Brett Veach hopes Chris Jones can play next week; increased talks last 2 days

[RunKC]

For the mega thread hating crew

#Chiefs GM Brett Veach says he's hopeful that DT Chris Jones will play in their season opener vs. the Lions, which is just eight days away.

Veach mentioned that there has been increased communication on an extension over the past two days. pic.twitter.com/MpLGt0mYhz

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) August 30, 2023

[Rainbarrel]

Fantasy football is more indepth than I thought

[jettio]

Originally Posted by srvy

Yeah I think Jettio is mixed up on who strung who along. One guy is under contract. The other was willing to extend the other in a reasonable fashion. Someone or some agent led him off the tracks.

Chiefs could have been upfront and let Jones know that his best choice would be to just play out his current deal because any offer would not be market value.

If your extension offer has AAV 5 million less than first franchise tag, it is not a market value deal.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

Pretty sure Petro just stole it from the article you posted earlier. He’s not savvy enough to work through that on his own.

And jettio? Short of finding out that Bosa and Watt are actually mixed race, I’m not sure anything is going to sway him.

The biggest takeaway I took from Petro's tweet was that the Chiefs never tear up the final year of the contract. That is pretty good information and confirms that this is a 2 year extension at $27-28 million per year.

[srvy]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I adore Chris Jones and always will. We merely find ourselves in a situation where we disagree, much like when my friends and I disagree on whether to get the onion rings or the nachos at a sports bar. We'll work past it and will be just as happy as ever.

My loyalty lasts a lifetime except in traitorous actions like going to oakland denver and now cincinatti.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by jettio

Yes, because Chiefs do not respect the man enough to not **** him over if the CBA allows it.

Not saying the Chiefs would do that but they have the option to. If he misses 8 games if I were the Chiefs I definitely would. **** him at that point.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

This is the key point, imo.

So let's play that out. They tell Veach they want 32.5mm/yr in new money 2 weeks after the Super Bowl which is also ~27.5mm/yr over the next 3 years.

The Chiefs view that as a 32.5mm/yr 2y extension beginning in 2024, but if the Chiefs shop him, does any acquiring team care that he's on the books for ~20mm this year? They just view it as the ability to acquire CJ for 27.5mm/yr over the next 3 years.

So, this is obviously before the Williams and Simmons deal went down to establish that the Donald contract is an outlier that GMs aren't effectively even acknowledging as a baseline.

What are we getting for CJ with those demands? Is anyone giving up a 1st? Mack went for a 2 and a 3 last season for the Chargers to assume a similar-ish sort of salary on a talent-adjusted basis (obviously he's not CJ level). Chubb is younger and a lot less talented and went for a 1 last deadline and he then signed 22mm/yr AAV deal. Off the top of my head the only decent edge rusher trade this offseason was Za'Darius Smith who went for 2 5s.

Is anyone giving up a 1? Would we have traded him for a 2 and a 3? Would this place have melted down if that were the compensation?

Obviously now I think we would've preferred that course.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by -King-

If Chris Jones and his agent weren't acting in good faith before the draft and not giving the chiefs their demands, isn't that all the more reason he should have been traded?

Yes if they indeed acted in bad faith and Veach knew that. What most likely happened was Jones’ camp was being dishonest about what they really wanted until after the draft when they would have more leverage.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Originally Posted by jettio

Chiefs could have been upfront and let Jones know that his best choice would be to just play out his current deal because any offer would not be market value.

If your extension offer has AAV 5 million less than first franchise tag, it is not a market value deal.

Why do you continue to ignore guaranteed and signing bonus money as if it is irrelevant to the risk and present value opportunity?

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by jettio

Chiefs could have been upfront and let Jones know that his best choice would be to just play out his current deal because any offer would not be market value.

If your extension offer has AAV 5 million less than first franchise tag, it is not a market value deal.

For 99% of situations, you'd be right in saying that the franchise tag value would be a good representation of current market value. That's not the case for CJ's situation because his tag value is a function of a particularly large cap hit the prior season, and that's just a function of the fact that the Chiefs backloaded the cap hit for the 2nd half of his 4yr deal (29.4mm in 2022 and 28.3mm in 2023 after 15mm and 8.5mm the prior couple years).

But it's okay - you don't acknowledge anything, so ignore this like you ignore all other logic.

[Red Dawg]

This relationship is dead. No matter what happens the Jones we had is gone. Paid his price or not. We will not get the contract year guy again. It's over.

[jettio]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

The biggest takeaway I took from Petro's tweet was that the Chiefs never tear up the final year of the contract. That is pretty good information and confirms that this is a 2 year extension at $27-28 million per year.

If the first franchise tag is $32.5 million why would $27 million be considered a good offer?

Maybe if it was 3 new years with the third year 2026 vesting in summer 2025.

If franchise tag is 120% of 2023 cap hit. Chiefs have to own the cap hit number number they agreed to.

Chiefs are saying they do not want to extend him unless he bails them out from the 2024 franchise tag number.

Chiefs should just offer Jones to play out current contract and give him a small signing bonus on a voidable 2024 to get some 2023 cap relief and promise not to franchise tag him in 2024.

Let him walk for a comp pick or consider making an offer in 2024 when he can negotiate with all the other teams.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

Do you recall that we barely beat the Lions the year we won the SB?

Yeah, Arrowhead was oddly quiet that game. Ohhh that's right. Game was on the road in Detroit.

Do you recall it took a random 99yd fumble recovery for a TD? And then a late 4th quarter drive?

Due to the most hilarious case of fumblitis by Watkins and the rest of the receivers. Something that happens quite regularly. Right?

Aren't you the one who finds Andy Reid a fraudulent coach?

Jesus it's a toss up who is more reeruned, you or dilphag9.

Criticizing Andy Reid for gaffes, and stating his embarrassing post season history really pisses you homers off.

Is it my fault that Andy lost more post season contests in which he was favored to win than any coach in history?

Is it my fault he presided over two of the worst playoff collapses in post season history?

These things happened. They happened because he dud not do the best job in those games. Referencing his history when it comes to saying it is irrelevant whether KC under Andy is favored to win isn't some cheap shot. It's merely fact. Your hero was quite adept at post season pant shitting during his career. Get over it.

That said Dan Campbell cant hold Andys playsheet.

The Lions were inches away from making the playoffs last season, yet we lost to the Colts who were one of the worst teams in the league.

Yeah your hero had a big hand in that. Your lord and savior, black Jesus Cj95. Sacked Ryan to end the game, taunted for first down, did **** all to stop Ryan from tossing game winning td.

Ah. The lord giveth, and the lord taketh away, right?

We also nearly lost to the Broncos, Texans, and Titans with Malik Willis at QB.

So are we talking about what teams almost did? Does that count for things now? Is this up there with Megatrons hand wringing about not winning by double digits?

Since when did our fans get so obnoxious that they somehow believe we have a birthrite to win these games when we're missing our best defensive player?

Because Chris Jones is not the reason we win football games. He is not the reason Mahomes will continue to pile up MVPs and Lombardis. He's not.

The spread is 6.5. If you'd like to actually bet, we can do that to make it interesting.

Big ****ing deal. Andy doesn't call plays to beat the ****ing spread. He calls them to win the game.

The Kansas City Chiefs, barring catastrophic injury to Patrick Mahomes, will defeat the legendary non playoff contender Detroit Lions.

Imagine thinking Mahomes will lose at home in September the night we hang a banner, to the Detroit Lions.

Imagine.

Bro, I'm living rent free in your head.

You're constantly bringing me up without me even being in a convo. It's weird as ****.

Also you constantly criticize Andy's coaching methods. You should probably go play in traffic.

Imagine thinking any game is a guaranteed win in the NFL. Mahomes or not.

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

First, wanna know who’s also giving the Lions a 1 in 4 chance of beating the Chiefs? Vegas.

Second, wanna know the last team that was a 6.5pt dog to the Chiefs at Arrowhead in September?

The 2021 Chargers. And they won.

Bet the spread with me and you can flex your chest when the Chiefs win by more than a touchdown and I’ll gladly send you money. We can do a ban bet as well for a month if that’s more your speed.

Andy Reid has lost, like 1 opener with the Chiefs.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Skyy God

Andy Reid has lost, like 1 opener with the Chiefs.

Oh, I didn't know? But, I was there firsthand live for the Titans in 2014 when we lost and the Texans in 2015, Chargers in 2016, Patriots in 2017, Chargers in 2018, Jaguars in 2019, and then Cardinals in 2022 when we won. I know how good Reid is after a bye and with time to plan.

Reid has also never had his best defensive player determine a week before the game that he really just wasn't showing up, and that's enough for the odds of our winning to go down by 10% in my view.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by jettio

If he reports and Chiefs take his next two game checks, that is not ****ing him over?

Are the 49ers going to do that with Nick Bosa?

I do not expect Chiefs to do that, but the psychos around here are praying for it.

I don’t know that anyone is praying for it, though some who are more angry about this are in favor of that tactic.

I don’t think the Chiefs would actually do it, but it IS an example of how the Chiefs have leverage that Jones and his agents were either unaware of or unconcerned about.

I don’t know if the 49ers can do it with Bosa,

but you’re talking about a much smaller salary there, with no impact to the franchise tag. So there’s no incentive for the team for it.

Originally Posted by jettio

If the first franchise tag is $32.5 million why would $27 million be considered a good offer?



Maybe if it was 3 new years with the third year 2026 vesting in summer 2025.



If franchise tag is 120% of 2023 cap hit. Chiefs have to own the cap hit number number they agreed to.



Chiefs are saying they do not want to extend him unless he bails them out from the 2024 franchise tag number.



Chiefs should just offer Jones to play out current contract and give him a small signing bonus on a voidable 2024 to get some 2023 cap relief and promise not to franchise tag him in 2024.



Let him walk for a comp pick or consider making an offer in 2024 when he can negotiate with all the other teams.

The first franchise tag WOULD have been that, but it’s not going to be now. It’s already 1.5M lower because he loses a game check for not reporting during preseason. And the team doesn’t have to and likely wouldn’t offer him that (unless it had a trade lined up that Jones and his rep agreed to before the start of FA).

27.5M for 24 and 25 and $50M of additional guarantees is a good deal for Jones because it’s $7M clear of the AAV Javon Hargrove just got in FA at the same age Jones would be hitting FA, coming off a similarly productive season as Jones’ 2022.

It’s well clear of AAV in new money that younger players who are close to Jones in value and impact just got.

It would make him the highest-paid DT other than Aaron Donald, by a percentage that is considered “market re-setting.”

The Chiefs get little value at this point from the offer you propose. Take on a dead cap hit to bail him out of the shitty situation HE created (that is also a negative for the team)? What does the team get out of that? Him not holding out any more?

He has more to lose on a holdout than the team does.