#3 overall pick... a 20 year history - Page 5

**AustinChief** · 02-08-2009, 05:27 PM

08 Matt Ryan
07 Joe Thomas
06 Vince Young
05 Braylon Edwards
04 Larry Fitzgerald
03 Andre Johnson
02 Joey Harrington
01 Gerard Warren
00 Chris Samuels
99 Akili Smith
98 Andre Wadsworth
97 Shawn Springs
96 Simeon Rice
95 Steve McNair
94 Heath Shuler
93 Garrison Hearst
92 Sean Gilbert
91 Bruce Pickens
90 Cortez Kennedy
89 Barry Sanders

Draw your own conclusions. As for myself, if this list is a good indicator, I would go DT, DE, OT or WR... unfortunately we don't have a need that pressing at OT and the DE, DT WR prospects are iffy that high...

I am not in the anti-QB at all cost crowd.. I just really am not sold on THESE two QBs... esp. Stafford...

**AustinChief** · 02-08-2009, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

My opinion of QB's right now is that just being from a pro style offense puts them ahead of where most QB's are, the college spread fixation is hurting the QB transitions to the next level..

And Sanchez isn't a true junior by the way.

OK, but he has only started what... 16 games? I am hoping he is a badass and we get him etc etc... I just don't BELIEVE it right now...

Mecca · 02-08-2009, 11:28 PM

Let me break this down real fast...

Would you personally feel more comfortable with a player who spent 4 years in a pro style offense at one of the best colleges in the nation, that can play from center, has good footwork, good mechanics, a very good arm, mobility, intangibles all that. He only started 1 year but don't overlook that he had 4 years of development with a team that has as competitive of practices as anyone..

Or would you rather have someone like Colt McCoy who has started a ton of games but it's in the spread formation...

I'd tell you in my opinion Sanchez is more ready than McCoy, Bradford, any spread QB.

**doomy3** · 02-08-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

Vince Young had a 51.5% completion rate in is Pro Bowl year. He made the Pro Bowl due to some crazy comebacks. But a 51.5% completion rate is not a sustainable way to win the NFL. Doesn't take a genius to see that. He was actually better in 2007. Then he went batshit crazy in 2008. If he can get his head together (extremely doubtful) he still has a chance.

Matt Ryan's rookie non-Pro-Bowl year shows much, much more promise than VY's pro-bowl year. Matt Ryan's way of winning is based on strong fundamental play. VY's winning in 2006, was based on miracle comebacks that are non-sustainable without strong fundamentals.

I know this. That's why it's insane to pretend that he was a nice pick at #3 and to play him up as a Pro Bowl QB. That's such an abomination.

Almost as bad as calling Joey Harrington an average NFL QB.

**Manila-Chief** · 02-08-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

but either way, they bear the curse of the junior QB... hard to overcome.

Again, if Sanchez stayed in school and had another great year and we sucked enough to be able to draft him I would have been elated... as it is, not so much.

If he does have the talent, intelligence, mental make up, desire, etc. ... to be a QBOTF, it seems to me being a junior will not matter. The staying in school another year will only help the talent evaluator. It seems to me that if he has the tools he can develop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomy3

Honestly, who cares?

Bill Parcells obviously liked Henne and Newsome liked Flacco. Those are two of the best in the business, so I will trust their judgment over yours.

How do we know that Parcells didn't like Flacco? Did he have a chance to draft him? IIRC Flacco went in the 1st. round and Henne in the 2nd.???? It's true Newsome had a chance to draft either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

at this point, I'm sick to ****ing death of 'good, solid starters.' for every year save 1.5 of my 20 year fandom, I've never seen the chiefs with a franchise QB. a guy who could take the team on his back. the 1.5 years I saw it, we went further into the playoffs than we had since the early 70's.

I believe it's worth gambling (which won't be MUCH of a gamble if pioli is all that he's been anointed as) to get that high upside guy (sanchez or stafford)... you draft either (I'd prefer stafford--he's been nails every time I've seen him, but sanchez may have a higher ceiling) and let him sit for at least a year and learn the ropes. you know, get a competant QB coach and offensive coordinator, build the offense around him, and put him in situations where he can build his confidence.

anyway, I digress. the absolute abject fear of QBs around here is baffling. you'd think that everybody would be sick to death of other teams having that guy and shredding us. remember the 90's? just take a look at who beat us in the playoffs. every playoff loss this decade? peyton ****ing manning. srsly. when's it gonna be our turn to have that franchise guy to rip OTHER people's hearts out?

After reading the article about DeBurg teaching QB's, I think the real question should be if the newly drafted QB's get the coaching/teaching that will help them be a success.

I agree, if Pioli thinks the QB that falls to us is worthy of our pick, I'm more than willing to support him drafting the QB. Why, a top quality QB makes it easier for a team to win and can lead us for the next dozen years. Usually, top draft picks have more talent, which helps him be successful.

**cdcox** · 02-08-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomy3

I know this. That's why it's insane to pretend that he was a nice pick at #3 and to play him up as a Pro Bowl QB. That's such an abomination.

Almost as bad as calling Joey Harrington an average NFL QB.

Gotcha.

**Buehler445** · 02-08-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Let me break this down real fast...

Would you personally feel more comfortable with a player who spent 4 years in a pro style offense at one of the best colleges in the nation, that can play from center, has good footwork, good mechanics, a very good arm, mobility, intangibles all that. He only started 1 year but don't overlook that he had 4 years of development with a team that has as competitive of practices as anyone..

Or would you rather have someone like Colt McCoy who has started a ton of games but it's in the spread formation...

I'd tell you in my opinion Sanchez is more ready than McCoy, Bradford, any spread QB.

Quick one for you Mecca, which would you rather have Stafford or Sanchez? Don't give me any crap about who Detroit is taking, staff, team, all that other shit. Which is the best prospect in your opinion?

I want Sanchez.

Mecca · 02-08-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Quick one for you Mecca, which would you rather have Stafford or Sanchez? Don't give me any crap about who Detroit is taking, staff, team, all that other shit. Which is the best prospect in your opinion?

I want Sanchez.

I'd probably give a slight lean to Sanchez...he is more accurate but his arm isn't quite as good but you don't need a rocket launcher to be a good QB.

**doomy3** · 02-08-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manila-Chief

If he does have the talent, intelligence, mental make up, desire, etc. ... to be a QBOTF, it seems to me being a junior will not matter. The staying in school another year will only help the talent evaluator. It seems to me that if he has the tools he can develop.

How do we know that Parcells didn't like Flacco? Did he have a chance to draft him? IIRC Flacco went in the 1st. round and Henne in the 2nd.???? It's true Newsome had a chance to draft either.

After reading the article about DeBurg teaching QB's, I think the real question should be if the newly drafted QB's get the coaching/teaching that will help them be a success.

I agree, if Pioli thinks the QB that falls to us is worthy of our pick, I'm more than willing to support him drafting the QB. Why, a top quality QB makes it easier for a team to win and can lead us for the next dozen years. Usually, top draft picks have more talent, which helps him be successful.

Maybe you missed the whole conversation that post was in reference to...

I didn't say anything about Parcells not liking Flacco. I was just pointing out that two of the brightest minds in football liked those 2 QBs who Mecca didn't, and that I would probably trust their judgement over his.

**AustinChief** · 02-09-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Let me break this down real fast...

Would you personally feel more comfortable with a player who spent 4 years in a pro style offense at one of the best colleges in the nation, that can play from center, has good footwork, good mechanics, a very good arm, mobility, intangibles all that. He only started 1 year but don't overlook that he had 4 years of development with a team that has as competitive of practices as anyone..

Or would you rather have someone like Colt McCoy who has started a ton of games but it's in the spread formation...

I'd tell you in my opinion Sanchez is more ready than McCoy, Bradford, any spread QB.

Would rather have neither. BPA and that is it... I just don't trust junior QBs... end of story... I may be proven wrong this year... but so far the evidence is heavily in my favor....

I would rather trade for a YOUNG QB... I don't mind drafting a QB (see last year) but just not ready for the TOTAL leap of faith that comes with drafting a JUNIOR QB...

**AustinChief** · 02-09-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'd probably give a slight lean to Sanchez...he is more accurate but his arm isn't quite as good but you don't need a rocket launcher to be a good QB.

Ok, I agree 100% here... taking a junior QB is a huge risk... if you are gonna take that risk.. go with a guy like Sanchez.

If I am wrong (hopefully) he could really blow things up...

Also, I am not even sure that Stafford has that MUCH better of an arm...

**Buehler445** · 02-09-2009, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'd probably give a slight lean to Sanchez...he is more accurate but his arm isn't quite as good but you don't need a rocket launcher to be a good QB.

Cool. Thanks.

I don't really have any basis for it, but the few times I saw Stafford, I was not terribly impressed.

But I wasn't impressed with Ryan either.

Shutting up now.

**Manila-Chief** · 02-09-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomy3

Maybe you missed the whole conversation that post was in reference to...

I didn't say anything about Parcells not liking Flacco. I was just pointing out that two of the brightest minds in football liked those 2 QBs who Mecca didn't, and that I would probably trust their judgement over his.

Okay! That's a better explanation!!! And, I agree.

**Manila-Chief** · 02-09-2009, 12:24 AM

First, I’m smart enough to know that scouts evaluate college players much better than I do and I know I may be wrong. As of right now if I were making the #3 pick, I’d choose Sanchez. He seems to have the tools, has leadership skills, and I like his potential to continue developing into a great NFL QB.

**DeezNutz** · 02-09-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Ok, I agree 100% here... taking a junior QB is a huge risk... if you are gonna take that risk.. go with a guy like Sanchez.

If I am wrong (hopefully) he could really blow things up...

Also, I am not even sure that Stafford has that MUCH better of an arm...

I don't know why you're so hung about about the "junior" status.

Stafford has started more collegiate games in the best defensive conference in the country than a ton of seniors.

Thus, from here on out we'll call him a "senior" based on his NFL development. Feel better? Same thing with Sanchez. Dude is really a "senior."

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain (pretend you're a devoted WPI subscriber).

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-09-2009, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomy3

Almost as bad as calling Joey Harrington an average NFL QB.

Who, in your "infinite wisdom" is an AVERAGE NFL QB?

Don't EVEN like this shit is rocket-science and can be explained by statistics alone.

Are you a Thigpen supporter?

02-08-2009, 05:27 PM
AustinChief Administrator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Austin Casino cash: $-754998	#3 overall pick... a 20 year history 08 Matt Ryan 07 Joe Thomas 06 Vince Young 05 Braylon Edwards 04 Larry Fitzgerald 03 Andre Johnson 02 Joey Harrington 01 Gerard Warren 00 Chris Samuels 99 Akili Smith 98 Andre Wadsworth 97 Shawn Springs 96 Simeon Rice 95 Steve McNair 94 Heath Shuler 93 Garrison Hearst 92 Sean Gilbert 91 Bruce Pickens 90 Cortez Kennedy 89 Barry Sanders Draw your own conclusions. As for myself, if this list is a good indicator, I would go DT, DE, OT or WR... unfortunately we don't have a need that pressing at OT and the DE, DT WR prospects are iffy that high... I am not in the anti-QB at all cost crowd.. I just really am not sold on THESE two QBs... esp. Stafford...
Posts: 20,021

02-08-2009, 11:28 PM	#62
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-722950	Let me break this down real fast... Would you personally feel more comfortable with a player who spent 4 years in a pro style offense at one of the best colleges in the nation, that can play from center, has good footwork, good mechanics, a very good arm, mobility, intangibles all that. He only started 1 year but don't overlook that he had 4 years of development with a team that has as competitive of practices as anyone.. Or would you rather have someone like Colt McCoy who has started a ton of games but it's in the spread formation... I'd tell you in my opinion Sanchez is more ready than McCoy, Bradford, any spread QB.
Posts: 115,380

02-09-2009, 12:24 AM	#73
Manila-Chief Supporter Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Memphis/Miss Casino cash: $10006883	First, I’m smart enough to know that scouts evaluate college players much better than I do and I know I may be wrong. As of right now if I were making the #3 pick, I’d choose Sanchez. He seems to have the tools, has leadership skills, and I like his potential to continue developing into a great NFL QB.
Posts: 2,152