If the Chiefs took WR Christian Watson at 30…

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And Georgia Tech ran the triple option.

But when they had Calvin Johnson, they got him the ball. Damaryius Thomas went for 1,200 a few years later.

If you have a great player, you use him, regardless of what your 'system' is. NDSU just flat didn't. And that's at a level of competition where Megatron is still dominant, but not the 'first round generational talent playing against dudes that can barely put their own pads on' discrepancy.

If this guy were that good he'd be a cheat code. And frankly why are we just NOW hearing about him as a first day pick? Guy had a 1st round quarterback he played with for 2 seasons. If nothing else when teams/analysis are watching those tapes they'd see Watson. Yet it wasn't until he blew up at the combine that anyone was talking about him this high.

If you have Randy Moss playing against FCS opponents down there, SOMEBODY is gonna notice. We're not talking about Jerry Rice at Mississippi Valley in the early 80s - there are eyes everywhere.

And for all the talk of his perfect RAS score - guy didn't even run a 3-cone or short shuttle and that's where you worry about his length. Moreover, it's so arbitrary. Sure, he jumped out of the gym and ran really fast - so did Chris Conley but when they say "one of 3 guys to ever score that high with his height" - that's because they put the cutoff one inch taller than Conley at 6'3". Conley actually had longer arms. He had a better broad jump, much better vertical.

Watson isn't a unicorn. He's very athletic but there are guys like him almost every year at 6'2". And since he didn't DO the tests that might expose the issues associated with him being 6'4", I'm pretty hard pressed to just hand-waive them.

Because again, if we're putting all this stock into the stopwatch, why are we just ignoring the fact that he elected not to run those drills? There's absolutely a reason for that.

And again - I'm not saying he has NO ability. I'm saying he'd be a solid 3rd round pick and a possible pick in the late 2nd. For an FCS receiver that's just damn near unheard of.

A few things...

First, re: Calvin Johnson

1. I've seen a few others say this, too... but Georgia Tech didn't run the triple option when Calvin Johnson was there. Chan Gailey was his coach, and they ran a multiple set, with lot of shotgun and early spread offense concepts.

2. Watson was his team's leading receiver as a sophomore, junior, and senior, just like Megatron was in his 3 years at Georgia Tech. They both played 38 games in those 3 years. You know what the difference in their receiving stats are? 2 catches/game (4.5 in an offense that threw 30 times a game instead of 2.5 in an offense that threw 20 times a game) and 25 yards per game.

Neither one of those offenses morphed into feeding the pig, as it was. Gailey ran it more than he threw it every year he had the biggest unicorn in college sports history.

Switching to that topic...

You're familiar with how successful that NDSU coaching staff has been and what a powerhouse that program is, right? They've won what, 9 of the past 11 championships at that level or something like that?

Even with Trey Lance they didn't alter their run-pass ratio. They have a system and the system and program seem to trump individual talent. Kind of like Nebraska in the Devaney/Osborne days, I guess.

Let's not act like coaching staffs don't make mistakes or stubbornly stick to their system, especially at the college level. Ole Miss had DK Metcalf and AJ Brown at the same time and somehow didn't give the ball to one of them every down.

Regarding his combine stuff...

Watson did run the 3-cone and shuttle at his pro day and put up good numbers in those, as well (above-average shuttle at 4.19 and 3-cone was above average as well at 6.96).

Finally, regarding why we're just hearing about him...

Well, before he got to the senior bowl and combine and started getting individual notice, he was a big, fast dude on a team that has never thrown it even 1 out of 3 downs while he has been there. Hard to get notice that way beyond the FCS level.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

A few things...

First, re: Calvin Johnson

1. I've seen a few others say this, too... but Georgia Tech didn't run the triple option when Calvin Johnson was there. Chan Gailey was his coach, and they ran a multiple set, with lot of shotgun and early spread offense concepts.

2. Watson was his team's leading receiver as a sophomore, junior, and senior, just like Megatron was in his 3 years at Georgia Tech. They both played 38 games in those 3 years. You know what the difference in their receiving stats are? 2 catches/game (4.5 in an offense that threw 30 times a game instead of 2.5 in an offense that threw 20 times a game) and 25 yards per game.

Neither one of those offenses morphed into feeding the pig, as it was. Gailey ran it more than he threw it every year he had the biggest unicorn in college sports history.

Switching to that topic...

You're familiar with how successful that NDSU coaching staff has been and what a powerhouse that program is, right? They've won what, 9 of the past 11 championships at that level or something like that?

Even with Trey Lance they didn't alter their run-pass ratio. They have a system and the system and program seem to trump individual talent. Kind of like Nebraska in the Devaney/Osborne days, I guess.

Let's not act like coaching staffs don't make mistakes or stubbornly stick to their system, especially at the college level. Ole Miss had DK Metcalf and AJ Brown at the same time and somehow didn't give the ball to one of them every down.

Regarding his combine stuff...

Watson did run the 3-cone and shuttle at his pro day and put up good numbers in those, as well (above-average shuttle at 4.19 and 3-cone was above average as well at 6.96).

Finally, regarding why we're just hearing about him...

Well, before he got to the senior bowl and combine and started getting individual notice, he was a big, fast dude on a team that has never thrown it even 1 out of 3 downs while he has been there. Hard to get notice that way beyond the FCS level.

True story regarding the option. Even still, Georgia Tech only threw for 2,400 yards that season and Calvin was responsible for 1,200 of those yards and 15 scores.

While they weren't an option team, they were very much a run first team that found ways to get the ball to their superstar.

Regarding the pro day numbers - I just don't trust 'em. Never have. With even a 10th of a second grade inflation on that stuff he'd have forgettable figures there and just be another straight line guy for many.

Finally, as to getting noticed, I think you're absolutely right for a 2nd day pick. It's really hard for one of those guys to get noticed.

But if we're talking a 1st round talent, a guy who's athleticism is so unreal that we'll project it to NFL performance, performance against FCS schools be damned, I still think that WOULD stand out. That WOULD get noticed. Especially when he played for a program that had a guy that was getting scouts to come out.

If he's more of a 3rd round pick than a 1st round pick, then yeah - he could stay under the radar. But I have a hard time believing that this guy would be a 1st round pick and just explode onto the scene after flying so far below the radar for as long as he did.

Again - I don't want this to be another "YOU HATED CHRIS JONES!!" thing when I said he was a mid-2nd round player. No, I didn't say he was a 6'4" pile of shit. I even said for SOME teams using a pick around 50 would be a fine idea. This is for an FCS kid with nominal production at that level. I'm CLEARLY pricing a lot of these considerations into my calculus here.

I just don't think he'd be a good pick for us in the 2nd and I think he'd be an actively bad one in the 1st given our needs, the importance of us hitting on these picks and the bust potential that necessarily comes with some of the red flags I've discussed.

[kcbubb]

Wow. Great knowledge of history. I love chiefs planet.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

A few things...

First, re: Calvin Johnson

1. I've seen a few others say this, too... but Georgia Tech didn't run the triple option when Calvin Johnson was there. Chan Gailey was his coach, and they ran a multiple set, with lot of shotgun and early spread offense concepts.

2. Watson was his team's leading receiver as a sophomore, junior, and senior, just like Megatron was in his 3 years at Georgia Tech. They both played 38 games in those 3 years. You know what the difference in their receiving stats are? 2 catches/game (4.5 in an offense that threw 30 times a game instead of 2.5 in an offense that threw 20 times a game) and 25 yards per game.

Neither one of those offenses morphed into feeding the pig, as it was. Gailey ran it more than he threw it every year he had the biggest unicorn in college sports history.

Switching to that topic...

You're familiar with how successful that NDSU coaching staff has been and what a powerhouse that program is, right? They've won what, 9 of the past 11 championships at that level or something like that?

Even with Trey Lance they didn't alter their run-pass ratio. They have a system and the system and program seem to trump individual talent. Kind of like Nebraska in the Devaney/Osborne days, I guess.

Let's not act like coaching staffs don't make mistakes or stubbornly stick to their system, especially at the college level. Ole Miss had DK Metcalf and AJ Brown at the same time and somehow didn't give the ball to one of them every down.

Regarding his combine stuff...

Watson did run the 3-cone and shuttle at his pro day and put up good numbers in those, as well (above-average shuttle at 4.19 and 3-cone was above average as well at 6.96).

Finally, regarding why we're just hearing about him...

Well, before he got to the senior bowl and combine and started getting individual notice, he was a big, fast dude on a team that has never thrown it even 1 out of 3 downs while he has been there. Hard to get notice that way beyond the FCS level.