Chiefs WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil - Page 4

Hammock Parties · 10-14-2008, 11:00 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html

In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon:

The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods.

When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair.

“It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.”

Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent.

Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault.

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

Carl Peterson is responsible for that.

Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem.

It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free.

It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk.

Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team.

•Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process.

•Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season.

•Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary.

•Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free.

•And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement.

All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock.

Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises.

But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge.

Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille.

It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money.

You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection.

Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony.

Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl?

The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

And I will. Herm is a terrible HC. He needs to go along with Carl. This organization needs a fresh start.

Yup.

I was a Herm supporter. I figured his positives would outweigh the negatives.

Nope, wrong.

And I'm not willing to give him 10 ****ing years to put the finishing touches on a rebuild that should have started day 1.

If you're the HC/GM of the Chiefs at that time and didn't see the need to heavily infuse youth and talent you're eating paint chips under power lines and washing it down with antifreeze...

triple · 10-15-2008, 07:14 AM

Carl seems to make decisions just to assert his own authority. You don't want to play for my team? Well, let's see how much I can stick it to you then...

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple

Carl seems to make decisions just to assert his own authority.

Stryker · 10-15-2008, 07:17 AM

I call bullshit. This has nothing to do with Carl Peterson - this has EVERYTHING to do with Clark Hunt. If Clark had a set of nuts, he would have cleaned house in the front office IMEDIATELY! A great example is Miami - look what a swift changing of the guard has done for that team ala Bill Parcels. I am sooooo ****ing sick of this team right now I could scream. Never have I seen such a cluster **** since day one of being a Chiefs fan. I love this team but I do not understand it's ownership. Kick that grease ball shit head Carl Peterson outta here and his entire staff. Tell him to take the remainder of his contract and shove it up his ass!

Clark should have stepped up to the plate and taken anything for Tony Gonzales -3rd, 4th, hell even a 6th. It is about respecting this calibur of player. Greed stopped this trade and now, you have a pro bowl player who is really pissed off. This is going to get a helluva lot worse friends - big time. I used to love game day - now I just want the season to end and wait for a change that will not come for quite sometime.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker

I call bullshit. This has nothing to do with Carl Peterson - this has EVERYTHING to do with Clark Hunt. If Clark had a set of nuts, he would have cleaned house in the front office IMEDIATELY!
...

He should have.

Starting with a clean slate (even if the spectres of history tailed him) he should have went with a new GM/HC/Pres...

triple · 10-15-2008, 07:21 AM

hopefully Clark realizes what a cluster this team is turning into, and that the town, i mean organization, needs an enema

**dirk digler** · 10-15-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple

Carl seems to make decisions just to assert his own authority. You don't want to play for my team? Well, let's see how much I can stick it to you then...

Pretty much.

FAX · 10-15-2008, 07:25 AM

Okay ... here's another wacky deal for you ...

This strange person on 810 just said a moment ago that Herm wanted to sit LJ for awhile for "conduct detrimental to the team" and Carl vetoed that idea. Said, "no, you can't do that." Has anyone heard anything about this?

FAX

**dirk digler** · 10-15-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Okay ... here's another wacky deal for you ...

This strange person on 810 just said a moment ago that Herm wanted to sit LJ for awhile for "conduct detrimental to the team" and Carl vetoed that idea. Said, "no, you can't do that." Has anyone heard anything about this?

FAX

HOLY ****ING SHIT... Now I do feel kind of sorry for Herm...just a little

Deberg_1990 · 10-15-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple

hopefully Clark realizes what a cluster this team is turning into, and that the town, i mean organization, needs an enema

If he doesnt after this year, id say there is no hope for the man. I even might consider switching allegiance to a different team for awhile.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Okay ... here's another wacky deal for you ...

This strange person on 810 just said a moment ago that Herm wanted to sit LJ for awhile for "conduct detrimental to the team" and Carl vetoed that idea. Said, "no, you can't do that." Has anyone heard anything about this?

FAX

Sounds like BS.

Marty did the same to DT during the 94 game at mile high. I don't think DT got in the game until about midway into the 2nd quarter.

If true it means Marty had more pull than Herm, not that this would shock anyone...

Chiefnj2 · 10-15-2008, 07:28 AM

Carl deserves to be fired immediately for hiring Herm in the first place.

Carl certainly doesn't deserve the blame for all of the recent personnel decisions. We've seen Carl bring in very different types of players depending on who was the head coach. Carl certainly listens to his head coach and tries to bring in the guys the coach asks for. When Gun was head coach the team brought in bigger physical players. Vermeil came on and he got his OL, QB and HB and GROB got his players. Gun came in as DC and got his infamous wish list (a year after saying he didn't need anybody it was just the scheme that wasn't working). Herm came aboard and got rid of the Vermeil offensive players and he brought in a bunch of old Jets and put his stamp on the drafts.

No doubt Carl apparently botched the trade of Tony yesterday, but at the end of the day nobody held a gun to Tony's head when he reupped his contract. He knew the direction of the team and he knew Herms ways when he signed on the dotted line.

The entire organization needed to be blown up when DV retired. Clark had the opportunity to do so when his dad passed away, but like his father Clark has sat passively by the first two years and bought into Herm and Carl.

Each and every person in the organization is to blame from the owner on down.

triple · 10-15-2008, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Pretty much.

it obviously wasn't about the pick. Carl thought he could play it cool and get what he wanted, Tony would have to shut up because no one gave them a "reasonable" offer.

Carl and Tony and everyone know he's not a part of the rebuilt future of the team. Carl just doesn't want to be without a star player and draw for the fans in the interim.

He didn't expect to get not one but two reasonable offers. So even though one of them may have been from the team that Tony specifically wanted to go to, Carl decides he'll just say screw you.

What's best for the team in trying to win a championship at some point is not the primary issue to him

triple · 10-15-2008, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

No doubt Carl apparently botched the trade of Tony yesterday, but at the end of the day nobody held a gun to Tony's head when he reupped his contract. He knew the direction of the team and he knew Herms ways when he signed on the dotted line.

tony's contract extension predates Herm and this rebuild business, does it not

FAX · 10-15-2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

Sounds like BS.

Marty did the same to DT during the 94 game at mile high. I don't think DT got in the game until about midway into the 2nd quarter.

If true it means Marty had more pull than Herm, not that this would shock anyone...

It was a bizarre statement. The context was the Gonzo deal and the attendant conflict between the two Morons In Charge.

One would think that, were it really true, it would be a bigger story ... Mr. BigRedChief needs to clear this up.

FAX

10-14-2008, 11:00 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon: The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods. When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair. “It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.” Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent. Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault. You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs. Carl Peterson is responsible for that. Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem. It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free. It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk. Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team. •Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process. •Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season. •Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary. •Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free. •And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement. All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock. Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises. But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge. Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille. It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money. You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection. Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony. Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl? The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.
Posts: 297,336

10-15-2008, 07:14 AM	#47
triple Stop saying &quot;This.&quot; Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	Carl seems to make decisions just to assert his own authority. You don't want to play for my team? Well, let's see how much I can stick it to you then... __________________
Posts: 2,110

10-15-2008, 07:17 AM	#49
Stryker Super Bowl LVIII Champions! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Casino cash: $-415364	I call bullshit. This has nothing to do with Carl Peterson - this has EVERYTHING to do with Clark Hunt. If Clark had a set of nuts, he would have cleaned house in the front office IMEDIATELY! A great example is Miami - look what a swift changing of the guard has done for that team ala Bill Parcels. I am sooooo **ing sick of this team right now I could scream. Never have I seen such a cluster ** since day one of being a Chiefs fan. I love this team but I do not understand it's ownership. Kick that grease ball shit head Carl Peterson outta here and his entire staff. Tell him to take the remainder of his contract and shove it up his ass! Clark should have stepped up to the plate and taken anything for Tony Gonzales -3rd, 4th, hell even a 6th. It is about respecting this calibur of player. Greed stopped this trade and now, you have a pro bowl player who is really pissed off. This is going to get a helluva lot worse friends - big time. I used to love game day - now I just want the season to end and wait for a change that will not come for quite sometime. __________________ Super Bowl LVIII Champions!
Posts: 6,532

10-15-2008, 07:21 AM	#51
triple Stop saying &quot;This.&quot; Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $10004900	hopefully Clark realizes what a cluster this team is turning into, and that the town, i mean organization, needs an enema __________________
Posts: 2,110

10-15-2008, 07:25 AM	#53
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Okay ... here's another wacky deal for you ... This strange person on 810 just said a moment ago that Herm wanted to sit LJ for awhile for "conduct detrimental to the team" and Carl vetoed that idea. Said, "no, you can't do that." Has anyone heard anything about this? FAX
Posts: 44,492

10-15-2008, 07:28 AM	#57
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	Carl deserves to be fired immediately for hiring Herm in the first place. Carl certainly doesn't deserve the blame for all of the recent personnel decisions. We've seen Carl bring in very different types of players depending on who was the head coach. Carl certainly listens to his head coach and tries to bring in the guys the coach asks for. When Gun was head coach the team brought in bigger physical players. Vermeil came on and he got his OL, QB and HB and GROB got his players. Gun came in as DC and got his infamous wish list (a year after saying he didn't need anybody it was just the scheme that wasn't working). Herm came aboard and got rid of the Vermeil offensive players and he brought in a bunch of old Jets and put his stamp on the drafts. No doubt Carl apparently botched the trade of Tony yesterday, but at the end of the day nobody held a gun to Tony's head when he reupped his contract. He knew the direction of the team and he knew Herms ways when he signed on the dotted line. The entire organization needed to be blown up when DV retired. Clark had the opportunity to do so when his dad passed away, but like his father Clark has sat passively by the first two years and bought into Herm and Carl. Each and every person in the organization is to blame from the owner on down. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541