Brett Veach hopes Chris Jones can play next week; increased talks last 2 days

[RunKC]

For the mega thread hating crew

#Chiefs GM Brett Veach says he's hopeful that DT Chris Jones will play in their season opener vs. the Lions, which is just eight days away.

Veach mentioned that there has been increased communication on an extension over the past two days. pic.twitter.com/MpLGt0mYhz

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) August 30, 2023

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

We would have preferred to keep you.

We don't ****ing need you to get where we want to be.

I don't know. I'd argue Jones is more important to this team than anyone outside of Mahomes. Kelcee is also up there and Pat doesn't need his contributions at this point to be special. Jones is the only All Pro level player on D though. Clark and Money Badger are both gone and while Sneed is excellent I wouldn't point to him as a guy that can single handedly change games.

[Bob Dole]

Originally Posted by Monticore

A DT that gets double teamed consistently by C and guard not chipped by an RB or te and he it’s not always obvious where the double will coming from , 15 sacks is pretty impressive while also being solid vs the run .

Our D will absolutely be much worse , as someone who became a Chiefs fan originally because of the defense it would be nice to actually have a dominant one for a couple of years to pair with the best QB ever to see what happens, I though this year would have had a chance to just decimate the rest of the NFL , but this ****er had to ruin it and potentially hurt our team mentally at the same time, I’m pissed.

Same. This is some bullshit.

[Straight, No Chaser]

Hooray for my side...

Chiefs go 4-0 without CJ: F-You Chris Jones; Katz Bros can suck it!

Chiefs go 2-4 or 3-3 and lose to Donks: F-You Chris Jones; Katz Bros can suck it!

Come Home Chris. Come Home.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Monticore

A DT that gets double teamed consistently by C and guard not chipped by an RB or te and he it’s not always obvious where the double will coming from , 15 sacks is pretty impressive while also being solid vs the run .

Our D will absolutely be much worse , as someone who became a Chiefs fan originally because of the defense it would be nice to actually have a dominant one for a couple of years to pair with the best QB ever to see what happens, I though this year would have had a chance to just decimate the rest of the NFL , but this ****er had to ruin it and potentially hurt our team mentally at the same time, I’m pissed.

Yep. Nothing can ruin a team's chances like internal issues. That's the biggest threat to the Chiefs. It makes all other threats worse.

[dirk digler]

https://overthecap.com/thoughts-on-t...to-chris-jones

Thoughts on the Chiefs Offer to Chris Jones

Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk put an article up today detailing where the Chiefs and Chris Jones stand on a contract. Per Florio, the Chiefs have offered Jones a three year, $74 million contract and that Jones would settle for a three year, $84.5 million contract. The numbers in the article are framed in a way to make the contract look much lesser than the recent Aaron Donald contract with the Rams but I think that fails to take into account the way that the Chiefs and many others around the NFL would likely view the offer.

The thing with contracts that often leads to the most confusion in the NFL is the concept of how to value a contract extension. A contract extension is typically valued based on the “new money” in a contract. The calculation is simple. Add up all of the money in the contract and subtract from that the money that is owed to the player on his current contract and then you have the new money in the deal. Divide that by the number of new years and you come up with the average per year on the contract.

The valuation in this manner makes sense. Essentially you are buying out a player’s free agency early and this new money is the value you are giving the player. Some constantly look down on this method of contract valuation saying it inflates the contract’s value but when you run through it logically it is the most fair way to value a deal and create a system that allows for teams to be extended prior to the expiration of their current contract- if every player demanded that a current year be ripped up a team would simply wait until the contract expires to make an offer.

However, there are rare instances where teams have agreed to negotiate as if the current contract does not exist. That occurred last season with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay and then later with Aaron Donald with the Rams, which is pertinent to the Jones negotiation. Donald had three years remaining on his prior contract at a total value of $55 million. The Rams replaced those salaries with new salaries that totaled $95 million. With no new years added it was clear that this was just being viewed as a replacement contract and that is how we arrived at the value of $31.67 million for Donald.

The decision by the Rams to do that deal was likely very controversial among NFL front offices. From the Rams point of view they probably did not look at this as paying nearly $32 million for Donald but rather as a modification of his original six year, $22.5 million per year contract, bringing the value of the contract to about $29.2 million per year. It would not surprise me if this is how most NFL teams are trying to spin the Donald numbers when dealing with other pass rushers and defensive tackles.

The numbers reported by Florio are based on the idea that the Chiefs would follow a similar path as the Rams and just assume that this year doesn’t exist when it comes to doing a deal with Jones. I would think it is doubtful the Chiefs are thinking that way and in many ways the offer likely shows that.

The $74.5 million offer works out to $24.8 million a year, but if we value this as new money, it represents an offer from the Chiefs worth $55 million in new money over two new years, an average of $27.5 million. That number is a “cleaner” figure than the $74.5 million which certainly leads me to believe the Chiefs are taking a traditional approach to the contract valuation. The $84.5 million that Florio says is the magic number would lead to a new money total of $65 million, or $32.5 million a season, which would blow away any other extension for a non-QB and fly past Donald’s number.

$27.5 million a season is certainly a fair offer that splits the market between Donald and everyone else. $32.5 million is probably too rich for the Chiefs. For the most part almost all of the past history is on the Chiefs side other than Donald. Contracts are valued using new money. Older pass rushers (Von Miller, Chandler Jones, Cam Jordan) have all signed contracts that averaged anywhere from $13 million to $20 million a season. The Chiefs offer blows those numbers away.

So when it comes to evaluating offers made to Jones it is important to keep in mind the way that typical contracts are valued to see how the offer compares to the market, the majority of which are valued on the basis of new money.

[ptlyon]

GTFO

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

TJ Watt makes $28 mil/yr
Joey Bosa makes $27 mil/yr

You could argue that he's as valuable or even more valuable than either of those guys. He's damn sure more important to the overall play of the defense and has way more double teams and around the same amount of pressures. ****ing Nick Bosa is gonna get more than Donald, so I'd say the market definitely says he's worth. $27-$28 should more than get it done.

Even if it’s true he is as valuable as them or worth that amount based on market value, who cares? It doesn’t mean we have to pay it. We have other needs as well but we are also everyone’s best option at winning and getting exposure for other ways to earn money (which Jones has done). That’s worth plenty and if Veach believes we don’t need to pay top of market value for a third contract at that position then I would tend to agree.

[Simply Red]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Totally agreed. There’s probably some room for compromise today on the Chiefs part, but I hope the team doesn’t bend an inch based on anything that happens during the season.

Yep exactly. Plus he'll actually dodge an Arrowhead Taco Bell beatdown, I've had Clay, Pansexual Bill and X-Factor on standby and ready to rock!

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

https://overthecap.com/thoughts-on-t...to-chris-jones

Great article. Thanks for posting.

I think this is the exact right way to look at it and am back on the not-remotely-sympathetic-to-Jones train. It's a very fair offer when views through this lens.

[Red Dawg]

Originally Posted by Rausch

I don't know. I'd argue Jones is more important to this team than anyone outside of Mahomes. Kelcee is also up there and Pat doesn't need his contributions at this point to be special. Jones is the only All Pro level player on D though. Clark and Money Badger are both gone and while Sneed is excellent I wouldn't point to him as a guy that can single handedly change games.

Nope. Wrong. Being the best player on a defense that isn't top ten is not more important than the best TE of all time.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Red Dawg

Nope. Wrong. Being the best player on a defense that isn't top ten is not more important than the best TE of all time.

I think fans have gotten so used to defending mahomes from people who claim Reid made him or that he was at one point a product of a stellar supporting cast that we’ve forgotten how good kelce is. It’s almost like we want to talk down his importance because we want to prove mahomes can win without him.

I think jones is very important because he’s the leader of the defense. But this offense is capable of carrying a mediocre defense and they have. And it’s uncomfortable to hear but without kelce, that becomes a lot harder to do. He is so damn important to this offense.

[Fishels]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

That's not possible. People need to figure this out: the Chiefs' defense will be significantly different without Chris Jones in the middle of that line. In both the passing game and the run game. Spags said out loud in his presser right after the SB that the defense was built around CJ. CJ is the pass-rush, and he is the run-stopper. With him, the D is ranked in the top-12, without him they're in the bottom 5.

The middle of our DL without CJ is currently populated by NO ONE, until Omenihu returns after Week 6. NO ONE that can consistently generate pressure on the QB, or even draw a double-team. No one that can stuff the run either.

i mean, think about it: how different does the 49ers defense look without Bosa? How about the Bills defense without VM? They literally went from being something like a top-5 pass-rushing DL to dead last the second VM got hurt.


The Chiefs defense may not collapse, but it will definitely, 100%, look different, and they will miss Chris Jones dearly until he returns to the locker room.

I guess I’m just on copium. Feels bad man

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Originally Posted by Rausch

I don't know. I'd argue Jones is more important to this team than anyone outside of Mahomes. Kelcee is also up there and Pat doesn't need his contributions at this point to be special. Jones is the only All Pro level player on D though. Clark and Money Badger are both gone and while Sneed is excellent I wouldn't point to him as a guy that can single handedly change games.

I think everyone agrees with you. However, we can win a SB without him, it would just be a much tougher road. So the question is, do you want to pay him and go for it for 2 years before you have to make tough decisions on others who have contracts coming due, or do you want to stay disciplined and follow the process of not overpaying aging vets, like the Patriots did, and continue give Mahomes a fighting chance every single year of his career.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

https://overthecap.com/thoughts-on-t...to-chris-jones

Donald had three years remaining on his prior contract at a total value of $55 million. The Rams replaced those salaries with new salaries that totaled $95 million. With no new years added it was clear that this was just being viewed as a replacement contract and that is how we arrived at the value of $31.67 million for Donald.

I didn’t realize just how dumb that deal was they gave Donald.

And I agree with idea of the article which is basically why rip up a very fair deal that currently exists a nd there’s certainly no need to get crazy on the future extension just to prevent a hold out now.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

I think everyone agrees with you. However, we can win a SB without him, it would just be a much tougher road. So the question is, do you want to pay him and go for it for 2 years before you have to make tough decisions on others who have contracts coming due, or do you want to stay disciplined and follow the process of not overpaying aging vets, like the Patriots did, and continue give Mahomes a fighting chance every single year of his career.

I completely disagree Jones is more important than Kelce.