Seriously, Herm has to go

[FringeNC]

I don't think I could remain sane if we played Herm's not-to-lose crap when the games matter. This game is a microcosm of why Herm simply CANNOT be a successful head coach.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by cdcox

The 4th-and-1 argument was introduced to this thread by a Herm supporter. The real argument is that the entire 2nd half was played from a play-not-to-lose perspective.

Amazing, isn't it?

[Nzoner]

Originally Posted by milkman

This.

I don't understand why people are focusing on a single situation when it was clear the Chiefs were in full blown play not to lose mode from the start of the second half.

Some friends and I were talking about this during the Panthers/broncos game,Fox is up by 20 with 9 minutes left in the 4TH QTR(with argubly 2 of the better rb's in the game) and they're doing an end around with Steve Smith to get a first down.

[Boris The Great]

Originally Posted by cdcox

The real argument is that the entire 2nd half was played from a play-not-to-lose perspective.

Hows that, exactly? Did they just run the ball up the centers butt the entire second half? I must have missed it.

Gaileys playcalling was suspect all game long. Was that on Herm? Was Herm pulling the strings when on 3rd and 1, the offense tried a 30 yard fade rout that the announcers practically laughed at for making no sense at all? Or when they ran a hook-and-ladder route that should have gone 5 yards deeper? Or was Gailey just making some dumb calls today?

The offense didnt execute well in the second half. Among other things, how many times did Thigpen throw to a receiver, usually Gonzalez, who was being blanketed by a defender that just swatted the pass away? How many times did they run screen passes that went nowhere because nobody blocked anybody?

Are we to believe that Herm instructed them to do these things? He told Gailey to make dumb calls? He told the offense not to execute?

You want to act like the offense not moving is some kind of directive from Herm. They didnt move the ball, so Herm must have told them not to. It wasnt because of anything the Chargers players did, or the KC players werent doing. No, its because Herm wanted it that way.

The supposed real argument you speak of is a phony argument. You know why we were talking about the punt on 4th and one? Because that is actually a decision Herm made that you can point to and talk about. Not this phantom crap that he told the offense to stop working.

[shaneo69]

Originally Posted by Rigodan

Why would we go for it on 4th and short when we have an 11 point lead, our defense has played well so far and this team has routinely showed that it cannot convert 4th and short all year.

It doesn't matter what the defense has done so far in this game. If you've watched the Chiefs at all this season, you would know that the defense will eventually choke and cost you the game. It doesn't matter if you punt and down it at the SD 5 yard line, or you go for it, don't make it, and give the Chargers the ball at your 40. It doesn't matter. You should know by this point of the season that the defense will choke no matter what the situation. So your only option is to go for it on 4th and 1. You put Thigpen in the shotgun and let him run it.

[KCTitus]

I almost prefer this version of the Chiefs. I dont get my hopes up...at all...and I'm 100% positive that if KC can find a way to lose the game, they will.

I read a few posts about the 4th down on SD's 45...here's my thoughts.

You're 2-11 team...late in the game up by two scores. Why not actually TRY TO WIN the F!ing game! When I saw that, I said game over. Had to laugh, I was watching with some friends, and they were dumbfounded that KC managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like that.

I said, "Hey, you play to win the game, Bitches!"

[ChiefsCountry]

This team sucks, we knew going into the season I dont know why everybody gets all bent out of shape. Herm is a reerun, we knew that as well.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by the_spatula

here's an original idea...

Not original, just correct and right in every possible way.

However, here's a new idea that is ALSO correct and right:

______________________________________________________________________________
People; Joe Rogan must be killed for being a useless Douche who is jealous of Carlos Mencia.

Oh yes! SO right.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Boris The Great

Hows that, exactly? Did they just run the ball up the centers butt the entire second half? I must have missed it.

Gaileys playcalling was suspect all game long. Was that on Herm? Was Herm pulling the strings when on 3rd and 1, the offense tried a 30 yard fade rout that the announcers practically laughed at for making no sense at all? Or when they ran a hook-and-ladder route that should have gone 5 yards deeper? Or was Gailey just making some dumb calls today?

The offense didnt execute well in the second half. Among other things, how many times did Thigpen throw to a receiver, usually Gonzalez, who was being blanketed by a defender that just swatted the pass away? How many times did they run screen passes that went nowhere because nobody blocked anybody?

Are we to believe that Herm instructed them to do these things? He told Gailey to make dumb calls? He told the offense not to execute?

You want to act like the offense not moving is some kind of directive from Herm. They didnt move the ball, so Herm must have told them not to. It wasnt because of anything the Chargers players did, or the KC players werent doing. No, its because Herm wanted it that way.

The supposed real argument you speak of is a phony argument. You know why we were talking about the punt on 4th and one? Because that is actually a decision Herm made that you can point to and talk about. Not this phantom crap that he told the offense to stop working.

At this point? YES. I will merrily, happily, and absolutely believe ALL OF THE ABOVE!
And I will blame Bigfoot and UFO's too! Herm is a ball-sucking, ball-licker to the 100th power! Grrrrrrr.....

[FloridaMan88]

Was Clark on "Chiefs Duty" today to watch this fiasco?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Clark was buggering a young Greek boy while watching Succer in his Sucker Suite.

[BigRock]

Originally Posted by cdcox

The 4th-and-1 argument was introduced to this thread by a Herm supporter.

It was introduced because I actually thought there might be a point to Fringe blabbering his "risk management" crap. Silly me for thinking he meant some specific decision Herm made during the game, and not the completely vague "playing not to lose" BS that keeps getting thrown out like some catchy buzzword that no one can seem to explain.

Originally Posted by cdcox

The real argument is that the entire 2nd half was played from a play-not-to-lose perspective.

I see this question has already been asked and ignored, but please, do explain in what way.

On the Chiefs' opening drive of the game, they marched 96 yards for a touchdown. What revolutionary offensive strategy did they break out to accomplish that feat? They ran it some, Thigpen scrambled here and there, and they threw some short passes. I don't think Thigpen threw a ball farther than 10 yards the entire way. A couple receptions went for 10+ yards, but it was yards after catch.

Tell me what drastic, fundamental change took place in the way they ran the offense in the second half. Give me tangible evidence of Herm forcing some kind of change on the way they were operating.

You can't because there isn't any. They were still throwing those passes. They were still running the ball. Thigpen still scrambled. It didn't work as well. Throws were off, catches weren't made, runs didn't go for as many yards.

A case can certainly be made for Gailey not adjusting well, but that's an entirely different discussion. The topic at hand boils down to little more than "Mommy, the offense isn't moving the ball anymore! WHY DID HERM TELL THEM TO STOP GETTING YARDS?"

That is literally the dumbest interpretation possible, and it's being made by a guy who's all over this thread talking about what other people don't know or don't understand.

IRONY~!

[Fish]

Originally Posted by blaise

I don't see the point in firing Herm now. If you fire him now then why did you let him do this whole "rebuilding" thing on the first place? When Carl and Chiefs management said ok to this rebuild they knew they would suck. Did they think it would be this bad? No, but the line between winning and losing in the NFL is fine. I don't see how going 2-14 is so terribly worse than 5-11. Teams can go from worst to first in the NFL, and it's not that rare for a team to win their division a year after sucking.
That being said, I think the notion of rebuilding is a sham. NFL rosters turn over so fast,75% of the guys will be gone three years from now so I don't think you can plan on just accumulating a bunch of talent. You just need to get as many good players as you can through the draft and free agency.
If the Chiefs had spent some of the money they still have under the cap, if they could have scouted the QB position better, if they hadn't been the only people on the planet not to recognize that Croyle was never, ever going to be an NFL QB, they could have won this division this year. Denver's not good. San Diego's not good. The whole rebuilding concept was a stupid sham. Detroits been rebuilding for years, what good does it do?

You should have stopped after the first paragraph....

Because teams that are run more poorly than ours can't rebuild properly, that doesn't mean it won't work. Several of the most consistent teams in the league right now went through a rebuild and did it correctly. And those teams are built for the long haul, not a one-year playoff anomaly in the midst of a decade of mediocrity...

[Boris The Great]

In light of this thread, I just wanted to point out this article in the Star where Tamba Hali questions the teams offensive strategy in the second half.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/937110.html

Yep, he wants to know why the offense kept throwing the ball all over the yard in the second half, rather than just running and eating up some clock. Exactly what you know Herm wanted to do.

BUT HERM SHUT DOWN THE OFFENSE, HE WAS PLAYING NOT TO LOSE

[whoman69]

The problem with Herm, and Marty in the playoffs, is they say they're playing to win, but they're afraid of losing. In this league you have to consider no league safe. Where is all this talk about playing for 60 minutes like Marty always used to spout. This team went on cruise control for the second half and it got away from them in two minutes. You could blame Gailey, but under Herm I believe that every coach is thinking 'what would Herm want me to do in this situation?'. Ask Mike Solari what its like to try to get off the beaten path with Herm.

You can't take your foot off the pedal in this league.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Werm Scmedwards.