Veach and Reid have a template to compete each year

[BigRedChief]

They are using a Bellicheck/Brady modified version they used to sustain success.

Basics:

• Elite QB
• Great O-line
• JAG and or FA value WR's and RB's
• Solid Defense
• Good kicking game

Discipline

• Move up in the draft to get "your" guy despite what the points say
• Leverage the success to encourage and work with older and cheaper FA vets seeking a ring offering one year contracts.
• Don't give 3rd contracts to your guys over 30. No matter how good they are currently.

Seems obvious to me. What say you?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Guys drafted in the 2nd have a higher expectation, I don't even mean right now although Moore needs to be better this year.

For sure.

But if they put up 800 yards and 5 TD's, we're golden.

[Mecca]

The biggest issue the WR room has is the high ceiling is there, someone could break out and have a huge year.....but the floor is also very very low.

There isn't anything you can look at and go yes these guys are consistent performers.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

I think you're doing a great disservice to Mahomes with this whole discussion.

Yes, he needs a bunch of WR2s. With Andy and Mahomes, those guys are WR1s. This isnt' Alex Smith here.

No, I think people are expecting too much of them and how much they should be asked to carry the offense on their back. Especially in a world with less or without kelce we can’t keep drawing from that well. And these guys are good enough to dominate, not just be good enough to support a balanced team. Elevating unremarkable play can be a curse as much as it is a blessing.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Mecca

The biggest issue the WR room has is the high ceiling is there, someone could break out and have a huge year.....but the floor is also very very low.

There isn't anything you can look at and go yes these guys are consistent performers.

Bottom line is we will take a step back when Kelce declines or retires. I don't see anyway round that even with Mahomes' magic. I think chiefzilla is right in that almost every year I'd want at least one of my first 2 picks being a weapon and failing that protection.

The issue though is that we need a couple of things - options and/or willing trade partners. This year the WR class was s*** for elite talent, so you might as well go R2, and we did. The OT class was decent enough but there was no way to get up without burning so many picks that filling in other roster spots becomes a nightmare. Would I have liked to have kept a pick and taken another flyer later on, probably, but it's splitting hairs because that second guy aint getting snaps.

If I'm bitching about Veach whiffing on offensive talent or just not trying it's MEH. With Higgins there it was a terrible, terrible pick. It happens.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

For sure.

But if they put up 800 yards and 5 TD's, we're golden.

If that’s what the best guy has to offer we will be fine. That is very different from being golden. And they need to be guys who can put up 800 yards with any qb, not just because mahomes elevates their play. At this point I would love to see just 1 game with a really good WR because I think people have really underestimated our upside if we just had some semblance of talent.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If that’s what the best guy has to offer we will be fine. That is very different from being golden. And they need to be guys who can put up 800 yards with any qb, not just because mahomes elevates their play. At this point I would love to see just 1 game with a really good WR because I think people have really underestimated our upside if we just had some semblance of talent.

You mean... like the four seasons with Tyreek Hill?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by JPH83

Bottom line is we will take a step back when Kelce declines or retires. I don't see anyway round that even with Mahomes' magic. I think chiefzilla is right in that almost every year I'd want at least one of my first 2 picks being a weapon and failing that protection.

The issue though is that we need a couple of things - options and/or willing trade partners. This year the WR class was s*** for elite talent, so you might as well go R2, and we did. The OT class was decent enough but there was no way to get up without burning so many picks that filling in other roster spots becomes a nightmare. Would I have liked to have kept a pick and taken another flyer later on, probably, but it's splitting hairs because that second guy aint getting snaps.

If I'm bitching about Veach whiffing on offensive talent or just not trying it's MEH. With Higgins there it was a terrible, terrible pick. It happens.

In fairness I think Higgins is better than most people expected him to be. I watched a ton of him at Clemson and he always just seemed to be missing that something to be special.

Hell Lawrence seemed to trust Ross far more than him in the championship year.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You mean... like the four seasons with Tyreek Hill?

This is a very different offense and mahomes than what we had with tyreek hill. Nobody is saying we need to go back to the offense. Doing what we are doing now but getting more from our top WRs will most certainly make us better. And our ceiling is way higher than we realize. That doesn’t mean we need tyreek and I’ve been supportive of getting rid of him. But to act like we’re anywhere near our ceiling without a legit WR1 or that a WR1 doesn’t make us better is sugarcoating things.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

This is a very different offense and mahomes than what we had with tyreek hill. Nobody is saying we need to go back to the offense. Doing what we are doing now but getting more from our top WRs will most certainly make us better. And our ceiling is way higher than we realize. That doesn’t mean we need tyreek and I’ve been supportive of getting rid of him. But to act like we’re anywhere near our ceiling without a legit WR1 or that a WR1 doesn’t make us better is sugarcoating things.

The offense and Mahomes have been exactly 1 season without Tyreek. If they get a clear number 1 they would just get back to what they were with Tyreek. (which coincidentally was very statistically similar to last year). To say the ceiling is higher is more hyperbole because they might put up more yards but there is still only one Superbowl every season.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

The offense and Mahomes have been exactly 1 season without Tyreek. If they get a clear number 1 they would just get back to what they were with Tyreek. (which coincidentally was very statistically similar to last year). To say the ceiling is higher is more hyperbole because they might put up more yards but there is still only one Superbowl every season.

Let’s say rashee rice becomes a clear WrR1. Even a low end one. Our offense is immediately better. We are deeper than we were with tyreek. Mahomes is a way better qb. Andy has a way better understanding of how to attack the looks that stumped us a few years ago. Of course we are very fine without it. But we still have plenty of ceiling.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Let’s say rashee rice becomes a clear WrR1. Even a low end one. Our offense is immediately better. We are deeper than we were with tyreek. Mahomes is a way better qb. Andy has a way better understanding of how to attack the looks that stumped us a few years ago. Of course we are very fine without it. But we still have plenty of ceiling.

Of course there's still improvement to gained. But at what cost?

To get a WR room like the Dolphins or Bengals, we'd have to be drafting high in the 1st like they did. That's not going to happen as long as Pat is here.

And as long as Pat is taking up almost a quarter of the salary cap, it's unlikely they can buy one either.

So yes, there's room for improvement. The question is whether or not there is a viable, and valuable, path to that improvement. What we're doing right now may be the only thing they CAN do, given the cap constraints.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Of course there's still improvement to gained. But at what cost?

To get a WR room like the Dolphins or Bengals, we'd have to be drafting high in the 1st like they did. That's not going to happen as long as Pat is here.

And as long as Pat is taking up almost a quarter of the salary cap, it's unlikely they can buy one either.

So yes, there's room for improvement. The question is whether or not there is a viable, and valuable, path to that improvement. What we're doing right now may be the only thing they CAN do, given the cap constraints.

Now the Dolphins did pay a lot in capital for their group but there are other teams that have built good WR rooms without top 5 picks.

Seattles is really good and their highest investment is pick #20.

The 49ers did it without high picks also.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Of course there's still improvement to gained. But at what cost?

To get a WR room like the Dolphins or Bengals, we'd have to be drafting high in the 1st like they did. That's not going to happen as long as Pat is here.

And as long as Pat is taking up almost a quarter of the salary cap, it's unlikely they can buy one either.

So yes, there's room for improvement. The question is whether or not there is a viable, and valuable, path to that improvement. What we're doing right now may be the only thing they CAN do, given the cap constraints.

Yeah, I mean I don’t expect a wr room like the bengals. Or that we need to be throwing $100m at this elite offense. I’m talking about small shifts. We should not have ignored this position for 5 years. If we threw a lot of picks at this years ago we’d be talking about vetted cheap options instead of a wr room I think even the biggest optimist has to acknowledge has risk to it.

If we have cap and pick restraints then building and maintaining a top 3 defense is going to cut into what you can put into the offense. Not that that’s a terrible thing. But I feel we should be tilting it the other direction where maybe a top 10 or even top 5 defense is great if it means just a little more room to maneuver for offensive weapons. I would rather pay just a little less attention to our defense so we aren’t constantly asking mahomes to just settle for what he’s got.

And as I’ve pointed out before what we’re doing is a reaction to something we should have anticipated years ago. And we shouldn’t wait for kelce to escape his prime to come to that same realization. Because we have to prepare for a world where our WRs have to shoulder way more of the responsibility. Is a room full of WR2s still gonna cut it?

[Mecca]

And honestly I think this team WANTS to invest in WR things just haven't panned out.

They wanted to pay Tyreek, were interested in AJ Brown and were very in on the WRs in this years draft.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Now the Dolphins did pay a lot in capital for their group but there are other teams that have built good WR rooms without top 5 picks.

Seattles is really good and their highest investment is pick #20.

The 49ers did it without high picks also.

True but then look at those 2 teams' QB situation.

It's all intertwined.

The Chiefs not only have their QB, he's one of the highest paid players in the league. The Dolphins could afford to buy WR's because their QB is still on his rookie deal. ****, Tua's base salary this year is a million dollars. Look at this way - the cap situations are so different that the Dolphins were actually able to buy Tyreek away from us. We sold because he was too expensive, they bought because they could afford it.

As for the 49ers, they were free to invest whatever they wanted in WR's. They have a highly drafted guy still on a rookie contract, a backup with the potential to start on a rookie contract and they've really never spent money on the QB position. Jimmy G got them to a SB for crying out loud.

So in summary, our situation is not at all like Seattle's or the 49ers. Both teams arguably still need a QB so talking about WR's in that context is apples and oranges.