Things I think it's time for:

[Chris Meck]

1. You can't trot Ammendola out again. You just can't. It'd be mutiny. I don't care what you do, you have to cut him and sign someone else. I'd go for two every time and have Reid kick off before I did that again.

2. Justin Watson needs way more snaps. Yes, he could've caught that one ball today, but he's big, he's fast, hes a physical match-up problem, and he usually catches the ball. He was inches away from another big TD today. Play him.

3. It's time to get Pacheco more touches. The midget squad isn't getting it done. It's not all their fault, but at least Pacheco is big and strong enough to maybe break some tackles.

4. It's time to bench Wylie. Wanegho can't be worse, and might have upside. Just do it, for accountability's sake if nothing else.

5. I think it's time to force feed more snaps to Moore. I don't want him returning punts anymore. Put Hardman there, you know what Hardman is, and he's not a route running WR. At least he might break a PR.

[O.city]

Yeah, he had MVS running wide open for a TD.

You can't miss those throws.

[ToxSocks]

It's time for the Chiefs (and the ****ing fans) to start taking the WR position seriously. Quit throwing ****ing spare parts at this thing and invest in the damn position.

3 Years ago this wasn't even a conversation. Somewhere along the way the Chiefs and the fans convinced themselves that the GB/Aaron Rodgers model was the way to go. WTF.

[O.city]

Two 2nd round picks isn't "spare parts".

You can't invest high picks every where.

But it's also why you don't waste these on a ****ing RB.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Two 2nd round picks isn't "spare parts".

You can't invest high picks every where.

But it's also why you don't waste these on a ****ing RB.

Agreed - the amount of the investment hasn't been unreasonable (not like when we went 10 years without spending a pick on the 1st or 2nd day on off-ball linebackers).

But we have Mecole Hardman and MEH instead of Terry McLaurin and Tee Higgins. It hasn't been a plan problem - it's been an execution issue.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

1. You can't trot Ammendola out again. You just can't. It'd be mutiny. I don't care what you do, you have to cut him and sign someone else. I'd go for two every time and have Reid kick off before I did that again.

2. Justin Watson needs way more snaps. Yes, he could've caught that one ball today, but he's big, he's fast, hes a physical match-up problem, and he usually catches the ball. He was inches away from another big TD today. Play him.

3. It's time to get Pacheco more touches. The midget squad isn't getting it done. It's not all their fault, but at least Pacheco is big and strong enough to maybe break some tackles.

4. It's time to bench Wylie. Wanegho can't be worse, and might have upside. Just do it, for accountability's sake if nothing else.

5. I think it's time to force feed more snaps to Moore. I don't want him returning punts anymore. Put Hardman there, you know what Hardman is, and he's not a route running WR. At least he might break a PR.

I think you're overreacting on Skyy Moore.

Listen, we all knew and said consistently that there would be "growing pains" with the rookies. But you guys simply don't think growing pains translate to losses. They do. We were talking about the growing pains being in the secondary, but turns out it was special teams rookies that cost us with Moore and Pacheco. Ride with rookies, and they will cost you games sometimes.

Moore, prior to this game, consistently showed good hands and decision-making in punt returns. Today's performance doesn't change that unless he just melts down in the face of his mistakes. Hardman is great for kickoff returns because there's no decision-making to be made, but he has a history of failing us on punt returns, making bad decisions or getting himself clocked. I have a shorter leash on Pacheco's kick returning, however, because Hardman does it well enough. Moore on punt returns is harder to duplicate.

We need to differentiate between the problems that are flukey, and the problems that are longer lasting.

I'm fine with booting Ammendola, but there's no Butker out there; whoever we sign is going to be at least the 33rd best kicker in the NFL. Ammendola is not going to cost us a Super Bowl, Rashad Fenton will. Moore screwing up a punt in Week 3 isn't going to cost us a Super Bowl, Andrew Wylie will. Chris Jones talking smack isn't going to cost us a Super Bowl, Marques Valdez-Scantling will.

The Chiefs have a protection issue, a receiving issue, and a Fenton issue. These are the things that will cost us a Super Bowl. Not Ammendola (although, fine: replace him).

Do the Chiefs have an answer for the protection issue? Call me crazy, but I think Lucas Niang is more than just a figment of my imagination. I think by Week 12 he could be the answer at RT. But who knows, maybe Wenogho is a better finger to put in the dam than Wylie.

Do the Chiefs have an answer for the receiving issue? We can't know that yet, because Moore/MVS/Watson/Schuster need more weeks in the offense. We'll have a better idea by Week 8.

Do the Chiefs have an answer for Fenton? I think they do, and that's putting him 4th on the depth chart when McDuffie returns.

[OKchiefs]

The problem is the man responsible for drafting Hardman and CEH early in the draft. This team with McLaurin and Tee Higgins would be dangerous. Both were well known talents before the draft so it’s not a “hindsight is 20/20” kind of thing. Anyone on this forum could have picked those two just by reading a draft magazine.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by O.city

Two 2nd round picks isn't "spare parts".

You can't invest high picks every where.

But it's also why you don't waste these on a ****ing RB.

So two late 2nd picks that haven't panned out, a slow brokedick from Pitt (who replaced him with actual young talent) MVS, part of last year's "Aaron Rodgers has no receivers" brigade and a 5th string from Tampa.

It's ****ing thrash.

Some of us KNEW it was trash from the get go.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

It's time for the Chiefs (and the ****ing fans) to start taking the WR position seriously. Quit throwing ****ing spare parts at this thing and invest in the damn position.

3 Years ago this wasn't even a conversation. Somewhere along the way the Chiefs and the fans convinced themselves that the GB/Aaron Rodgers model was the way to go. WTF.

But that was always the way it was supposed to be.

Three years ago Mahomes was on his rookie deal and we had just started paying Hill real money and still had the high value Watkins contract.

Fast forward and we've finally traded Hill for picks and cap space, Watkins rolled off, and we replaced them with JuJu, MVS, and two 2nd round picks. Not to mention also signing the most expensive guard on the market, trading a high pick for a LT, and drafting a center in the 2nd round.

We've invested plenty for Mahomes to succeed and the idea that we should focus on premium WR talent - rather than taking fliers on guys with upside - given the going rate just isn't tremendously realistic when building a complete team. Mahomes should be good enough to elevate talent.

We just traded Hill this offseason. What would you have done immediately to have replaced that production? And please keep in mind the other holes it would open up on the team while answering.

[O.city]

I think it was also a week 3 "dont' show much, get a win and get out of town" kind of thing.

FLukey shit happens in a football game. Move on.

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Agreed - the amount of the investment hasn't been unreasonable (not like when we went 10 years without spending a pick on the 1st or 2nd day on off-ball linebackers).

But we have Mecole Hardman and MEH instead of Terry McLaurin and Tee Higgins. It hasn't been a plan problem - it's been an execution issue.

This, took the words right out of my mouth.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think you're overreacting on Skyy Moore.

Listen, we all knew and said consistently that there would be "growing pains" with the rookies. But you guys simply don't think growing pains translate to losses. They do. We were talking about the growing pains being in the secondary, but turns out it was special teams rookies that cost us with Moore and Pacheco. Ride with rookies, and they will cost you games sometimes.

Moore, prior to this game, consistently showed good hands and decision-making in punt returns. Today's performance doesn't change that unless he just melts down in the face of his mistakes. Hardman is great for kickoff returns because there's no decision-making to be made, but he has a history of failing us on punt returns, making bad decisions or getting himself clocked. I have a shorter leash on Pacheco's kick returning, however, because Hardman does it well enough. Moore on punt returns is harder to duplicate.

We need to differentiate between the problems that are flukey, and the problems that are longer lasting.

Nailed it.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

But that was always the way it was supposed to be.

No, no it's not.

Mahomes was at his PEEK when he had premium talent to throw the ball to. Watch Herbert and Allen and those guys have dudes who make plays for their QB.

At some point Chiefs kingdom convinced themselves that Mahomes has to stay in the pocket. (NOT what made him special). That Mahomes has to play in the structure of the offense. (NOT what made him special). That Mahomes has to be this dink and dunk QB because apparently we're incapable of anything else. (NOT what made him special).

Everyone convinced themselves that if you give Mahomes an army of Albert Wilson's he'll do the rest!

If you're going to spend money on everything but WR then you had better draft well. And well....they haven't draft worth a shit at WR.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I think you're overreacting on Skyy Moore.

Listen, we all knew and said consistently that there would be "growing pains" with the rookies. But you guys simply don't think growing pains translate to losses. They do. We were talking about the growing pains being in the secondary, but turns out it was special teams rookies that cost us with Moore and Pacheco. Ride with rookies, and they will cost you games sometimes.

Moore, prior to this game, consistently showed good hands and decision-making in punt returns. Today's performance doesn't change that unless he just melts down in the face of his mistakes. Hardman is great for kickoff returns because there's no decision-making to be made, but he has a history of failing us on punt returns, making bad decisions or getting himself clocked. I have a shorter leash on Pacheco's kick returning, however, because Hardman does it well enough. Moore on punt returns is harder to duplicate.

Sorry but I'm not seeing it.

Moore had a few bobbles/misreads on punts prior to the game. Some have mentioned it in previous threads even before yesterdays disaster.

He's not looked comfortable returning at all thus far, IMO. If you want him on KRs to get some experience and get a feel for the speed of the NFL - sure, that's fine.

But you can't have a skittish returner on punts. It put 7 points on the board AND killed the next offensive possession. That's a big big problem and I don't think it was nearly as unforeseeable as you do.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by O.city

I think it was also a week 3 "dont' show much, get a win and get out of town" kind of thing.

FLukey shit happens in a football game. Move on.

I am of two minds on this issue.

First of all, I think I'd agree with you in normal circumstances. I think the Chiefs came in trying to keep their cards close to their chest for the Bucs, and should have won the game if it wasn't for uncharacteristic flukes like the Jones penalty, the Moore muff, multiple kicks missed, and Kelce dropping a TD. So, no, this game won't cost us the Super Bowl.

But this is the hardest schedule I can ever remember the Chiefs having. We have Tom Brady and the Bills in weeks 4 and 6. It's a murderer's row; we need to win all the "winnable" games, and they screwed that up today.

[The Franchise]

CEH just needs to be done. You can’t tell me that he’s somehow better than any of the other 3 RBs on this roster at this point.