Chiefs Veach's '21 Offseason Plan to Keep Us Thriving: Let's speculate - Page 150

Dante84 · 02-08-2021, 10:03 AM

In order to prevent us wasting precious years of Patrick Mahomes' career, Veach needs to work some magic this offseason. What's your advice for him?

**Tribal Warfare** · 03-04-2021, 01:02 PM

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Originally Posted by RunKC

You’re looking at maybe 1 new starter on the OL with development draft picks later on in the draft. Might as well accept that now.

Veach pointed out CB & OL being deep in the draft, IMO Unless they are a freak athlete defensive prospect then the Chiefs will draft more than OL.

Sassy Squatch · 03-04-2021, 01:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Chris Meck

you answered none of my questions.

So you just want to be a monkey throwing shit. Ok.

Yeah, I told you why I'm not bothering. It'll eventually circle back around to "BLABLABLA YOU CANT REPLACE ALL THE STARTERS ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE" even though I've never said that's what I'd like, or "welp son, Veach is just going to do so and so so you might as well accept it." It's pointless.

Chris Meck · 03-04-2021, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Yeah, I told you why I'm not bothering. It'll eventually circle back around to "BLABLABLA YOU CANT REPLACE ALL THE STARTERS ON THE OFFENSIVE LINE" even though I've never said that's what I'd like, or "welp son, Veach is just going to do so and so so you might as well accept it." It's pointless.

what's pointless is throwing shit without offering options.

Just stay out if you have no opinion other than "YOUR PLAN SUCKS"

How about- "Rather than Peters I'd like player X"

"I don't think Osemele plays again. I'd like to sign player Y to a cheap veteran deal instead"

When all you do is throw shit you're just an asshole.

Chris Meck · 03-04-2021, 01:09 PM

I'll tell you this-

If Jason Peters passes a physical at age 39, he's a better player than Remmers has ever been in his life.

and I wouldn't want to depend on either starting 19 games.

AND-furthermore, the best case scenario would be that Peters wouldn't play at all. You're planning on Fisher and Schwartz being good to go day one. You're planning on Niang being ready to play if either falters. Peters is your plan 'C'. There's really no downside at all.

Sassy Squatch · 03-04-2021, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

what's pointless is throwing shit without offering options.

Just stay out if you have no opinion other than "YOUR PLAN SUCKS"

How about- "Rather than Peters I'd like player X"

"I don't think Osemele plays again. I'd like to sign player Y to a cheap veteran deal instead"

When all you do is throw shit you're just an asshole.

Well, yeah, but when I get the same results either way I'll go the smarmy asshole route every time.

Chris Meck · 03-04-2021, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Well, yeah, but when I get the same results either way I'll go the smarmy asshole route every time.

If your default position is smarmy asshole...then I hate to tell you...

argue your point or stay out of it.

I don't mind a spirited argument. I don't mind people disagreeing with me. I despise shit throwers.

htismaqe · 03-04-2021, 01:25 PM

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Nah, I don't agree. After that disaster of a performance Veach is going to treat that OL like the 2018 defense. Complete overhaul as fast as possible. Not wasting the rest of Mahomes cheap seasons with an OL group like that.

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Good ****ing God I hope and pray they don't operate this Offseason under the assumption Fisher will just roll back into town at some point next season 100% and ready to play. That'd be ludicrous.

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And as I've said multiple times already this assumption that Fisher and Schwartz will just ride in on white horses next season ready to save the OL is ****ing bananas to me. I certainly hope the FO doesn't operate under that assumption for Mahomes sake.

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Just 1 is not ideal, but whatever. Out of your goddamned minds if you think pencilling in both those brokedicks to be starters is a good idea.

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Seriously. LDT has been available for 30 games the past 3 seasons he's suited up for us. That does not include his opt out season. For comparison, Sammy Watkins has been available for 34 games his 3 years here.

He's less reliable than HAMMY TWATKINS.

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Put it this way. If we're pencilling in scrubs like Wylie and Remmers to start next season then I would consider it a complete and total failure on the part of Veach and a personal affront to Mahomes.

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Hell no to Osemele and LDT as your 2 starting Gs. Both are injury prone and put us at a higher risk of ending right back where we were.

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Big Bold Letters for you. NIANG IS COMING OFF AN OPERATION TO HIS HIP AND WE DON'T KNOW IF HE'S CAPABLE OF PERFORMING TO THE SAME LEVEL HE WAS AT BEFORE. THE FACT HE OPTED OUT AND WE HAVEN'T HAD HIM IN THE BUILDING JUST YET COMPOUNDS THE ISSUE EVEN FURTHER

Here's some of your quotes from earlier in the thread.

I absolutely realize that you've said the Chiefs should draft someone like Rashawn Slater and sign a FA center and guard:

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Why sure you can. Plenty of interior OL talent is currently slated to be available this Offseason. Scherff and Thuney are upgrades to the G position and Linsley would be a huge get at C. Sign one of them and draft a cornerstone LT by trading up and you're already nearly there, especially if LDT and Niang can hold down the right side.

Injury settlements to both Fisher and Schwartz. Extension for Mathieu. Restructures for both Mahomes and Jones if necessary. One IOL at market value won't cripple the team, although if you really believe Fisher is going to be able to come back then extend him instead and sign Linsley. That way we can play a little musical chairs when Fisher returns and Niang can take a G spot while the rookie T switches to RT for the foreseeable future.

Although it'd be REALLY nice if the Kelce rumors out of Philly are actually true and we could sign him to a deal a bit below market value.

But when you read all of those quotes above (and that's just a few of them, by the way) you absolutely shit on the idea of starting Fisher, Schwartz, Wylie, LDT, and Niang. Reiter is a free agent.

So yeah, either you DO want to replace pretty much the entire line or you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You have to be fair about what you've said, dude. The reason the argument always ends up back here is because YOU said this stuff, not anybody else.

RunKC · 03-04-2021, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Veach pointed out CB & OL being deep in the draft, IMO Unless they are a freak athlete defensive prospect then the Chiefs will draft more than OL.

Yeah Veach mentioned fixing the lines, but with them projecting both tackles back, it would appear that taking an OL early would be a bench warmer. I’m fine with that if a stud falls to us but it isn’t likely.

Think about this: our OL struggled bc of injuries and opt outs. They were fine in week 1. Meanwhile our DL was mentioned as “a strength of the team” with quality depth and talent and they just did not perform. Wharton was awesome and Danna was a nice surprise as a rotational player but the unit overall was very underwhelming.

I think you can translate Veach’s comments down to these points:

-we have to rush the passer better
-we need depth on the OL and more flexibility
-we need to be stronger

LDT, Rankin, Fisher and Schwartz are all in contract years. We need to draft to replace a couple of these guys to go along with Niang.

Sassy Squatch · 03-04-2021, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

If your default position is smarmy asshole...then I hate to tell you...

argue your point or stay out of it.

I don't mind a spirited argument. I don't mind people disagreeing with me. I despise shit throwers.

If you're not going to bullshit me, currently all I'd like to see them do is sign Linsley/draft Humphrey and trade up a bit for Vera-Tucker. That gives you the versatility you'd need in all scenarios, regardless of if Fisher and Schwartz can return to form or not, and it gives you both bookends of the future with Tucker and Niang since I really don't see a pathway to Fisher being with us after this season. If he has complications with the Achilles it's really hard to factor him in to future plans and if he returns and plays to his usual level he'll price himself out of an extension with us, especially with the looming cap boom. As for veteran back ups I'd say with the cap cuts looming across the NFL there'll be a glut of competent veteran linemen without injury concerns as severe as Peters and Osemele.

htismaqe · 03-04-2021, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

If you're not going to bullshit me, currently all I'd like to see them do is sign Linsley/draft Humphrey and trade up a bit for Vera-Tucker. That gives you the versatility you'd need in all scenarios, regardless of if Fisher and Schwartz can return to form or not, and it gives you both bookends of the future with Tucker and Niang since I really don't see a pathway to Fisher being with us after this season. If he has complications with the Achilles it's really hard to factor him in to future plans and if he returns and plays to his usual level he'll price himself out of an extension with us, especially with the looming cap boom. As for veteran back ups I'd say with the cap cuts looming across the NFL there'll be a glut of competent veteran linemen without injury concerns as severe as Peters and Osemele.

Now that's absolutely fair.

I don't agree with trading up, especially not for Vera-Tucker, but it's a realistic plan.

Chris Meck · 03-04-2021, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

If you're not going to bullshit me, currently all I'd like to see them do is sign Linsley/draft Humphrey and trade up a bit for Vera-Tucker. That gives you the versatility you'd need in all scenarios, regardless of if Fisher and Schwartz can return to form or not, and it gives you both bookends of the future with Tucker and Niang since I really don't see a pathway to Fisher being with us after this season. If he has complications with the Achilles it's really hard to factor him in to future plans and if he returns and plays to his usual level he'll price himself out of an extension with us, especially with the looming cap boom. As for veteran back ups I'd say with the cap cuts looming across the NFL there'll be a glut of competent veteran linemen without injury concerns as severe as Peters and Osemele.

I think even the people here I've had spirited arguments with would agree that I always argue in honest good faith. It's one reason I never use a pseudonym online.

I don't hate your plan. I'm not into trading up really, as I think we need to fill a few spots and should keep as many picks as possible. I'd rather trade down if possible and pick up another 3rd ideally.

But your plan is realistic and worth discussion.

Chris Meck · 03-04-2021, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Yeah Veach mentioned fixing the lines, but with them projecting both tackles back, it would appear that taking an OL early would be a bench warmer. I’m fine with that if a stud falls to us but it isn’t likely.

Think about this: our OL struggled bc of injuries and opt outs. They were fine in week 1. Meanwhile our DL was mentioned as “a strength of the team” with quality depth and talent and they just did not perform. Wharton was awesome and Danna was a nice surprise as a rotational player but the unit overall was very underwhelming.

I think you can translate Veach’s comments down to these points:

-we have to rush the passer better
-we need depth on the OL and more flexibility
-we need to be stronger

LDT, Rankin, Fisher and Schwartz are all in contract years. We need to draft to replace a couple of these guys to go along with Niang.

Two things to keep in mind-

Reid typically drafts college OT's and then moves them where he projects them to play best. I don't know when the last drafted OL wasn't an OT in college regardless of where they played in the NFL. Clearly there are OT skills that Reid prefers regardless.

Also, Reid has said repeatedly that he believes in playing the best 5 guys. So drafting an OT early and playing them at G doesn't mean it's a waste or that they'll stay there next season, it just means they were one of the 5 best guys. So you might get an OT early who plays at G in 2021. That's okay and doesn't mean they won't take an OT spot in 2022 when Schwartz maybe retires or moves on for example. Or if Fisher's not good to go. Just saying.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-04-2021, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

What I would like is a guy you don't have to help, which is basically what you're saying I think. A guy that can hold his own; and I don't think Wylie or Reiter are that guy.

You're asking for too much, Dude.

No NFL team can pay 5 guys at the top of the market at varying positions while having the greatest offensive line in the NFL.

There will always be concessions made by teams because it's impossible to pay everyone their market value and be under the salary cap.

Guys like Reiter and Wylie are fine when they're next to players like Fisher and Schwartz and at one time, LDT. But you're never going to have "5 Studs" on the offensive line unless you're willing to sacrifice more important positions such as DE, Safety, CB, WR and TE.

Chris Meck · 03-04-2021, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You're asking for too much, Dude.

No NFL team can pay 5 guys at the top of the market at varying positions while having the greatest offensive line in the NFL.

There will always be concessions made by teams because it's impossible to pay everyone their market value and be under the salary cap.

Guys like Reiter and Wylie are fine when they're next to players like Fisher and Schwartz and at one time, LDT. But you're never going to have "5 Studs" on the offensive line unless you're willing to sacrifice more important positions such as DE, Safety, CB, WR and TE.

Well, that's why I advocate moving OL up in priority within the draft. You don't have to have #1's everywhere, but mid-round interior guys are going to have more upside than UDFA's typically speaking.

I know we're not going to be able to be the top line in football, but we clearly have some weak spots. A better line makes your skill talent better too, you know.

Hell I'm fine with Alegretti in there at LG if we upgrade at Center.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-04-2021, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, that's why I advocate moving OL up in priority within the draft.

I just could not disagree more.

This team won 14 games with multiple backups at LG, RG and RT.

02-08-2021, 10:03 AM
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $1451996 VARSITY	Veach's '21 Offseason Plan to Keep Us Thriving: Let's speculate In order to prevent us wasting precious years of Patrick Mahomes' career, Veach needs to work some magic this offseason. What's your advice for him?
Posts: 19,756

03-04-2021, 01:09 PM	#2239
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1654910	I'll tell you this- If Jason Peters passes a physical at age 39, he's a better player than Remmers has ever been in his life. and I wouldn't want to depend on either starting 19 games. AND-furthermore, the best case scenario would be that Peters wouldn't play at all. You're planning on Fisher and Schwartz being good to go day one. You're planning on Niang being ready to play if either falters. Peters is your plan 'C'. There's really no downside at all. Last edited by Chris Meck; 03-04-2021 at 01:14 PM..
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