Brett Veach hopes Chris Jones can play next week; increased talks last 2 days

[RunKC]

For the mega thread hating crew

#Chiefs GM Brett Veach says he's hopeful that DT Chris Jones will play in their season opener vs. the Lions, which is just eight days away.

Veach mentioned that there has been increased communication on an extension over the past two days. pic.twitter.com/MpLGt0mYhz

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) August 30, 2023

[GoForIt]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I love mahomes’ contract. I don’t think that’s the roadblock. The problem was that we had a few years with an unprecedented amount of superstar QBs “playing for free.” So teams were throwing way too much cash at position players.

This offseason you’re seeing way more restraint. And not a coincidence it’s a year where guys like Herbert, hurts and hell even guys like Daniel jones now have to get paid. It’s why guys like DHop stayed on the market for a million years. It’s why every rb is holding out. Teams are resetting the market because QBs are taking up way more payroll. Chris jones’ agent is playing by old rules. If he was on the market a year or 2 ago, maybe, but this year he’d be harder pressed to find anyone who’d give him Aaron Donald money. Because Donald was paid at a very different time from a team who was desperate to win ASAP.

Yes. The NFL landscape forever changed when Mahomes signed his goliath deal. Now every single "good" QB is taking up a huge chunk of the cap and teams can no longer pay their other marquee players. Dhop is a great example but Jones is even better one. Also, GMs are looking at the Rams and Tampa and don't want to be in the dumpster after a couple of years of contending. I believe Veach wants to mirror the Pats as much as he can but the QB market is not going to allow him to be. He is going to have get even more creative than Bill had to IMO.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Defensive tackles who are at or approaching 30 have diminishing leverage.

Just because more $$$ will be available, doesn't mean teams are going to change their calculus on who to pay that big $$$ to... RB's, older DT's, etc.

If Jones was a FA, he'd get Aaron Donald money.

When they're the centerpiece of a defense, yeah, they have some leverage.

[KSCHIEF]

This may have been posted already but it's an interesting read on the Jones contract situation. If these numbers are true KC is offering a hell of a contract and 95 should of signed it 2 weeks ago...

Thoughts on the Chiefs Offer to Chris JonesPosted on September 3, 2023 by Jason Fitzgerald

Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk put an article up today detailing where the Chiefs and Chris Jones stand on a contract. Per Florio, the Chiefs have offered Jones a three year, $74 million contract and that Jones would settle for a three year, $84.5 million contract. The numbers in the article are framed in a way to make the contract look much lesser than the recent Aaron Donald contract with the Rams but I think that fails to take into account the way that the Chiefs and many others around the NFL would likely view the offer.

The thing with contracts that often leads to the most confusion in the NFL is the concept of how to value a contract extension. A contract extension is typically valued based on the “new money” in a contract. The calculation is simple. Add up all of the money in the contract and subtract from that the money that is owed to the player on his current contract and then you have the new money in the deal. Divide that by the number of new years and you come up with the average per year on the contract.

The valuation in this manner makes sense. Essentially you are buying out a player’s free agency early and this new money is the value you are giving the player. Some constantly look down on this method of contract valuation saying it inflates the contract’s value but when you run through it logically it is the most fair way to value a deal and create a system that allows for teams to be extended prior to the expiration of their current contract- if every player demanded that a current year be ripped up a team would simply wait until the contract expires to make an offer.

However, there are rare instances where teams have agreed to negotiate as if the current contract does not exist. That occurred last season with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay and then later with Aaron Donald with the Rams, which is pertinent to the Jones negotiation. Donald had three years remaining on his prior contract at a total value of $55 million. The Rams replaced those salaries with new salaries that totaled $95 million. With no new years added it was clear that this was just being viewed as a replacement contract and that is how we arrived at the value of $31.67 million for Donald.


The decision by the Rams to do that deal was likely very controversial among NFL front offices. From the Rams point of view they probably did not look at this as paying nearly $32 million for Donald but rather as a modification of his original six year, $22.5 million per year contract, bringing the value of the contract to about $29.2 million per year. It would not surprise me if this is how most NFL teams are trying to spin the Donald numbers when dealing with other pass rushers and defensive tackles.

The numbers reported by Florio are based on the idea that the Chiefs would follow a similar path as the Rams and just assume that this year doesn’t exist when it comes to doing a deal with Jones. I would think it is doubtful the Chiefs are thinking that way and in many ways the offer likely shows that.

The $74.5 million offer works out to $24.8 million a year, but if we value this as new money, it represents an offer from the Chiefs worth $55 million in new money over two new years, an average of $27.5 million. That number is a “cleaner” figure than the $74.5 million which certainly leads me to believe the Chiefs are taking a traditional approach to the contract valuation. The $84.5 million that Florio says is the magic number would lead to a new money total of $65 million, or $32.5 million a season, which would blow away any other extension for a non-QB and fly past Donald’s number.

$27.5 million a season is certainly a fair offer that splits the market between Donald and everyone else. $32.5 million is probably too rich for the Chiefs. For the most part almost all of the past history is on the Chiefs side other than Donald. Contracts are valued using new money. Older pass rushers (Von Miller, Chandler Jones, Cam Jordan) have all signed contracts that averaged anywhere from $13 million to $20 million a season. The Chiefs offer blows those numbers away.

So when it comes to evaluating offers made to Jones it is important to keep in mind the way that typical contracts are valued to see how the offer compares to the market, the majority of which are valued on the basis of new money.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by O.city

If Jones was a FA, he'd get Aaron Donald money.

When they're the centerpiece of a defense, yeah, they have some leverage.

You think teams are going to line up to give Chris Jones an Aaron Donald-caliber contract when Aaron Donald's massive contract extension already looks like a disaster?

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He’s been nothing but a great teammate and leader. I agree, it’s a pride thing above all. He got bad advice from his agent and now he’s hit a point of no return where he can’t accept our reasonable offer without swallowing a lot of his pride.

It’s not just us. I don’t know if we’ve see an offseason with this many holdouts. It’s the offseason where QBs have swallowed up an enormous amount of payroll. We just can’t afford to pay other positions the way we used to.

This is very much like the Brown Jr situation except Jones has one year left on his deal. Once KC removed the tag from Brown Jr we all knew he was never coming back and pride would be a huge reason why.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

You think teams are going to line up to give Chris Jones an Aaron Donald-caliber contract when Aaron Donald's massive contract extension already looks like a disaster?

If he was a FA, unencumbered by a tag or anything, yeah, I'd imagine he'd get close to that.

Whether he's "worth" that is I guess a different question

[GoForIt]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

You think teams are going to line up to give Chris Jones an Aaron Donald-caliber contract when Aaron Donald's massive contract extension already looks like a disaster?

It only looks like a disaster because the Rams went all in on all of their marquee player contracts and also mortgaged all their draft picks. They did get one ring so perhaps they believe it was worth it ... Donald is worth the money he is being paid.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by GoForIt

Yes. The NFL landscape forever changed when Mahomes signed his goliath deal. Now every single "good" QB is taking up a huge chunk of the cap and teams can no longer pay their other marquee players. Dhop is a great example but Jones is even better one. Also, GMs are looking at the Rams and Tampa and don't want to be in the dumpster after a couple of years of contending. I believe Veach wants to mirror the Pats as much as he can but the QB market is not going to allow him to be. He is going to have get even more creative than Bill had to IMO.

But mahomes didn’t break the market. If he set the market, then lesser QBs would slot themselves under mahomes. Hell, he should be way above everyone else. That’s largely not happening. Lesser QBs insist mahomes is underpaid.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by O.city

If he was a FA, unencumbered by a tag or anything, yeah, I'd imagine he'd get close to that.

Whether he's "worth" that is I guess a different question

There is a reason the top 5 DT's in terms of AAV salary are 26 or younger... except Aaron Donald.

Aaron Donald was the exception and it has failed miserably.

[O.city]

If the Chiefs continue to draft and develop like they had, would a Jones extension really affect them?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

There is a reason the top 5 DT's in terms of AAV salary are 26 or younger... except Aaron Donald.

Aaron Donald was the exception and it has failed miserably.

None of them have actually hit the market, save for Hargrave and he still got a really good deal.

So again, if he was fully open to the market, yeah, I'd guess he'd get stupid money somewhere.

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by KSCHIEF

This may have been posted already but it's an interesting read on the Jones contract situation. If these numbers are true KC is offering a hell of a contract and 95 should of signed it 2 weeks ago...

Thoughts on the Chiefs Offer to Chris JonesPosted on September 3, 2023 by Jason Fitzgerald

Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk put an article up today detailing where the Chiefs and Chris Jones stand on a contract. Per Florio, the Chiefs have offered Jones a three year, $74 million contract and that Jones would settle for a three year, $84.5 million contract. The numbers in the article are framed in a way to make the contract look much lesser than the recent Aaron Donald contract with the Rams but I think that fails to take into account the way that the Chiefs and many others around the NFL would likely view the offer.

The thing with contracts that often leads to the most confusion in the NFL is the concept of how to value a contract extension. A contract extension is typically valued based on the “new money” in a contract. The calculation is simple. Add up all of the money in the contract and subtract from that the money that is owed to the player on his current contract and then you have the new money in the deal. Divide that by the number of new years and you come up with the average per year on the contract.

The valuation in this manner makes sense. Essentially you are buying out a player’s free agency early and this new money is the value you are giving the player. Some constantly look down on this method of contract valuation saying it inflates the contract’s value but when you run through it logically it is the most fair way to value a deal and create a system that allows for teams to be extended prior to the expiration of their current contract- if every player demanded that a current year be ripped up a team would simply wait until the contract expires to make an offer.

However, there are rare instances where teams have agreed to negotiate as if the current contract does not exist. That occurred last season with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay and then later with Aaron Donald with the Rams, which is pertinent to the Jones negotiation. Donald had three years remaining on his prior contract at a total value of $55 million. The Rams replaced those salaries with new salaries that totaled $95 million. With no new years added it was clear that this was just being viewed as a replacement contract and that is how we arrived at the value of $31.67 million for Donald.


The decision by the Rams to do that deal was likely very controversial among NFL front offices. From the Rams point of view they probably did not look at this as paying nearly $32 million for Donald but rather as a modification of his original six year, $22.5 million per year contract, bringing the value of the contract to about $29.2 million per year. It would not surprise me if this is how most NFL teams are trying to spin the Donald numbers when dealing with other pass rushers and defensive tackles.

The numbers reported by Florio are based on the idea that the Chiefs would follow a similar path as the Rams and just assume that this year doesn’t exist when it comes to doing a deal with Jones. I would think it is doubtful the Chiefs are thinking that way and in many ways the offer likely shows that.

The $74.5 million offer works out to $24.8 million a year, but if we value this as new money, it represents an offer from the Chiefs worth $55 million in new money over two new years, an average of $27.5 million. That number is a “cleaner” figure than the $74.5 million which certainly leads me to believe the Chiefs are taking a traditional approach to the contract valuation. The $84.5 million that Florio says is the magic number would lead to a new money total of $65 million, or $32.5 million a season, which would blow away any other extension for a non-QB and fly past Donald’s number.

$27.5 million a season is certainly a fair offer that splits the market between Donald and everyone else. $32.5 million is probably too rich for the Chiefs. For the most part almost all of the past history is on the Chiefs side other than Donald. Contracts are valued using new money. Older pass rushers (Von Miller, Chandler Jones, Cam Jordan) have all signed contracts that averaged anywhere from $13 million to $20 million a season. The Chiefs offer blows those numbers away.

So when it comes to evaluating offers made to Jones it is important to keep in mind the way that typical contracts are valued to see how the offer compares to the market, the majority of which are valued on the basis of new money.

Mike Florio is a bundle of AIDS sticks

[GoForIt]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

But mahomes didn’t break the market. If he set the market, then lesser QBs would slot themselves under mahomes. Hell, he should be way above everyone else. That’s largely not happening. Lesser QBs insist mahomes is underpaid.

Mahomes is going to get paid again most likely this off-season ... I mean why do you think Veach is not caving to Jones?

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by GoForIt

LOL

What part of his statement is inaccurate and why?

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by GoForIt

Mahomes is going to get paid again most likely this off-season ... I mean why do you think Veach is not caving to Jones?

Because it sets a bad precedent for Creed, Sneed, Trey, and Bolton amongst others.