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Old 11-15-2022, 03:24 PM  
Vegas_Dave Vegas_Dave is offline
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Josh Allen is Philip Rivers 2.0
So watching the Bills lose to the Vikings, it hit me watching Josh Allen on the bench pouting that he is a less mature version of Philip Rivers. This made me go on a stat finding mission to compare Allen to Rivers... and in in order to be fair to the media perception (& to prove what we all already know), compared Mahomes' stats as well.

We all KNOW that Mahomes is better than Allen (and if you don't, please look again). But the next time you have some Bills lover arguing, here are the facts...

Since both Mahomes & Allen have 4.5 years worth of stats to compare, I think its fair... and I grabbed the first 5 full years of Rivers' stats for the comparison. These are all averaged out based on the the actual number of games played (Excel spreadsheet available if anyone wants to double check). Here is what came to be:

# of Games Played for stat comparison:
Rivers: 80 games from 2006 - 2010
Allen: 70 games from 2018 - 2022
Mahomes: 71 from 2018-2022

Completion/Attempt/Comp%/Yards - per Game Average
Rivers: 19.34 / 30.31 / 63.79% / 243.91
Allen: 20.93 / 33.43 / 62.61% / 240.67
Mahomes: 24.97 / 37.69 / 66.26% / 304.83

TD/TD% per Att/Int/Int% per Att - per Game Average
Rivers: 1.69 TD / 5.57% / .71 INT / 2.35%
Allen: 1.76 TD / 5.26% / .81 INT / 2.39%
Mahomes: 2.48 TD / 6.58% / .61 INT / 1.61%

First Down %/Avg Rating/Avg QBR/Sacks/Sack Yds - per Game Average
Rivers: 39.46% / 97.22 Rating / 65.84 QBR / 1.71 sacks / 10.65 sk yds
Allen: 36.54% / 89.84 Rating / 62.16 QBR / 1.94 sacks / 12.37 sk yds
Mahomes: 42.86% / 106.38 Rating / 75.38 QBR / 1.54 sacks / 9.89 sk yds

Josh Allen is a Good QB - but he is NOT Mahomes. He is Philip Rivers 2.0 - but a little less mature in my opinion. Rivers had 2 years of sitting. So Average Age for them is

Rivers: 27
Allen: 24
Mahomes: 25

So maybe we will see Allen mature a little more, but he is no Mahomes.

*all stats compiled from www.pro-football-reference.com
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Old 11-15-2022, 06:42 PM   #61
Bl00dyBizkitz Bl00dyBizkitz is offline
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I think I posted on a similar thread but ill just post similarily here.

Josh Allen already has more postseason success than Rivers ever did, and its not for a lack of quality teams the Chargers had.

Allen is an elite QB and if it weren't for the most powerful dose of Mahomes Magic and a coin flip, we lose in the Divisional and the narrative is MUCH different. Its quite early to be counting him out simply because the Bills have lost a few games. It's not like Mahomes wasn't THE reason why we've lost games in the past, similar to whats going on with Allen right now.

Its not like I love Allen, I hate his guts, but I respect his talent enough to know its way too early to act like Josh Allen will now suddenly fall off a cliff for the rest of his career.
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Old 11-15-2022, 06:44 PM   #62
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Old 11-15-2022, 06:44 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Bl00dyBizkitz View Post
I think I posted on a similar thread but ill just post similarily here.

Josh Allen already has more postseason success than Rivers ever did, and its not for a lack of quality teams the Chargers had.

Allen is an elite QB and if it weren't for the most powerful dose of Mahomes Magic and a coin flip, we lose in the Divisional and the narrative is MUCH different. Its quite early to be counting him out simply because the Bills have lost a few games. It's not like Mahomes wasn't THE reason why we've lost games in the past, similar to whats going on with Allen right now.

Its not like I love Allen, I hate his guts, but I respect his talent enough to know its way too early to act like Josh Allen will now suddenly fall off a cliff for the rest of his career.
I don't think anyone is arguing he's not a top 5 QB.

His problem is he started in the league the same year and in the same conference as a truly generational talent in Mahomes.
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Old 11-15-2022, 06:51 PM   #64
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I don't think anyone is arguing he's not a top 5 QB.

His problem is he started in the league the same year and in the same conference as a truly generational talent in Mahomes.
Yeah I get that, and I'm sure we're all quite sick of the media downplaying Mahomes and looking for literally anyone to dethrone him.

But its hard to argue that Allen and the Bills aren't are our equals at this point, both talent-wise and organization-wise. Calling him Rivers 2.0 is quite a silly comparison. Rivers probably doesn't make it to the HOF, Mahomes and Allen are probably first ballot.
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Old 11-15-2022, 06:56 PM
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:01 PM   #65
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I started a post earlier and then got distracted, along the lines of "can you please run these stats again, but cherry pick the Allen stats to only include the past couple seasons while also highlighting rushing stats, then post to Twitter so we can embed".

And hey, it happened.
You don’t see any value in comparing recent stats that reflect a players current playing ability rather than lump in a rookie season where he played like crap?
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:19 PM   #66
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In a league where Mahomes doesn’t exist, Allen would be the best QB.

Was that ever said of Rivers?
There's a possibility Burrow is better
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:20 PM   #67
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For the people who aren't good at the maths, that means Patrick averaged an astounding 2,540 yds, 26.5 TDs, and 153.5 1st downs in those two extra games.

Without even looking it up I'm going to go ahead say that's a world record over a two-game span.
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:22 PM   #68
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why won't the NFL show us josh allen's passing chart?

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...-bills/2022/10
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:32 PM   #69
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Rivers had Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger & the Pit defense to contend with. Other than Mahomes it's been Lamar, Tanhill and Baker
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:38 PM   #70
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Patrick Mahomes is 9th in the NFL in on-target percentage this season.

Josh Allen is 34th.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:43 PM   #71
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here's another fun one

josh allen has been pressured less than anyone in football (12.4% pressure rate)

patrick mahomes has been pressured 18th most (20.8%)

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:45 PM   #72
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Gonna have to be Jimmy G and have the WRs reach for the stars on most throws
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:47 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks View Post
For the people who aren't good at the maths, that means Patrick averaged an astounding 2,540 yds, 26.5 TDs, and 153.5 1st downs in those two extra games.

Without even looking it up I'm going to go ahead say that's a world record over a two-game span.
One of those was the Rams game for sure.
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Old 11-15-2022, 07:48 PM   #74
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Old 11-15-2022, 08:53 PM   #75
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Patrick Mahomes is 9th in the NFL in on-target percentage this season.

Josh Allen is 34th.

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm
Any idea how they measure on-target? Is it like a guy that just says “yeah, that’s on target” or “nah, that’s a bad pass”?

I wouldn’t have expected Geno Smith and Daniel Jones to be above Mahomes in that.
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