster Herm left.
How are the situations even close to the same?

Herm inherited the oldest roster in football and a nightmarish cap hell situation.
Pioli inherited the youngest roster in football and a completely clean cap. Pioli had a completely blank slate and the flexibility to do whatever he wanted.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:47 AM   #123
ThaVirus ThaVirus is offline
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Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post
Herm? Or Aaron Brooks?

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Old 12-14-2015, 09:47 AM   #124
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
How are the situations even close to the same?

Herm inherited the oldest roster in football and a nightmarish cap hell situation.
Pioli inherited the youngest roster in football and a completely clean cap. Pioli had a completely blank slate and the flexibility to do whatever he wanted.
He's not comparing what herm took over and what Pioli took over. He's comparing what Herm left and Pioli left.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:52 AM   #125
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
There is no benefit other than "feel good" to win 6 games over 2. Getting better draft position was one thing. We had $57M to spend because we chose not to band-aid. That would have put in position to draft Sanchez -- even if he's middling, it was a huge upgrade over Thigpen and also Cassel. It would have put us in position to make a run at several of top notch free agents like Peppers, Haynesworth, Vilma, Dansby, Asomugah. And we would have had multiple rounds to pull in maybe 1 or 2 more contributors.

Losing only sucks if you're not in a position to tank. For a team trying to rebuild and clean up their cap, it's a great thing.
I'm not talking about finding band-aids for 6 feel gooders. I'm talking about building a damn team with some depth that can win 6 games. Just because a dude is a free agent doesn't mean he's washed up. Look at Abdulah, West, et al that I listed above. You can go find good value free agents. Herm didn't. The team he built was horrible. But you want to forget 3 years of complete ****all because he went out and got 6 mother****ing guys.

No. Given 3 years almost any personnel man, including the Pioli Reich, was also ****ing horrible, can go get a few guys that can play. It takes far more than hitting on a Jamaal Charles or Justin Houston to do a team some good.

Herm was horrible.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:58 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Buehler445 View Post

I'll say it again, playing young guys does not equate to going 2-14. Reid's team in 13 was one of the youngest in the league IIRC. Going 2-14 was failing to fill a whole pile of positions with dudes that have a pulse.
Starting 4 or 5 rookies, including starting two rookie CB's and LT that played guard in college was probably the difference between 2 wins and 5 wins. 99.9% of head coaches in that situation who are fighting for their jobs would have brought in a bunch of veterans in hopes of getting to 7 or 8 wins and thus showing "improvement". Most coaches would refuse to go with the "youth model" in their critical third year when year 2 was a mess.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:01 AM   #127
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:07 AM   #128
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Starting 4 or 5 rookies, including starting two rookie CB's and LT that played guard in college was probably the difference between 2 wins and 5 wins. 99.9% of head coaches in that situation who are fighting for their jobs would have brought in a bunch of veterans in hopes of getting to 7 or 8 wins and thus showing "improvement". Most coaches would refuse to go with the "youth model" in their critical third year when year 2 was a mess.
The only thing I disagree with is the LT and backend business. First, Albert played really well. I don't think you can point to him and say McIntosh would have won us more games. Maybe the backend you could, but the two corners were OK. DL (who had some vets), Nickel CB and every LB missed a bunch of damn tackles and couldn't fill a gap or cover a TE. Even DJ, who made a bunch of plays but was inconsistent, accounted for more losses than Carr, Flower, Pollard, and Page. The whole defense was a tire fire after JA left and Hali moved to the RDE spot. Was 2008 the 4 sack year?

But I too am glad he stuck to his guns and showed the world just how good the team HE built was. So all in all I guess I agree.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:34 AM   #129
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He's not comparing what herm took over and what Pioli took over. He's comparing what Herm left and Pioli left.
Comparing what Herm and left and Pioli left is complete nonsense.

It's like trying to compare the guy who took over Enron post-crash to the guy who took over Apple post-Steve Jobs. Of course the guy who inherited a significantly better situation is going to leave behind a better team than the guy who inherited a complete mess.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:36 AM   #130
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Comparing what Herm and left and Pioli left is complete nonsense.

It's like trying to compare the guy who took over Enron post-crash to the guy who took over Apple post-Steve Jobs. Of course the guy who inherited a significantly better situation is going to leave behind a better team than the guy who inherited a complete mess.
Both teams were had ****all for talent save a few dudes and some money to spend.

They were both horrible teams led by horrible personnel guys. Pioli just happened to piss in EVERYBODY'S Post Toasties while Herm was thought of as a good guy.
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Old 12-14-2015, 10:59 AM   #131
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I'm not talking about finding band-aids for 6 feel gooders. I'm talking about building a damn team with some depth that can win 6 games. Just because a dude is a free agent doesn't mean he's washed up. Look at Abdulah, West, et al that I listed above. You can go find good value free agents. Herm didn't. The team he built was horrible. But you want to forget 3 years of complete ****all because he went out and got 6 mother****ing guys.

No. Given 3 years almost any personnel man, including the Pioli Reich, was also ****ing horrible, can go get a few guys that can play. It takes far more than hitting on a Jamaal Charles or Justin Houston to do a team some good.

Herm was horrible.
And again, I think you're overrating how easy it is to find players off the scrap heap. No, Herm hasn't done nearly as well as Dorsey in this department, but Dorsey is also doing it better than most GMs in the league. But you have to acknowledge that Dorsey's success is also largely dependent on taking a ton of swings and misses. For every success, there are a lot of expensive failures too like Vance Walker, Mays, Fasano, etc.... The big QB move Dorsey made makes sense for a team in 2013 that was desperate to start winning. Makes no sense for a team like the 2008 Chiefs who needed every last draft pick they could get to build the foundation.

First, please stop using the word "6." I've pointed out several times he brought in about 10 starting calibre players, with 5 or 6 of them being very good. And even using 10 uses the impossible standard that any GM is going to find you 50 starters on the roster. Guys like Babin, Gilberry, Ron Edwards, Wade Smith, Turk, Battle, Barry Richardson, Studebaker, McGraw are more than adequate roster guys. Throw in the 4 or 5 guys from the Vermeil regime... in 3 years spending barely any money on long-term guys and having shitty draft position 2 of those 3 years, we built out half a starting roster and filling half of a 53-man roster with legit roster players. That's not great, but it's certainly not "horrible" given the circumstances.

Sometimes the decision not to spend is just as powerful as the decision to spend. I complimented Dorsey for showing restraint in 2014 and got hammered by it. People gave me shit for praising Dorsey for not spending a shitload on Jairus Byrd, Desean Jackson, and for stockpiling comp picks. Similarly, Herm deserves a lot of credit for showing the same restraint including passing multiple times on a chance to bring in Chad Pennington.
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Old 12-14-2015, 11:03 AM   #132
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I'm a little disturbed at the passion and time invested over Herm's legacy.
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Old 12-14-2015, 11:10 AM   #133
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I'm a little disturbed at the passion and time invested over Herm's legacy.
But yet nobody bats an eye when people over-the-top rip on his legacy all the time. Completely at random. In ways we never did with actual ****-ups like Romeo.
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Old 12-14-2015, 11:14 AM   #134
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But yet nobody bats an eye when people over-the-top rip on his legacy all the time. Completely at random. In ways we never did with actual ****-ups like Romeo.
The common view of Herm was good scout/poor gameday coach. I wouldnt take any view point other than that too serious.
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Old 12-14-2015, 11:17 AM   #135
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The common view of Herm was good scout/poor gameday coach. I wouldnt take any view point other than that too serious.
Herm was an overrated scout of talent.

Brodie Croyle, Tank Tyler, Turk McBride, Glenn Dorsey.

That is Herm's selected QBOTF and defensive line of the future that he absolutely bombed.
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