Chiefs What's with the Thigpen fixation? - Page 46

Mecca · 02-10-2009, 04:53 PM

Now I fully admit it isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be on this forum but I've yet to figure out this fixation with him. It's really bad at some other unnamed forums..

I honestly have no way of comprehending what it's about. It's like everything people said about Croyle has now been lumped onto Thigpen. "Well um he's the guy we don't need another QB"

The worst part is the people who don't want a QB this year then say well if Thigpen doesn't work out we can just take Bradford or McCoy, it's like peoples brains fell out.

Just Passin' By · 02-11-2009, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

No, their stats AREN'T comparable, because Manning has done that over FOUR seasons, and has won a CHAMPIONSHIP, while Anderson has done that over 1 season.....
Sorry, but you have to be missing some crucial part of the critical thinking process if you think Eli Manning has been a disappointment, and Derek Anderson has been a success.

Eli Manning was a top 5 pick. His stats are on par with Derek Anderson. He's had more bad to mediocre seasons, consistently. That's supposed to be something impressive? Also, you keep avoiding that other season of Manning's, where he did throw more interceptions than touchdowns and he completed fewer than 50% of his passes.

If the Chiefs quarterback was putting up Manning numbers, you'd be calling for his head. Hell, Thigpen threw for 18 touchdowns and only 12 interceptions this season, had a 4.2% touchdown rate, a 3.1% interception rate, averaged 6.2 yards per attempt, had a rating of 74.7 and people here want to run him out of town on a rail.

Again, match up the numbers:

Thigpen threw 18/12 for a 1.5/1 td/int ratio compared to Manning's career average of 1.324/1

Thigpen had a 4.2% TD rate compared to Manning's 4.3%
Thigpen had a 3.1 INT rate compared to Manning's 3.2%

Thigpen had a 74.7 passer rating compared to Manning's 76.1

keg in kc · 02-11-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

If the Chiefs quarterback was putting up Manning numbers, you'd be calling for his head. Hell, Thigpen threw for 18 touchdowns and only 12 interceptions this season, had a 4.2% touchdown rate, a 3.1% interception rate, averaged 6.2 yards per attempt, had a rating of 74.7 and people here want to run him out of town on a rail.

I don't like him for two reasons, off the top of my head. His completion percentage and his height. I'd probably throw in his mechanics as a third.

I don't think he's going to be more than a backup at this level, over the long term. I thought that before this season, and I still think it. I just don't see a whole lot of upside there. I would like to keep him around , just in case he does turn out to be more, and I think he could be a servicable backup long-term, but I wouldn't want to pin the future of the franchise on him. Just too big a gamble for me.

Just Passin' By · 02-11-2009, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I don't like him for two reasons, off the top of my head. His completion percentage and his height. I'd probably throw in his mechanics as a third.

I don't think he's going to be more than a backup at this level, over the long term. I thought that before this season, and I still think it. I just don't see a whole lot of upside there. I would like to keep him around , just in case he does turn out to be more, and I think he could be a servicable backup long-term, but I wouldn't want to pin the future of the franchise on him. Just too big a gamble for me.

I wasn't impressed with him, either, and I do think that the Chiefs need to look elsewhere to find their quarterback. The question really comes down to how you feel about this year's quarterbacks. Both of the two most talked about choices have major question marks.

I can't put links in because I don't have enough posts, but there's a rotoworld article that talks about this. It was written by Evan Silva as a draft preview for this upcoming draft. The money quote, with regards to Stafford and Sanchez, is probably this one:

Quote:

Along similar lines, Football Outsiders statistician David Lewin discovered three years ago that college starts and completion rate -- a direct indication of accuracy -- are the two most telling predictors of NFL quarterback success. Lewin, who's also worked as a statistical consultant in the NBA, has had his QBs hypothesis plugged by countless media members, including NFL.com's Gil Brandt and ESPN's Todd McShay. Even Pete Carroll hinted at it when trying to convince Mark Sanchez to stay in school. Lewin's theory has become a widely accepted reference in QB evaluation.

L.A. Chieffan · 02-11-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I wasn't impressed with him, either, and I do think that the Chiefs need to look elsewhere to find their quarterback. The question really comes down to how you feel about this year's quarterbacks. Both of the two most talked about choices have major question marks.

I can't put links in because I don't have enough posts, but there's a rotoworld article that talks about this. It was written by Evan Silva as a draft preview for this upcoming draft. The money quote, with regards to Stafford and Sanchez, is probably this one:

so we need to look elsewhere for a qb, just not these two qbs because they are going in the 1st round and we dont want to draft a qb in the 1st round because drafting qbs in the 1st round isnt as good as drafting qbs in other rounds? is that right?

**Smed1065** · 02-11-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I don't like him for two reasons, off the top of my head. His completion percentage and his height. I'd probably throw in his mechanics as a third.

I don't think he's going to be more than a backup at this level, over the long term. I thought that before this season, and I still think it. I just don't see a whole lot of upside there. I would like to keep him around , just in case he does turn out to be more, and I think he could be a servicable backup long-term, but I wouldn't want to pin the future of the franchise on him. Just too big a gamble for me.

true

keg in kc · 02-11-2009, 01:51 AM

I'd be less hesitant with Stafford than with Sanchez. I just don't think Sanchez has enough experience. One year starting is not enough of a sample size for a top-5 pick, there's too much he's going to have to learn on the job at the professional level, and, while I don't remember the specifics enough to post in any detail, I think history demonstrates that quarterbacks that leave early without a certain number of starts under their belt generally fail. In any case, with Sanchez you're making a shot in the dark based on projection and potential instead of actual production, and I just don't think that's a wise move at the top of the first round.

I don't think you draft a quarterback later than the first round if you intend for him to be your starter. You may end up with one that exceeds expectations and starts, but I think if you're looking for a qbotf in the draft, you do it in the first round. That's where the franchise quarterbacks are. Later picks are for backups and players with flaws that you try to work out in time.

If drafting a quarterback is not an option, then you have to find a way to trade for one. There's the obvious talk of Cassel, but I'm not all that enthusiastic about him. Maybe there's another alternative. I don't think there's going to be a solution on the free agent market.

However, all that said, for the first time in my tenure as a chiefs fan (10 years now), I have enough faith in the front office that I'll gladly acquiesce to whatever decision they make in the end. If they see enough in Sanchez or in Stafford or in Cassel or even in Thigpen, then, well, I have more faith in that decision being a good one long term than I ever have.

BWillie · 02-11-2009, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Now I fully admit it isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be on this forum but I've yet to figure out this fixation with him. It's really bad at some other unnamed forums..

I honestly have no way of comprehending what it's about. It's like everything people said about Croyle has now been lumped onto Thigpen. "Well um he's the guy we don't need another QB"

The worst part is the people who don't want a QB this year then say well if Thigpen doesn't work out we can just take Bradford or McCoy, it's like peoples brains fell out.

He had almost 400 yards rushing in 11 games. If he plays the entire year I could see him having 550 easy. He is the white Michael Vick except he can throw. Well sort of. Just because his QB rating isn't sexy doesn't mean he's horrible. If it's not there he can make things happen with his legs. Not saying he's the answer for sure at QB, but even if we draft a QB first round I'd give the reigns to start the year unless he just can't run the new offense. If this team would of had Tom Brady they would of still not won more than 4 games.

Mecca · 02-11-2009, 02:14 AM

That Lewin thing is a GUESS, just like anything else he tried to come up with a guessrate formula it is not flawless or correct all the time.

And please stop with Derek Anderson he got himself benched.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-11-2009, 03:18 AM

Only morons believe that fantasy stats somehow correlate directly to the effectiveness of a quarterback.

orange · 02-11-2009, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PastorMikH

I don't think too many KC fans can live with that scenario. I read (and responded to) on the Planet in the last week where someone said they wrote Thigpen off in NY because he couldn't take the team down the field in the last minute for the win - in his second career start. John Horseface probably couldn't have done it in his second start.

Actually, he did it the very first time he set foot on an NFL field:

In a show-stopping performance that blazed across the Denver sky last Friday night, Bronco Quarterback John Elway established himself—in exactly four minutes, 22 seconds—as a phenom of extraordinary proportions. That's how long it took the NFL's most heralded rookie in eons, and at $l million a year its highest-paid player, to grab the Broncos—2-7 last year and trailing in this game 7-3—by the throat and march them, nay, stampede them, 75 yards into the Seattle end zone for the winning touchdown. The drive took 10 plays—Elway's first 10 as a pro—and during it the quarterback completed five of six passes, in the rain.

If he keeps this up, he'll be a legend by September and eligible for sainthood by October.

August 15, 1983
Douglas S. Looney
Sports Illustrated

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...1123/index.htm

It doesn't take that long to show something...

whatsmynameagain · 02-11-2009, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Only morons believe that fantasy stats somehow correlate directly to the effectiveness of a quarterback.

it can be telling
Posted via Mobile Device

Agent V · 02-11-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatsmynameagain

it can be telling
Posted via Mobile Device

I personally prefer game film over fantasy stats when evaluating a player, but that's just me.

PastorMikH · 02-11-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange

Actually, he did it the very first time he set foot on an NFL field:

In a show-stopping performance that blazed across the Denver sky last Friday night, Bronco Quarterback John Elway established himself—in exactly four minutes, 22 seconds—as a phenom of extraordinary proportions. That's how long it took the NFL's most heralded rookie in eons, and at $l million a year its highest-paid player, to grab the Broncos—2-7 last year and trailing in this game 7-3—by the throat and march them, nay, stampede them, 75 yards into the Seattle end zone for the winning touchdown. The drive took 10 plays—Elway's first 10 as a pro—and during it the quarterback completed five of six passes, in the rain.

If he keeps this up, he'll be a legend by September and eligible for sainthood by October.

August 15, 1983
Douglas S. Looney
Sports Illustrated

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.c...1123/index.htm

It doesn't take that long to show something...

I guess he did... hey, wait, that coulda been beginner's luck, it was his first game, could he have done it in his second was the question

And could he have done it with this team and Herm at the helm????

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-11-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Only morons believe that fantasy stats somehow correlate directly to the effectiveness of a quarterback.

QFT.

****!

It seems that the majority of the fan base would love the QB of the Chiefs to lead all of the Fantasy Football categories instead of actually winning on the football field.

Only "True Fans" would take Derek Anderson over Eli Manning or Drew Brees over Ben Rothlisberger.

What the ****??

Just Passin' By · 02-11-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

QFT.

****!

It seems that the majority of the fan base would love the QB of the Chiefs to lead all of the Fantasy Football categories instead of actually winning on the football field.

Only "True Fans" would take Derek Anderson over Eli Manning or Drew Brees over Ben Rothlisberger.

What the ****??

Who in this thread said they would take Anderson over Manning?

02-10-2009, 04:53 PM
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-752950	What's with the Thigpen fixation? Now I fully admit it isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be on this forum but I've yet to figure out this fixation with him. It's really bad at some other unnamed forums.. I honestly have no way of comprehending what it's about. It's like everything people said about Croyle has now been lumped onto Thigpen. "Well um he's the guy we don't need another QB" The worst part is the people who don't want a QB this year then say well if Thigpen doesn't work out we can just take Bradford or McCoy, it's like peoples brains fell out.
Posts: 115,387

02-11-2009, 01:51 AM	#681
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I'd be less hesitant with Stafford than with Sanchez. I just don't think Sanchez has enough experience. One year starting is not enough of a sample size for a top-5 pick, there's too much he's going to have to learn on the job at the professional level, and, while I don't remember the specifics enough to post in any detail, I think history demonstrates that quarterbacks that leave early without a certain number of starts under their belt generally fail. In any case, with Sanchez you're making a shot in the dark based on projection and potential instead of actual production, and I just don't think that's a wise move at the top of the first round. I don't think you draft a quarterback later than the first round if you intend for him to be your starter. You may end up with one that exceeds expectations and starts, but I think if you're looking for a qbotf in the draft, you do it in the first round. That's where the franchise quarterbacks are. Later picks are for backups and players with flaws that you try to work out in time. If drafting a quarterback is not an option, then you have to find a way to trade for one. There's the obvious talk of Cassel, but I'm not all that enthusiastic about him. Maybe there's another alternative. I don't think there's going to be a solution on the free agent market. However, all that said, for the first time in my tenure as a chiefs fan (10 years now), I have enough faith in the front office that I'll gladly acquiesce to whatever decision they make in the end. If they see enough in Sanchez or in Stafford or in Cassel or even in Thigpen, then, well, I have more faith in that decision being a good one long term than I ever have.
Posts: 58,682

02-11-2009, 02:14 AM	#683
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-752950	That Lewin thing is a GUESS, just like anything else he tried to come up with a guessrate formula it is not flawless or correct all the time. And please stop with Derek Anderson he got himself benched.
Posts: 115,387

02-11-2009, 03:18 AM	#684
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	Only morons believe that fantasy stats somehow correlate directly to the effectiveness of a quarterback. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083