Let's Talk About Baltimore (AFC Championship)

[SHOWTIME]

Headed back to the AFC Championship Game!!!! Discuss.

[RedinTexas]

Originally Posted by StalkRavenMad

There is no team that is playing this laye on the season that feels like they are playing with House money. In 2000 we weren't playing with House Money we were he'll bent on proving we were the best defense ever and the only way to do that is win a SB. In 2012 we were he'll bent on sending Ray Lewis out on top and they o lt way to do that is to won the SB.

If you are as great as you say you are and Mahomes wants to be the GOAT. He's going to need more SBs. 7- 2 won't do it.

You know Patrick Mahomes is only 28, right? You know Tom Brady played until he was 45, right?

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by StalkRavenMad

I'm getting it now on Planet Chief nothingnwlse matters but Planet Chief. Got it now.

Then why are you still here?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by New World Order

Kelce is second in most receiving yards in playoff history, only behind Jerry Rice.

That feels relevant even in the face of the Mighty Mark Andrews...

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I think there has been discussion about other position groups. I'm happy to go there.

QB: Chiefs
RB: Chiefs (assuming Pacheco plays)
WR: Ravens
TE: Chiefs
OL: Push (Ravens better at T, Chiefs better at IOL, good overall units)

DL: Chiefs
LB: Ravens
CB: Chiefs
S: Ravens

K: Slight edge Ravens (both excellent)
P: Chiefs

What I think is being missed outside Kansas City is how good the Chiefs' defense is. There's some talk about it, sure, but many are still overlooking it and looking at the Ravens' flashy, blowout wins instead. The Miami blowout particularly seems to garner a lot of credit, despite the Chiefs' essentially giving up in 2 games (against healthier versions of the Miami offense) what the Ravens gave up in one game. There is a perception the Ravens D is on a different tier from the Chiefs, and I think that's wrong/off.

The Chiefs defense is better than any D the Ravens have played this year. (Same can be said of the Ravens re: the Chiefs).

So then you're on to comparing the offenses and what they can do versus the opponents defense. And that's where the QB comparison discussion really takes hold, because it starts with elite Ds and how they handle QBs.

The Chiefs' offense has been held back LESS by its WR room talent level and more by penalties and drops. The scheme is still strong, and Mahomes is still performing at the highest level (Christmas Day game being a notable exception).

If KC's receiving targets catch the ball and the team avoids high penalty counts again, the Chiefs' offense adds the efficiency back and becomes damn difficult to stop, again.

The Ravens are a really good team. I don't think they're the unstoppable juggernaut superteam that DVOA would suggest they are (as we've discussed). And we've all watched the Chiefs and Mahomes dismantle #1 defenses they're not supposed to be able to handle repeatedly since he took the QB1 role, so... we're confident.

None of the evals you did here are unreasonable. But the problem with this back-of-the-napkin roster comparison is it doesn't take into consideration the degree of "better than" or "worse than." I would argue there are a few position groups here where the Ravens are significantly better than the Chiefs (LB and S) but not vice versa. And also, how/why are we saying the Chiefs are better at QB even though the Ravens have the MVP QB? Better at RB even though the Ravens have a higher Y/A and the highest yards per game in the NFL?

As you can tell from that analysis, you can argue this endlessly. Which is where something like DVOA would come in, because it's standardizing its evals and adjusting them based on situation. That gets laughed at here, but I'm not sure how else to try to be objective. I would mention PFF grades, but I imagine that will get an even more raucous response.

As to the Chiefs D, I think it's fair to point out that it's the best defense the Chiefs have fielded in the Mahomes era. But my question would be, is it a difference making defense?

You say the Ravens haven't played a tougher defense, but they played the Browns twice. And yet, when push came to shove in the playoffs, the Browns defense couldn't make a difference in their game against the Texans. I think it's worth nothing that the Ravens also play their own defense every single day.

I think the Chiefs' D has been competent all year. But without the benefit of a home crowd rattling the opposing offense, and when the other team is throwing the kitchen sink out on offense, is the Chiefs D a difference maker? Genuine question. Because as a Ravens fan, I've seen many "good" defenses. But there's a difference between ones that make a difference and can get a stop when needed and ones that look good on paper but don't rise to the occasion given the natural bias toward offenses.

[seamonster]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yeah, that's why it's so strange ya'll are here trying so hard to convince us the Ravens are amazing because of regular season MVPs and DVOA.... I would have guessed the bar was set higher for the franchise.

I get it for say Bengals fans, who went from one of the worst franchises ever to being in AFCCG/SBs, or Bills fans who spent 20 years looking up at Brady..... you go from 5-win seasons to the playoffs and you think the hard part is over and all playoff teams are basically the same.

Hell, we did it as Chiefs fans for decades.... "just get into the playoffs and anything can happen!"... and then demanding respect because they finally won a WC game.

I'd think a franchise who's had the full range of great regular season/one and done, Super Bowl victories, etc; wouldn't so loudly count their eggs before they're hatched.

And you'd think a franchise built on Martyball (Ozzie Newsome is a Marty disciple) would have a little bit of perspective.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I dunno. I'm kinda the other way now

The Ravens would trade Lamar for Allen without a moment's hesitation. The Bills would not trade Allen for Lamar.

I don't even think this is particularly close.

The issue is that the Ravens defense is much better than Buffalo's, especially the Buffalo defense we saw last week.

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by RedinTexas

No, you're misrepresenting my comments. My comments are solely intended to point out that comparing the Ravens franchise history to the history of any other team in the NFL is like comparing apples and oranges. Your all-time winning percentage is heavily skewed by the fact that you have a start date that is nothing more than your moving date. it allows the Ravens to compare their all-time winning percentage to others while using an artificial timeline.

You referenced the entirety of your franchise history in the comment that I originally referenced. I am merely pointing out that such a comment is heavily biased by the fact that you're not a normal franchise.

I think I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you need to bias the numbers to see how successful the Ravens have been.

They have the fourth most wins in the NFL since they've come into existence in 1996. Second most road playoff wins in NFL history after only the Cowboys/Packers who are tied. Two Super Bowls. 5 AFCCG appearances. These are numbers that hold up in absolute terms and not just based on percentages.

[StalkRavenMad]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

If I say "tell me something impressive" and you say "I drove to work today", and I laugh at you... and you say "well, I also microwaved my own lunch", and I laugh at you again.... that's not me "moving the goalposts," the issue is your pathetic definition of impressive.

Hope that clears it up.

Except that's not what you did. If you ask me to tell something impressive and I tell you that Lamar Jackson just turned 27 years old and has won his 2nd MVP then you turn around and say yea but what has he done in the playoffs thats moving the goal post. You went from how did the Browns beat the Ravens to well what is his PO record. If that isn't totally removing the goalposts than there aren't any goal post on Planet Chiefs.

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Ravens would trade Lamar for Allen without a moment's hesitation. The Bills would not trade Allen for Lamar.

I don't even think this is particularly close.

The issue is that the Ravens defense is much better than Buffalo's, especially the Buffalo defense we saw last week.

The Ravens would not trade Lamar Jackson for Josh Allen. The end.

[Bearcat]

We get accused of "riding meat" with Mahomes, yet every. single. post.... mentions regular season MVP.

Yeah, we still don't care about that.

Beat Mahomes this weekend and then we'll talk.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Ravens would trade Lamar for Allen without a moment's hesitation. The Bills would not trade Allen for Lamar.

I don't even think this is particularly close.

The issue is that the Ravens defense is much better than Buffalo's, especially the Buffalo defense we saw last week.

I had agreed with PGM too much lately, needed to go against him to keep the force in balance.

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

So glad you said this.

This morning I thought, how crazy is it that a few years ago all anyone talked about was "Lamar vs. Mahomes" as the big time rivalry.

Feels like a lifetime ago. Since then it's gone back and forth between Burrow and Allen.

There is only one constant.

If we’re being honest. Burrow/Cinci are our only true rivals. Since Brady is gone they’re the only team that’s dropped an L on us in the playoffs.

[O.city]

The Ravens let Lamar go try to get a deal elsewhere.

Yeah, they'd trade him for Josh Allen. In a second.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That feels relevant even in the face of the Mighty Mark Andrews...

Mark Andrews’ career playoff stats…

20 catches, 212 yards receiving and 0 TD’s in 5 career playoff games.

Ravens fans see that as “elite”.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Mark Andrews’ career playoff stats…

20 catches, 212 yards receiving and 0 TD’s in 5 career playoff games.

Ravens fans see that as “elite”.

But he had more TDs this year than Kelce had in 17 games. So he's definitely better.