Brett Veach hopes Chris Jones can play next week; increased talks last 2 days

[RunKC]

For the mega thread hating crew

#Chiefs GM Brett Veach says he's hopeful that DT Chris Jones will play in their season opener vs. the Lions, which is just eight days away.

Veach mentioned that there has been increased communication on an extension over the past two days. pic.twitter.com/MpLGt0mYhz

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) August 30, 2023

[chop]

Soren Petro twitter (X) comments on the Florio article:



https://twitter.com/SorenPetro/statu...61353474695309

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by jettio

So his franchise tag number for 2024 is 120% of his 2023 salary cap hit of $28.3 million?

So if the Pro Football Talk numbers that Chiefs are offering $74 million for 2023, 2024 and 2025 are true, why would anybody say the Chiefs are making an offer that the player should accept?

If Jones just played at his 2023 salary and workout bonus of $20 million and gets $32.5 million under 2024 franchise tag, he gets $52.5 million for 2023 and 2024 and if he is tagged for 2025, the Chiefs would have to pay him 144% of 32.5 million which would be $46.8 million. So Jones would get $33.1 m AAV if tagged twice.

So if Jones never asks for extension, Chiefs would have to pay him $26.75 AAV for 2023 and 2024 if they involuntarily extend him once with franchise tag.
And Chiefs would have to pay him $33.1 m AAV for 2023, 2024 and 2025 to involuntarily extend him twice with franchise tag.

So the Chiefs offer according to Pro Football Talk is less than $25 million AAV.

In retrospect, Jones should have never asked for extension and played 2023 for $20 million and get an insurance policy to replace prospective pay lost to serious injury.

So all the pro-front office and anti-Jones people need to explain why the Chiefs did not straight out tell Jones from the very beginning that his best option would be to just play out his 2023 contract because their best offer for 2023, 2024, and 2025 would be a million lower than lower than the AAV he would get if Chiefs franchise tagged him in 2024. And their best offer would be $8.1 million lower AAV if the Chiefs tagged him twice.

There is no excuse for Chiefs stringing Jones along. Chiefs could have put a deadline on the offer of start of OTAs, so that Jones could earn his $500,00.00 workout bonus and just played out 2023 with his own personal insurance policy.

Jones best move would be to report and play out his 2023 deal and no longer participate in any extension talks.

If anybody in this thread is saying that if they were Jones' agent they would advise their client to take that deal detailed in Pro Football Talk, they should explain why they think it is a better deal for Jones than playing out 2023 and stopping negotiations altogether.

Chiefs are basically demanding a hometown discount from a player that they strung along. They could have been upfront and said that the extension is less AAV than what he would get if he did nothing but show up and play.

I love Veach, but TBH, the only communication he had with Jones camp before the press conference that this thread is based on was probably a heads up to Jones agent that they would put him on reserve/not reported.

Yeah we're "stringing him along" as he burns any bridges and goodwill ahead of him... Chris Jones will eventually become a cautionary tale thats taught to noobs at the rookie symposium

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by 493rd

Some of you are idiots. The Lions are loaded with talent and present some issues for the Chiefs, especially minus Chris Jones. Nothing that’s happened in the past means Jack shit. The lions are talented, well-coached, and confident after finishing last year on a high note. This isn’t an easy game for the Chiefs by any stretch.

How do you think KC feels based on how they finished last year? Very few people think the Lions are a pushover or are an easy win.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by jettio

He wanted to be treated like an important player who has performed at a HOF level.

He did not say anything about wanting security from guarantees.

The dude has been in the building since 2016. They know him better than that.

Then why is he currently not on a HOF track?

[Delano]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Imagine thinking Mahomes will lose at home in September the night we hang a banner, to the Detroit Lions.

Imagine.

The NFC North isn’t a strong division, but the Lions are favorites to win it. That makes them playoff contenders.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by jettio

He has the option of showing up whenever he wants and getting paid his full game check for using the showers and watching practices until the coaches put him in to play.

He has the option to show up but the Chiefs can apply for a 2 week roster exemption and can withhold those 2 checks from him.

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Imagine spending all that time typing that out to someone who thinks the Chiefs will win the game 75% of the time without CJ and 85% of the time with him. Who is really doing the hand-wringing here?

It kinda seems like the moron Wallcrawler doth protest too much.

Imagine giving the Detroit Lions a 1 in 4 chance of defeating Patrick Mahomes at home in September, and then trying to call anyone a moron.

Carry on TwistedPanties. Carry on.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by chop

Soren Petro twitter (X) comments on the Florio article:



https://twitter.com/SorenPetro/statu...61353474695309

Petro is exactly right. People like jettio need to read this.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Petro is exactly right. People like jettio need to read this.

Uncommon phrase.

[Wallcrawler]

Originally Posted by Delano

The NFC North isn’t a strong division, but the Lions are favorites to win it. That makes them playoff contenders.

Sure pal.

Hey, Chargers are the pre season favorite to win the Superbowl every year also. That's worked out amazing for them.

[Warrick]

Originally Posted by Dunerdr

A lot of Chris jones hate in here.

Well deserved too! He is ripping off everyone who buys tickets, everyone who bought his jersey, and basically slapped his teammates & coaches in the face.

[duncan_idaho]

My man... you need to take a step back and chill.

Originally Posted by jettio

So his franchise tag number for 2024 is 120% of his 2023 salary cap hit of $28.3 million?

Yes, the franchise tag is either average of the top 5 paid players at your position, or 120% of your previous year cap hit, whichever is higher.

Originally Posted by jettio

So if the Pro Football Talk numbers that Chiefs are offering $74 million for 2023, 2024 and 2025 are true, why would anybody say the Chiefs are making an offer that the player should accept?

Well, first of all you assume that the PFT numbers are correct. Which are numbers you should take with a grain of salt considering that whole article was clearly planted by Jones' agents and, as such, probably DOESN'T TELL A COMPLETE AND FAIR AND ACCURATE story.

Second of all, if the Chiefs are offering to make the deal $74M over 23, 24, and 25, that means they're offering Jones $54.5M over 24 and 25, which is $27.25M/year in new money. Which is how NFL contracts should be tracked. What is the NEW money.

That deal DOES put him well clear of the guys in the tier below Jones (Simmons, Williams, et al). Like $6-7M AAV clear of them.

It's a very fair offer for him that does exactly what he says he wants. It pays him like the 2nd highest paid DT in the NFL and also gives him new money that is far clear of where the other guys are. It resets the non-Aaron Donald market.

Originally Posted by jettio

If Jones just played at his 2023 salary and workout bonus of $20 million and gets $32.5 million under 2024 franchise tag, he gets $52.5 million for 2023 and 2024 and if he is tagged for 2025, the Chiefs would have to pay him 144% of 32.5 million which would be $46.8 million. So Jones would get $33.1 m AAV if tagged twice.

Yes, because his cap hit for 2023 is so high, the franchise tags are a problem in 2024 and 2025, to the point that if he had reported and played out this year on the deal he had, he would be very difficult to tag, even for a trade purpose.

Originally Posted by jettio

So if Jones never asks for extension, Chiefs would have to pay him $26.75 AAV for 2023 and 2024 if they involuntarily extend him once with franchise tag.
And Chiefs would have to pay him $33.1 m AAV for 2023, 2024 and 2025 to involuntarily extend him twice with franchise tag.

The Chiefs wouldn't HAVE to pay him. They wouldn't HAVE to tag him. And there's no precedent for negotiating based on the 120% figure for the franchise tag. Using the AVG of top 5 at position calculation is where most contract extensions start.

They don't have to offer the tag. He doesn't have to sign it. Etc.

Originally Posted by jettio

So the Chiefs offer according to Pro Football Talk is less than $25 million AAV.

If you include the year already under contract, which is a faulty way to look at it. Did you see the OTC guy's breakdown of this? It's all about the new money, man. In new money, you're talking $27.25M.

Originally Posted by jettio

In retrospect, Jones should have never asked for extension and played 2023 for $20 million and get an insurance policy to replace prospective pay lost to serious injury.

There are many ways Jones and his agents could have proceeded that would have handled this situation better. The best one would have been a "hold-in" situation. Where he has reported but is not playing and they're working towards a deal with the idea that he'll play if no deal is reached.

This way - a long, protracted hold out that has already cost him 1 game check (Preseason) plus $2M in fines and a $500K reporting bonus and is going to cost him his Game 1 game check - is not it. He doesn't have the leverage that he and his agent think he does. Hell, at this point the Chiefs can legitimately hold him out for as long as they want before playing him per the CBA since he didn't report within 5 days of cutdown day.

The most likely outcomes now are: (1) the Chiefs either get enough savings from missed game checks to tag him for 2024 and trade him to the team they want for the package they like best, rather than the tag being too high to do that unless you have a deal in place quickly (2) he reports having missed 2 game checks and still is tagged and traded in the offseason, just with a little more control over the landing spot.

In both of those situations, it's going to be hard to make up the money he's lost because he'll be negotiating as a year-older player and coming off a lesser year.

You could make an easy case this was the worst way to get what he wants (Guarantees and security and $$)

Originally Posted by jettio

So all the pro-front office and anti-Jones people need to explain why the Chiefs did not straight out tell Jones from the very beginning that his best option would be to just play out his 2023 contract because their best offer for 2023, 2024, and 2025 would be a million lower than lower than the AAV he would get if Chiefs franchise tagged him in 2024. And their best offer would be $8.1 million lower AAV if the Chiefs tagged him twice.

We're not in the room and don't know when the first offer came out. Both teams are in negotiation mode. The Chiefs front office has a reputation for offering in good faith. If Jones and his representation had told the team in April that what they wanted was $32.5M a year in new money (what the deal in the PFT article would come to), the Chiefs would have traded him like they did with Hill because that structure doesn't work for them.

One side seems to NOT be operating in good faith. Logic would suggest that it is the side that was saying "I want to be the second-highest paid player at my position" for months, but that is now leaking info to shills who share numbers that make him the highest-paid player at his position in new money.

Originally Posted by jettio

There is no excuse for Chiefs stringing Jones along. Chiefs could have put a deadline on the offer of start of OTAs, so that Jones could earn his $500,00.00 workout bonus and just played out 2023 with his own personal insurance policy.

Again, there's evidence that one side has been stringing the other along and not operating in good faith. It is not that it was the team.

Originally Posted by jettio

Jones best move would be to report and play out his 2023 deal and no longer participate in any extension talks.

This has been the case for some time now. Weeks, in fact.

Originally Posted by jettio

If anybody in this thread is saying that if they were Jones' agent they would advise their client to take that deal detailed in Pro Football Talk, they should explain why they think it is a better deal for Jones than playing out 2023 and stopping negotiations altogether.

Why is $27.25M/year in new money, with $70M in guarantees for 23-24-25 better than playing out 2023?

Well, because it puts a guaranteed additional $50M in his bank accounts?

Because that rate of pay is more than 20% higher than the next-highest paid non-Aaron Donald player at his position (anything that is more than 10% is normally viewed as a market reset level contract)?

Because it pays him better at his position than anyone other than Aaron Donald?

Because there's no guarantee he does better than that on the open market?

Originally Posted by jettio

Chiefs are basically demanding a hometown discount from a player that they strung along. They could have been upfront and said that the extension is less AAV than what he would get if he did nothing but show up and play.

Not accurate, as I've spent most of my reply outlining. They are not demanding he take a hometown discount. They are offering him huge money on the new years of the deal.

Originally Posted by jettio

I love Veach, but TBH, the only communication he had with Jones camp before the press conference that this thread is based on was probably a heads up to Jones agent that they would put him on reserve/not reported.

Wild speculation and counter to the way Veach and the Chiefs operate and what was reported throughout the summer.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Imagine giving the Detroit Lions a 1 in 4 chance of defeating Patrick Mahomes at home in September, and then trying to call anyone a moron.

Carry on TwistedPanties. Carry on.

First, wanna know who’s also giving the Lions a 1 in 4 chance of beating the Chiefs? Vegas.

Second, wanna know the last team that was a 6.5pt dog to the Chiefs at Arrowhead in September?

The 2021 Chargers. And they won.

Bet the spread with me and you can flex your chest when the Chiefs win by more than a touchdown and I’ll gladly send you money. We can do a ban bet as well for a month if that’s more your speed.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Petro is exactly right. People like jettio need to read this.

Pretty sure Petro just stole it from the article you posted earlier. He’s not savvy enough to work through that on his own.

And jettio? Short of finding out that Bosa and Watt are actually mixed race, I’m not sure anything is going to sway him.

[kcbubb]

I’m assuming Wharton is gonna start for cj if he doesn’t show up soon? Is Wharton healthy? What if Wharton has a big game? He’s flashed at times. And will we see Mike danna on the inside more? I’m assuming danna will play DT more on passing downs if CJ is out?