Chiefs What's wrong with Mecole Hardman - Part 2 - Page 20

dlphg9 · 02-17-2021, 05:43 AM

Spoiler alert!

Nothing is wrong with him! Unless you consider Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as being a problem.

Mecole was 3rd on the team in targets (62), rec yards (560), and rec TDs (4). Those stats are right in line with any other teams 3rd most productive receiver and none of those other teams had 2 guys that were 1st team AP in front of that guy.

Green Bay Packers #1 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Robert Tonyan - 59 targets, 52 rec, 586 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 212
Rec - 148
Yards - 2064

Buffalo Bills #2 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Gabriel Davis - 62 targets, 35 rec, 599 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 273
Rec - 209
Yards - 2502

Tampa Bay Buccaneers #3 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Rob Gronkowski - 77 targets, 45 rec, 623 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 193
Rec - 135
Yards - 1846

Tennessee Titans #4 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jonnu Smith - 65 targets, 41 rec, 448 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 198
Rec - 135
Yards - 2059

New Orleans Saints #5 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Jared Cook - 60 targets, 37 rec, 504 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 189
Rec - 144
Yards - 1482

Baltimore Ravens #7 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Willie Snead - 48 targets, 33 rec, 432 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 188
Rec - 116
Yards - 1470

Seattle Seahawks #8 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
David Moore - 47 targets, 35 rec, 417 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 261
Rec - 183
Yards - 2357

Indianapolis Colts #9 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Michael Pittman Jr. - 61 targets, 40 rec, 503 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 164
Rec - 99
Yards - 1391

Las Vegas Raiders #10 ranked scoring offense
3rd most productive receiving option
Hunter Renfrow - 77 targets, 56 rec, 656 yds

Top 2 options
Targets - 227
Rec - 155
Yards - 2092

Average for top 10 scoring offense's 3rd most productive receiving option :

Targets - 62
Receptions - 41
Yards - 530

Average for top 10 scoring offense's top 2 most productive receiving options combined :

Targets - 212
Receptions - 147
Yards - 1918

This is how Hardman stacks up against the other teams 3rd receiving option

Targets - 62 (62 avg)
Receptions - 41 (41 avg)
Yards - 560 (530 avg)

Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce combined

Targets - 280 (most in group)
Receptions - 192 (2nd most in group)
Yards - 2692 (most in group)

So what we can see from these stats above is that nothing is up with Mecole Hardman. His targets and reception matched the average of the 9 other top offenses 3rd receiving option and he was above average in yards, but the big huge difference is Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill just happen to be on the same team as him. Those two have 68 more combined targets, 45 more combined receptions, and 774 more combined yards than the others teams top 2 receiving threats.

TLDR;

Nothing is wrong, he's right in line with the other teams 3rd most productive pass catchers. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are monsters and the best pass catching duo in a long ass time.

PS:

Seriously Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are so good! There was only 11 QBs with more TD passes than those 2 had receiving TDs.

PSS:

****ing Cam Newton started 15 games and had 45 less passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards in the same amount of games!

PSSS:

****ing MVP Lamar had 65 more passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards and they tied for the same amount of passing TDs to receiving TDs.

**RealSNR** · 08-22-2021, 12:50 PM

There's still time for him to "get it." He has yet to cross an age threshold or anything like that where if he doesn't consistently exhibit reliable traits then he'll never have them.

Sometimes those kinds of preseason games against the Cards are exactly what players like him need. A **** ton of targets as the #1 guy in a game (or a game scenario at least) where his struggles become easily identifiable. Yeah, they're the same struggles he's had in the past, and it's all stuff he's heard before from coaches, but people learn in weird ways. Sometimes a glaring real world demonstration of those lessons is the only thing that gets people to flip the switch.

Not saying it's all gravy now, but I think the Cards game was fantastic experience for him, and it's better that kind of moment happens now than in the regular season.

Rasputin · 08-22-2021, 01:19 PM

Sammy Watkins 2020 stats granted had bruised vagina and missed some games but he was our #2 WR

37 receptions (that means he caught 37 balls)
421 yards (that means he gained 421 yards)
11.4 avg (that means his average yards he gained per catch)
37 long (that means his longest play during the season)
2 TD (that means he had 2 touchdowns for the 2020 season)

Mecole Hardman "gadget player" stats 2020 granted he didn't have a bruised vagina and miss some games.

41 receptions
560 yards
13.7 avg
49 long
4 TD

now maybe Mecole needed to step it up and take more advantage of opportunity when Sammy was out of games but did y'all see the catch in the back of the endzone against the Saints?

I'll take Mecole Hardman as a gadget player or jet sweep kinda guy any time because we are winning ****ing championships and he is part of our success.

It's all in y'alls head that he doesn't have chemistry with Patrick Mahomes II but this is the third season for Mecole give him the chance to succeed before calling him a bust. He has game. He has given us opportunities to win games more than he ever has cost us any games. The Super Bowl Patrick didn't have 2 seconds in the pocket there was no pocket so don't blame chemistry when Patrick was running for his life the entire game and that defense crushed our offensive line Tyreek Hill and Kelse had shit game as well.

Give the kid a chance, or not, be an asshole just to pound your chest when he makes a mistake and come on here telling everyone how much he sucks.

Rasputin · 08-22-2021, 01:34 PM

It's sad but seems to me that some of you on here rather Mecole fail just to come on here and brag about how right you were. That's just my assumption I could be wrong this is just the internet that Al Gore invented.

Rasputin · 08-22-2021, 01:43 PM

And for the record on my part if a player can beat out Mecole at #2 I'll be happy for him because that would be one hell of a player to outset Mecole and we can still watch Mecole make spectacular gadget plays for touchdowns and have a productive number 2 WR it's a win win.

I think we got hungry guys like Pringle and Drob has been around long enough he should have already won it but he is Drob. I like the new kid we drafted he is also going make a mark in the game. Going be fun to watch what we have is a bunch of guys that are going wear down defenses by making each play like its a deep ball but it could be a running play with CEH and the big boys up front.

**** I'm stoked for the season. Hate on Mecole watch him make big plays but keep hating on him.

Chief Pagan · 08-22-2021, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Eh haters are going to hate. I'm going enjoy watching Mecole Hardman bust open plays for touchdowns in this offense. I'm also going enjoy watching all the guys step it up and make plays both sides of the ball. Another thing is we have pretty good depth at WR even if #2 is up for grabs those guys can go for four quarters and I don't know any defense that can keep up with our speed for four quarters let alone be ground pounded by our offensive line.

I don't give a shit if he is a gadget player, he is a play maker.

KC is in good shape this year, barring injuries.

But Mecole Hardman wasn't just drafted to be a #2, he was also drafted in the hopes of being able to fill Tyreek's role, if and when KC lost him due to the allegations having been true or free agency or just injury for a few games.

Hardman can contribute but I'm not sure that KC's depth is all that great. Seems to me it is still looking rather thin at WR after Tyreek. Our QB makes them look better than they are. Fine, solve other problems first like OL.

staylor26 · 08-22-2021, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

There's still time for him to "get it." He has yet to cross an age threshold or anything like that where if he doesn't consistently exhibit reliable traits then he'll never have them.

Sometimes those kinds of preseason games against the Cards are exactly what players like him need. A **** ton of targets as the #1 guy in a game (or a game scenario at least) where his struggles become easily identifiable. Yeah, they're the same struggles he's had in the past, and it's all stuff he's heard before from coaches, but people learn in weird ways. Sometimes a glaring real world demonstration of those lessons is the only thing that gets people to flip the switch.

Not saying it's all gravy now, but I think the Cards game was fantastic experience for him, and it's better that kind of moment happens now than in the regular season.

Great post.

You also bring up a great point that is being overlooked.

Hardman was essentially the #1 WR for that game. Just because he’s clearly not ready for that, doesn’t mean he’s not ready for the role he will be playing week 1. He’s looked ready for the latter in camp, and I’m at least waiting to see him for a few full games in that role before I throw the towel on his 3rd year that hasn’t even begun.

Sassy Squatch · 08-22-2021, 02:37 PM

He plays lazy and stupid at times. It doesn't matter where you put him on the depth chart, the same problems will persist. I don't know what else the coaching staff/Mahomes can do with him outside of accepting he's a nifty little gadget until he pulls his head out of his ass. I'd hoped the absolute travesty of a performance he put on during the Super Bowl would've woken him up somewhat but he's still pulling the same shit thus far in preseason. Very disheartening to watch considering we really need him to step up into that role.

Hammock Parties · 08-22-2021, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

He plays lazy and stupid at times. It doesn't matter where you put him on the depth chart, the same problems will persist. I don't know what else the coaching staff/Mahomes can do with him outside of accepting he's a nifty little gadget until he pulls his head out of his ass. I'd hoped the absolute travesty of a performance he put on during the Super Bowl would've woken him up somewhat but he's still pulling the same shit thus far in preseason. Very disheartening to watch considering we really need him to step up into that role.

I don't think he's too bright. Both in football IQ and in general.

Georgia public schools, what can you do? He came from rural Georgia FFS.

Quote:

Elbert County is a county located in the northeastern part of the U.S. state of Georgia. As of the 2010 census, the population was 20,166.

We're talking about a guy who had less than 1,000 yards receiving in college.

He's beating the odds just doing what he is doing now.

Megatron96 · 08-22-2021, 02:46 PM

Hardman has only been playing WR for 4 years (2 in college/2 in the NFL), iirc. This is the start of his 5th season as a WR, right? And last season was laced with COVID, and everything that went with that. Still willing to cut him a break, for now.

Also, at least two of those passes vs. the Cards were uncatchable, by anyone not named Calvin Johnson.

Sassy Squatch · 08-22-2021, 02:59 PM

Yeah, he can't be bothered to run through his routes or turn his head to look for the ball because of COVID...

Molitoth · 08-22-2021, 03:01 PM

Won a SuperBowl his Rookie year...

I wonder how many of those scenarios allow players to lose a bit of desire to put in that extra work.

PAChiefsGuy · 08-22-2021, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Won a SuperBowl his Rookie year...

I wonder how many of those scenarios allow players to lose a bit of desire to put in that extra work.

That's why Mahomes and others need to stay on players like Hardman. If you don't want to be to put in extra work to be a part of championship teams then expect to get chewed out by us and if you still don't want want then we don't want you here.

Rasputin · 08-22-2021, 03:08 PM

The thing about an Andy Reid offense is that it is ever evolving meaning he designs plays with the players in mind not the system. Guys move around presnap so a guy can line up as a #2 WR but really then turns into a tailback and flips the ball to Kelce for a touchdown in the endzone. Obviously that's a made up play but it's an example of what Andy Reid does for his offense. Once you predict it it's going evolve. So Hardman fits perfect in Andy Reid offense and he can be a gadget player & or #2 and still help us win ****ing games so why the **** you guys complaining?

I really don't get the hate for Hardman just because of his draft slot wasn't his fault Veach pulled the trigger to get him a raw WR with lots of potential. Hardman needs coached up and disciplined he has both of that in camp and players making them accountable for each other.

Rasputin · 08-22-2021, 03:12 PM

If Hardman Sucks Out Loud this season he will get cut and replaced by Veach it's as simple as that. Until then let's watch these guys put on a show and win some ****ing games.

ThyKingdomCome15 · 08-22-2021, 03:19 PM

Kelce and Hill have tremendous chemistry with Mahomes. That's what's missing. I'm not sure it can be fixed honestly. We need a highly athletic instinctive WR. That's what Patrick likes. Mecole just doesn't have that feel.

02-17-2021, 05:43 AM
dlphg9 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1490347	What's wrong with Mecole Hardman - Part 2 Spoiler alert! Nothing is wrong with him! Unless you consider Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce as being a problem. Mecole was 3rd on the team in targets (62), rec yards (560), and rec TDs (4). Those stats are right in line with any other teams 3rd most productive receiver and none of those other teams had 2 guys that were 1st team AP in front of that guy. Green Bay Packers #1 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Robert Tonyan - 59 targets, 52 rec, 586 yds Top 2 options Targets - 212 Rec - 148 Yards - 2064 Buffalo Bills #2 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Gabriel Davis - 62 targets, 35 rec, 599 yds Top 2 options Targets - 273 Rec - 209 Yards - 2502 Tampa Bay Buccaneers #3 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Rob Gronkowski - 77 targets, 45 rec, 623 yds Top 2 options Targets - 193 Rec - 135 Yards - 1846 Tennessee Titans #4 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Jonnu Smith - 65 targets, 41 rec, 448 yds Top 2 options Targets - 198 Rec - 135 Yards - 2059 New Orleans Saints #5 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Jared Cook - 60 targets, 37 rec, 504 yds Top 2 options Targets - 189 Rec - 144 Yards - 1482 Baltimore Ravens #7 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Willie Snead - 48 targets, 33 rec, 432 yds Top 2 options Targets - 188 Rec - 116 Yards - 1470 Seattle Seahawks #8 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option David Moore - 47 targets, 35 rec, 417 yds Top 2 options Targets - 261 Rec - 183 Yards - 2357 Indianapolis Colts #9 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Michael Pittman Jr. - 61 targets, 40 rec, 503 yds Top 2 options Targets - 164 Rec - 99 Yards - 1391 Las Vegas Raiders #10 ranked scoring offense 3rd most productive receiving option Hunter Renfrow - 77 targets, 56 rec, 656 yds Top 2 options Targets - 227 Rec - 155 Yards - 2092 Average for top 10 scoring offense's 3rd most productive receiving option : Targets - 62 Receptions - 41 Yards - 530 Average for top 10 scoring offense's top 2 most productive receiving options combined : Targets - 212 Receptions - 147 Yards - 1918 This is how Hardman stacks up against the other teams 3rd receiving option Targets - 62 (62 avg) Receptions - 41 (41 avg) Yards - 560 (530 avg) Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce combined Targets - 280 (most in group) Receptions - 192 (2nd most in group) Yards - 2692 (most in group) So what we can see from these stats above is that nothing is up with Mecole Hardman. His targets and reception matched the average of the 9 other top offenses 3rd receiving option and he was above average in yards, but the big huge difference is Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill just happen to be on the same team as him. Those two have 68 more combined targets, 45 more combined receptions, and 774 more combined yards than the others teams top 2 receiving threats. TLDR; Nothing is wrong, he's right in line with the other teams 3rd most productive pass catchers. Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are monsters and the best pass catching duo in a long ass time. PS: Seriously Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce are so good! There was only 11 QBs with more TD passes than those 2 had receiving TDs. PSS: **ing Cam Newton started 15 games and had 45 less passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards in the same amount of games! PSSS: **ing MVP Lamar had 65 more passing yards than Hill and Kelce had rec yards and they tied for the same amount of passing TDs to receiving TDs.
Posts: 20,425

08-22-2021, 01:19 PM	#287
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $185421	Sammy Watkins 2020 stats granted had bruised vagina and missed some games but he was our #2 WR 37 receptions (that means he caught 37 balls) 421 yards (that means he gained 421 yards) 11.4 avg (that means his average yards he gained per catch) 37 long (that means his longest play during the season) 2 TD (that means he had 2 touchdowns for the 2020 season) Mecole Hardman "gadget player" stats 2020 granted he didn't have a bruised vagina and miss some games. 41 receptions 560 yards 13.7 avg 49 long 4 TD now maybe Mecole needed to step it up and take more advantage of opportunity when Sammy was out of games but did y'all see the catch in the back of the endzone against the Saints? I'll take Mecole Hardman as a gadget player or jet sweep kinda guy any time because we are winning ****ing championships and he is part of our success. It's all in y'alls head that he doesn't have chemistry with Patrick Mahomes II but this is the third season for Mecole give him the chance to succeed before calling him a bust. He has game. He has given us opportunities to win games more than he ever has cost us any games. The Super Bowl Patrick didn't have 2 seconds in the pocket there was no pocket so don't blame chemistry when Patrick was running for his life the entire game and that defense crushed our offensive line Tyreek Hill and Kelse had shit game as well. Give the kid a chance, or not, be an asshole just to pound your chest when he makes a mistake and come on here telling everyone how much he sucks. __________________ "Those who don't believe in magic will never find it"
Posts: 56,910

08-22-2021, 01:34 PM	#288
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $185421	It's sad but seems to me that some of you on here rather Mecole fail just to come on here and brag about how right you were. That's just my assumption I could be wrong this is just the internet that Al Gore invented. __________________ "Those who don't believe in magic will never find it"
Posts: 56,910

08-22-2021, 01:43 PM	#289
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $185421	And for the record on my part if a player can beat out Mecole at #2 I'll be happy for him because that would be one hell of a player to outset Mecole and we can still watch Mecole make spectacular gadget plays for touchdowns and have a productive number 2 WR it's a win win. I think we got hungry guys like Pringle and Drob has been around long enough he should have already won it but he is Drob. I like the new kid we drafted he is also going make a mark in the game. Going be fun to watch what we have is a bunch of guys that are going wear down defenses by making each play like its a deep ball but it could be a running play with CEH and the big boys up front. **** I'm stoked for the season. Hate on Mecole watch him make big plays but keep hating on him. __________________ "Those who don't believe in magic will never find it"
Posts: 56,910

08-22-2021, 02:37 PM	#292
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1300345	He plays lazy and stupid at times. It doesn't matter where you put him on the depth chart, the same problems will persist. I don't know what else the coaching staff/Mahomes can do with him outside of accepting he's a nifty little gadget until he pulls his head out of his ass. I'd hoped the absolute travesty of a performance he put on during the Super Bowl would've woken him up somewhat but he's still pulling the same shit thus far in preseason. Very disheartening to watch considering we really need him to step up into that role.
Posts: 42,078

08-22-2021, 02:46 PM	#294
Megatron96 Suupraa Geniuuusss Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: North Phoenix, AZ Casino cash: $-1809600	Hardman has only been playing WR for 4 years (2 in college/2 in the NFL), iirc. This is the start of his 5th season as a WR, right? And last season was laced with COVID, and everything that went with that. Still willing to cut him a break, for now. Also, at least two of those passes vs. the Cards were uncatchable, by anyone not named Calvin Johnson. __________________ *“Some ideas are so stupid only intellectuals believe them.”*- George Orwell Steven "Spags" Spagnuolo is my Adopt-A-Chief!!!
Posts: 34,919

08-22-2021, 02:59 PM	#295
Sassy Squatch The man you could post like. Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1300345	Yeah, he can't be bothered to run through his routes or turn his head to look for the ball because of COVID...
Posts: 42,078

08-22-2021, 03:01 PM	#296
Molitoth Mahomes Fanboi Join Date: Apr 2004 Casino cash: $224969	Won a SuperBowl his Rookie year... I wonder how many of those scenarios allow players to lose a bit of desire to put in that extra work.
Posts: 20,295

08-22-2021, 03:08 PM	#298
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $185421	The thing about an Andy Reid offense is that it is ever evolving meaning he designs plays with the players in mind not the system. Guys move around presnap so a guy can line up as a #2 WR but really then turns into a tailback and flips the ball to Kelce for a touchdown in the endzone. Obviously that's a made up play but it's an example of what Andy Reid does for his offense. Once you predict it it's going evolve. So Hardman fits perfect in Andy Reid offense and he can be a gadget player & or #2 and still help us win **ing games so why the ** you guys complaining? I really don't get the hate for Hardman just because of his draft slot wasn't his fault Veach pulled the trigger to get him a raw WR with lots of potential. Hardman needs coached up and disciplined he has both of that in camp and players making them accountable for each other. __________________ "Those who don't believe in magic will never find it"
Posts: 56,910

08-22-2021, 03:12 PM	#299
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $185421	If Hardman Sucks Out Loud this season he will get cut and replaced by Veach it's as simple as that. Until then let's watch these guys put on a show and win some ****ing games. __________________ "Those who don't believe in magic will never find it"
Posts: 56,910

08-22-2021, 03:19 PM	#300
ThyKingdomCome15 MVP Join Date: Jun 2019 Casino cash: $-549600	Kelce and Hill have tremendous chemistry with Mahomes. That's what's missing. I'm not sure it can be fixed honestly. We need a highly athletic instinctive WR. That's what Patrick likes. Mecole just doesn't have that feel.
Posts: 8,642