Things I think it's time for:

[Chris Meck]

1. You can't trot Ammendola out again. You just can't. It'd be mutiny. I don't care what you do, you have to cut him and sign someone else. I'd go for two every time and have Reid kick off before I did that again.

2. Justin Watson needs way more snaps. Yes, he could've caught that one ball today, but he's big, he's fast, hes a physical match-up problem, and he usually catches the ball. He was inches away from another big TD today. Play him.

3. It's time to get Pacheco more touches. The midget squad isn't getting it done. It's not all their fault, but at least Pacheco is big and strong enough to maybe break some tackles.

4. It's time to bench Wylie. Wanegho can't be worse, and might have upside. Just do it, for accountability's sake if nothing else.

5. I think it's time to force feed more snaps to Moore. I don't want him returning punts anymore. Put Hardman there, you know what Hardman is, and he's not a route running WR. At least he might break a PR.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by -King-

It makes no sense why we don't run more screens. Haven't made sense in years and especially now. Clyde actually looks good receiving this year. We also have McKinnon whose a good receiver and has been good on screens and apparently Pacheco has good hands. Use that shit. Get your lineman out in space. Slow down the pass rush. That will open the offense up a lot.

But like what was posted about what Chris Simms said earlier, we're playing with no plan.

This. Playcalling needs to get a lot better.

[ChiefsFanatic]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Pat also needs to realize he can't extend every play. What would a game look like where Pat has no choice but get rid of the ball in 4 seconds? Just quick plays and distribute?



It can be done. Those quick slants and routes can be called. It really is a team effort.

I also think that Reid and EB are doing the same shit they did to Patrick in the SB against the Bucs.

The plays they are calling are absolutely screwing Mahomes and the offensive line over.

There are quick hitting slants and crossing play calls that would take pressure off the offensive line, and allow Mahomes to get into a rhythm without feeling like he has to protect himself on every passing play.

Yet, Reid and EB continue to call plays that have Mahomes holding the ball waiting for something to come open down field.

Not only are the plays they are calling hindering the offense, but it puts a clock in Mahomes' head, and it causes him to move in the pocket, or flat out escape the pocket, when he does not need to, and that fact hurts our chances of running successful plays later in games.

I very much believe that EB needs to be stripped of the OC title, and that role given back to Matt Nagy. Even if EB doesn't truly call plays, it's obvious that EB and Mahomes are no longer simpatico.

They have had words on the sidelines in 3 or our last 4 games, the AFC Championship game against Cincy, the Chargers game, and now the Colts game. Something needs to change, and it isn't Patrick Mahomes II.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But here's the problem with your theory - that's the only thing that's working.

When he stands in the pocket and these guys try to get open, they just...don't. Or JJSS half-asses a throw into traffic and it gets deflected for an interception.

Mahomes moving around is creating angles and throwing lanes that don't otherwise exist. And he HAS to do that because when he doesn't, his guys aren't winning reps and the windows aren't there.

At times he feels phantom pressure and scrambles out. But I don't think that's what is happening right now - I think he's scrambling out to change throwing lanes and create plays.

And until his WRs show ANY ability to get open in scheme and on time, that's what he's going to have to keep doing.

100%

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by ChiefsFanatic

I also think that Reid and EB are doing the same shit they did to Patrick in the SB against the Bucs.

The plays they are calling are absolutely screwing Mahomes and the offensive line over.

There are quick hitting slants and crossing play calls that would take pressure off the offensive line, and allow Mahomes to get into a rhythm without feeling like he has to protect himself on every passing play.

Yet, Reid and EB continue to call plays that have Mahomes holding the ball waiting for something to come open down field.

Not only are the plays they are calling hindering the offense, but it puts a clock in Mahomes' head, and it causes him to move in the pocket, or flat out escape the pocket, when he does not need to, and that fact hurts our chances of running successful plays later in games.

I very much believe that EB needs to be stripped of the OC title, and that role given back to Matt Nagy. Even if EB doesn't truly call plays, it's obvious that EB and Mahomes are no longer simpatico.

They have had words on the sidelines in 3 or our last 4 games, the AFC Championship game against Cincy, the Chargers game, and now the Colts game. Something needs to change, and it isn't Patrick Mahomes II.

Sent from my moto g stylus 5G using Tapatalk

Yup, and that’s what bugs me about the mvs Hardman thing. They seem to march out speed guys instead of guys who can open up quickly. It means we didn’t learn anything from last year.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah, he had MVS running wide open for a TD.

You can't miss those throws.

I missed 50% of this game so not sure exactly which play this was but...

Mahomes misses deep over the shoulder throws more than almost any elite QB in the league. He just doesn't have the touch sometimes. He's better when he can hit deep crosses etc where he can put some zip on the ball.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Agreed - the amount of the investment hasn't been unreasonable (not like when we went 10 years without spending a pick on the 1st or 2nd day on off-ball linebackers).

But we have Mecole Hardman and MEH instead of Terry McLaurin and Tee Higgins. It hasn't been a plan problem - it's been an execution issue.

The Tyreek unknown forced the Mecole pick, a perceived Tyreek clone... It would be interesting to see what direction we would have went if it wasn't an issue... I don't think we would have went receiver.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

This ongoing debate that DJ and I are having about Moore goes back to the draft process.

As for the lack of playing time 3 weeks in, I've addressed that multiple times. If it's an ongoing issue throughout the season, then fine, but I don't suspect it will be, which is why I think a lot of the talk about his lack of snaps is a typical CP overreaction.

Do we once AGAIN need to clarify my position in re: Moore?

The part where I said the guy is likely to have a very good career? Like, 6-8 years and 4-5K yards with 400ish catches? Or where I comped him to Sterling Shepard with a shot at being Golden Tate?

King is 100% right - your issue is that you see any real time discussion or {gasp} criticism of a player as some wholesale dismissal of anything he'll ever be. And there were people trying to call this kid the best WR prospect in the !@#$ing draft and when I have the audacity to point out he wasn't among the first dozen taken for a reason, you feel honor bound to paint me into some corner. And I'm the one that needs to dial it down a peg? Get the **** outta here with that.

I'm begging the Chiefs to start the guy because I think this WR room is ass. And is that a good place to find ourselves? Oh hell no - asking a guy with obvious flaws to be the 'savior' of a contender as a rookie. But shit, if I bother to point out that Brett Veach assembled this WR room and put us in this position, that'll put your goddamn panties in a twist as well.

You will not allow criticism, no matter how tepid or how measured, of ANYONE associated with the Chiefs until such time as it becomes such an overwhelming consensus that you can either ride the wave or be swept away by it. Even when the criticism is literally nothing more than a snapshot analysis - which is almost exclusively what Detox and I have offered of Moore to this point while simultaneously voicing our hope and belief that there's more there to offer.

Its ludicrous. But keep on patting yourself on the back for being 'open-minded' I guess. I just don't understand why you feel as though you have some unassailable high ground here when anyone deigns to say "hey, this looks like a slot WR" or "man, he must be more raw than we thought if he's not seeing the field yet..." when there has been exactly ZERO evidence actually presented to this point by anyone to disprove either position.

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

The Tyreek unknown forced the Mecole pick, a perceived Tyreek clone... It would be interesting to see what direction we would have went if it wasn't an issue... I don't think we would have went receiver.

It was still a dumb thought process thinking you HAVE to have a Tyreek clone. But hey, it's also the same brain trust that thought you could take fat **** Breeland Speaks and make him a 3-4 OLB, or the ones who thought a tackle with known athletic limitations could play left tackle in a passing offense. There's a whole lot that hasn't made sense about the team building process, like building an elite interior OL while failing to field decent tackles, or drafting a RB in the first round. The results clearly speak for themselves.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

They are playing like Tyreek is still here and they shouldn’t be

Yup. And Schwartz and Fisher.

This is just much different personnel and it should be treated accordingly. They need to dumb it down, dirty it up, and battle through.

That's not to say turn into a bunch of ground and pound mongoloids - but they do need to change their running style and see what they can do to convert to a more conventional drop-back and PA style passing game.

And literally every single member of this staff would eviscerate me in terms of pure football knowledge, right down to the water boys. So it makes me wonder if hubris isn't at the heart of it.

Because NOBODY is immune from getting cut down by their pride.

[LongSufferingToady]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Time for......

1. Toub to be fired.

2. Someone to get Andy some new pants. He has shit these horribly.

3. Jones to shut the **** up.

4. Bieniemy's role to be significantly lessened.

5. Butker's ankle to heal.

If on #4 you mean fired, I'm with you.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Do we once AGAIN need to clarify my position in re: Moore?

The part where I said the guy is likely to have a very good career? Like, 6-8 years and 4-5K yards with 400ish catches? Or where I comped him to Sterling Shepard with a shot at being Golden Tate?

King is 100% right - your issue is that you see any real time discussion or {gasp} criticism of a player as some wholesale dismissal of anything he'll ever be. And there were people trying to call this kid the best WR prospect in the !@#$ing draft and when I have the audacity to point out he wasn't among the first dozen taken for a reason, you feel honor bound to paint me into some corner. And I'm the one that needs to dial it down a peg? Get the **** outta here with that.

I'm begging the Chiefs to start the guy because I think this WR room is ass. And is that a good place to find ourselves? Oh hell no - asking a guy with obvious flaws to be the 'savior' of a contender as a rookie. But shit, if I bother to point out that Brett Veach assembled this WR room and put us in this position, that'll put your goddamn panties in a twist as well.

You will not allow criticism, no matter how tepid or how measured, of ANYONE associated with the Chiefs until such time as it becomes such an overwhelming consensus that you can either ride the wave or be swept away by it. Even when the criticism is literally nothing more than a snapshot analysis - which is almost exclusively what Detox and I have offered of Moore to this point while simultaneously voicing our hope and belief that there's more there to offer.

Its ludicrous. But keep on patting yourself on the back for being 'open-minded' I guess. I just don't understand why you feel as though you have some unassailable high ground here when anyone deigns to say "hey, this looks like a slot WR" or "man, he must be more raw than we thought if he's not seeing the field yet..." when there has been exactly ZERO evidence actually presented to this point by anyone to disprove either position.

Not getting in to the disagreement here, but I do think people massively underestimated the need for a WR picked early in the draft. Yes, Moore was picked after half a dozen other WRs, because we waited until the 2nd round to pull the trigger.

A lot of people here decided DL was the problem (not wrong, it's one of them) and we should be using multiple picks there. Sure, but don't expect immediate or guaranteed returns with your 2nd round WR. Not saying you are of course.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

1. You can't trot Ammendola out again. You just can't. It'd be mutiny. I don't care what you do, you have to cut him and sign someone else. I'd go for two every time and have Reid kick off before I did that again.

2. Justin Watson needs way more snaps. Yes, he could've caught that one ball today, but he's big, he's fast, hes a physical match-up problem, and he usually catches the ball. He was inches away from another big TD today. Play him.

3. It's time to get Pacheco more touches. The midget squad isn't getting it done. It's not all their fault, but at least Pacheco is big and strong enough to maybe break some tackles.

4. It's time to bench Wylie. Wanegho can't be worse, and might have upside. Just do it, for accountability's sake if nothing else.

5. I think it's time to force feed more snaps to Moore. I don't want him returning punts anymore. Put Hardman there, you know what Hardman is, and he's not a route running WR. At least he might break a PR.

FWIW, Wanegho had a really high grade on PFF. Much higher than Wylie’s.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Do we once AGAIN need to clarify my position in re: Moore?

The part where I said the guy is likely to have a very good career? Like, 6-8 years and 4-5K yards with 400ish catches? Or where I comped him to Sterling Shepard with a shot at being Golden Tate?

King is 100% right - your issue is that you see any real time discussion or {gasp} criticism of a player as some wholesale dismissal of anything he'll ever be. And there were people trying to call this kid the best WR prospect in the !@#$ing draft and when I have the audacity to point out he wasn't among the first dozen taken for a reason, you feel honor bound to paint me into some corner. And I'm the one that needs to dial it down a peg? Get the **** outta here with that.

I'm begging the Chiefs to start the guy because I think this WR room is ass. And is that a good place to find ourselves? Oh hell no - asking a guy with obvious flaws to be the 'savior' of a contender as a rookie. But shit, if I bother to point out that Brett Veach assembled this WR room and put us in this position, that'll put your goddamn panties in a twist as well.

You will not allow criticism, no matter how tepid or how measured, of ANYONE associated with the Chiefs until such time as it becomes such an overwhelming consensus that you can either ride the wave or be swept away by it. Even when the criticism is literally nothing more than a snapshot analysis - which is almost exclusively what Detox and I have offered of Moore to this point while simultaneously voicing our hope and belief that there's more there to offer.

Its ludicrous. But keep on patting yourself on the back for being 'open-minded' I guess. I just don't understand why you feel as though you have some unassailable high ground here when anyone deigns to say "hey, this looks like a slot WR" or "man, he must be more raw than we thought if he's not seeing the field yet..." when there has been exactly ZERO evidence actually presented to this point by anyone to disprove either position.

This seems like a far cry from your Moore takes going back to the draft.

You said guys like Moore get drafted in the 3rd every year, and he was essentially a reach in the 2nd. You called him a WR3 at best, and you seemed to think it was more likely than not that he wouldn't even be that.

Seems like your opinion on him has changed significantly. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's because of the flashes he shaped in TC and preseason?

I don't necessarily think that's a bad/harsh take at all, but it's clearly different from your takes before the draft.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

FWIW, Wanegho had a really high grade on PFF. Much higher than Wylie’s.

Ha, as I said, let's make the Prince a King! Liked him in the draft for the Eagles and I like him now! Obviously he's had, like, 8 snaps so not sure we can make THAT much of a comparison. But honestly, f**k it, he's still raw but he moves better and if his play strength is improved then throw him in.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Things we're late in doing: Showing EB the door and pretending our gimmick play calling doesn't need a running game to go with it. Also, get Skyy on the field and put Mecole back on PR duties. Andy just isn't in syn with this team right now. I know it's early but I'm starting to wonder if Andy is losing his touch in dealing with personelle.