Chiefs Herm\Carl take Chiefs to new low!!! - Page 15

**petegz28** · 10-14-2008, 02:38 PM

Ok, I know there was a lot of drama over the trades but the reality is we have AT LEAST 2, and in that case our BEST 2, players that want out from under Carl, Herm and the Chiefs. So after Allen opined in the same manner last year, one has to wonder how many people on this team really want to be here?

So who is the next one to want out from the disaster Herm and Co have created? Bowe? Charles? Flowers or Carr?

You can debate whether TG and LJ are right or wrong all you want. The fact is we have a team now where the best guys don't want to be here.

WAY TO ****ING REBUILD CARL!!!

Herm has ruined this team where Carl couldn't.

RedThat · 10-15-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Green was playing some good football for a bad "Skin team, which is the reason that Martz brought him to the Rams.

He was having a monster preseason before Harrison took out his knees, and looked great every time he got a chance in STL. after he came back from the injury.

He was already developed when he came to KC.
The rest of the offense had to catch up to him.

Developing a punter?

Then why did Trent have a terrible season his 1st season here? please explain.

Reerun_KC · 10-15-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

Then why did Trent have a terrible season his 1st season here? please explain.

Seriously?

WOW!

Brock · 10-15-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

Then why did Trent have a terrible season his 1st season here? please explain.

Because he was trying to throw the ball to yet another Vermeil draft pick reject, Snoop Minnis?

milkman · 10-15-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

Then why did Trent have a terrible season his 1st season here? please explain.

Because the offense Saunders implemented is one of the most complex in football, and it took the rest of the team a season to grasp it well enough for Green to be successful.

RedThat · 10-15-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

That's taking veteran players that fit and plugging them into a designed offense.

And thats what every coach does. Whether its a veteran or a rookie?

Some are more successful then doing it then others.

That can still be considered development. coaches will find players who they feel can play on his team to play for him in his system and utilize his strengths, and talents to the advantage of the system and in large part to the benefit of the player. No different then bringing out the best in a player.

milkman · 10-15-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

So a player basically has to have zero successful seasons, basically start all from scratch with nothing, and work under that same head coach for years in order for a developmental process to take place?

Green had a solid season in '98 with the 'Skins, even while getting sacked a ton in 13 or 14 starts.

He was almost spectacular every time he took the field for the Rams in 2000.

RedThat · 10-15-2008, 10:57 AM

Heres an example look at Pittsburgh. They have no problems finding the "right" linebackers to play in a 3-4. they've done it for years. And have developed some great linebackers. What are you gonna say? thats just taking veteran players and plugging them into a designed system?

At the same time theyre still playing well. Still making progress. Still making plays. They just find the "right" guys that can play in 3-4 scheme and they take advantage of the players strengths and skills, and utilize to the benefit of the team and the player. the team gets player and the player gets better.

milkman · 10-15-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

And thats what every coach does. Whether its a veteran or a rookie?

Some are more successful then doing it then others.

That can still be considered development. coaches will find players who they feel can play on his team to play for him in his system and utilize his strengths, and talents to the advantage of the system and in large part to the benefit of the player. No different then bringing out the best in a player.

Deloping players is taking raw talent and molding it.

Brock · 10-15-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBull

Heres an example look at Pittsburgh. They have no problems finding the "right" linebackers to play in a 3-4. they've done it for years. And have developed some great linebackers. What are you gonna say? thats just taking veteran players and plugging them into a designed system?

At the same time theyre still playing well. Still making progress. Still making plays. They just find the "right" guys that can play in 3-4 scheme and they take advantage of the players strengths and skills, and utilize to the benefit of the team and the player. the team gets player and the player gets better.

If they're taking veteran players and plugging them into their system, they're not developing the players. Seriously, I don't think you know what the word develop means.

Chiefnj2 · 10-15-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

If they're taking veteran players and plugging them into their system, they're not developing the players. Seriously, I don't think you know what the word develop means.

Why can't development include taking an average player and developing them into very good or great players?

FAX · 10-15-2008, 11:14 AM

Think of a player as a chunk of dough. Some guys are like the pre-baked pastry you purchase in the freezer section. All you have to do is jam them full of filling and they're pretty good. Other guys are just a bunch of raw flour and water and some shortning. They require work ("development") in order to become pastries. Other guys, of course, come out of the oven all burnt and crappy and you take those guys and you curse and yell and stuff them in the trash and use all the fans in the house to try and get the smoke and nasty smell out of the kitchen. It's kind of like that.

FAX

milkman · 10-15-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Why can't development include taking an average player and developing them into very good or great players?

Let's take Priest as an example.

He'd had one 1000 yard season prior to signing in KC, but he didn't really fit in the system they ran there.

But he'd already been in the league for 4 years, his blocking and receiving skills had already been developed, and he'd already shown he was a capable RB.

Hell, Dick and Al didn't even really know what they had when they signed him.

All that happened was that he showed with his opportunities that he was the perfect fit for the system.

They didn't develop him.

He was already developed.

Chiefnj2 · 10-15-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Let's take Priest as an example.

He'd had one 1000 yard season prior to signing in KC, but he didn't really fit in the system they ran there.

But he'd already been in the league for 4 years, his blocking and receiving skills had already been developed, and he'd already shown he was a capable RB.

Hell, Dick and Al didn't even really know what they had when they signed him.

All that happened was that he showed with his opportunities that he was the perfect fit for the system.

They didn't develop him.

He was already developed.

What about Welbourn who was a guard developing into a decent RT for the Chiefs while DV was coach?

What about Weigman developing into a better center?

To a lesser extent I'd say they developed Kawika some before he found a better fit with NY and Buffalo.

milkman · 10-15-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

What about Welbourn who was a guard developing into a decent RT for the Chiefs while DV was coach?

What about Weigman developing into a better center?

To a lesser extent I'd say they developed Kawika some before he found a better fit with NY and Buffalo.

If Dick was Wellbourn's supplier, then sure, I'll give him credit there.

As for Weigman, I think that was another case of plugging in player that fit into the system better than the one he came from.

I would argue that this staff stunted Kawika's development.

Brock · 10-15-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

If Dick was Wellbourn's supplier, then sure, I'll give him credit there.

As for Weigman, I think that was another case of plugging in player that fit into the system better than the one he came from.

I would argue that this staff stunted Kawika's development.

Yes to all of that.

10-14-2008, 02:38 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1095873	Herm\Carl take Chiefs to new low!!! Ok, I know there was a lot of drama over the trades but the reality is we have AT LEAST 2, and in that case our BEST 2, players that want out from under Carl, Herm and the Chiefs. So after Allen opined in the same manner last year, one has to wonder how many people on this team really want to be here? So who is the next one to want out from the disaster Herm and Co have created? Bowe? Charles? Flowers or Carr? You can debate whether TG and LJ are right or wrong all you want. The fact is we have a team now where the best guys don't want to be here. WAY TO ****ING REBUILD CARL!!! Herm has ruined this team where Carl couldn't.
Posts: 132,504

10-15-2008, 10:57 AM	#217
RedThat Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Earth Casino cash: $10004900	Heres an example look at Pittsburgh. They have no problems finding the "right" linebackers to play in a 3-4. they've done it for years. And have developed some great linebackers. What are you gonna say? thats just taking veteran players and plugging them into a designed system? At the same time theyre still playing well. Still making progress. Still making plays. They just find the "right" guys that can play in 3-4 scheme and they take advantage of the players strengths and skills, and utilize to the benefit of the team and the player. the team gets player and the player gets better.
Posts: 6,666

10-15-2008, 11:14 AM	#221
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Think of a player as a chunk of dough. Some guys are like the pre-baked pastry you purchase in the freezer section. All you have to do is jam them full of filling and they're pretty good. Other guys are just a bunch of raw flour and water and some shortning. They require work ("development") in order to become pastries. Other guys, of course, come out of the oven all burnt and crappy and you take those guys and you curse and yell and stuff them in the trash and use all the fans in the house to try and get the smoke and nasty smell out of the kitchen. It's kind of like that. FAX
Posts: 44,492