Chiefs Mike Vrabel - Page 8

Amnorix · 02-27-2009, 09:38 PM

As I did when Pioli came over, I'll post a separate thread because I think it's fair to say that I might have just a little more knowledge about the guy than most on here.

What you guys have traded for is a very smart, team-driven, reliable and consistent performer able to play both inside and outside linebacker in the 3-4, with championship credentials and very good leadership skills.

In my opinion, the reasons that the Chiefs have made this trade are as follows:

1. Veteran leadership. The Chiefs are VERY young. Rather than yet another young draft pick player, the Chiefs have decided that even though he is on the downside of his career and will only play for another year or two, it is important to bring in someone who can show the younger players HOW to practice, HOW to review film, HOW to prepare for games and be coachable, and HOW to play 3-4 linebacker.

2. Defensive flexibility. Vrabel can play both inside and outside in the 3-4 with relatively equal facility. A solid performer, he can set the edge, rush the passer and play hardnosed in the middle.

3. Position flexibility. In addition to his inside/outside talents in the 3-4, he also plays TE in goal line situations, showing the rest of the team that he is able and willing to do WHATEVER the coaches ask to help the team win.

He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans.

Many here denigrate what he will bring ON the field, and wonder why the Chiefs are giving up anything for him. What you need to understand is that as much as they want what he brings on the field, what they are really bringing him here for is what he brings OFF the field. That is what makes him valuable to a ridiculously young, inexperienced Chiefs team.

And when he talks, those young guys will listen. His three rings ensure that. He will also help the coaches enforce their ways inside the locker room, and get the Chiefs players moving and operating in the right direction.

Though Pats fans knew his time was drawing near, we basically feel like there's been a death in teh family. Vrabel was universally loved and respected by Patriots fans, and we're very sad to see him go.

Amnorix · 02-27-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

For Vrabel to be the team leader, a couple vets will have to go, maybe more. Waters, Gonzalez at least.

NFL teams have multiple leaders, and Waters and TG are on the other side of the ball.

Amnorix · 02-27-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

But when you've gone 6-26 over the last two years and you can count the talented players you have on both hands, you need all the draft picks you can get.

If I've said it once, I've said it a million times:

I understand and value what he'll bring to the locker room NOW.

I'd have no problem with this had we signed him as a FA.

I just don't agree with the idea of a rebuilding team giving up picks for an aging, part-time player in his last year.

Seriously, have you read a single book on building a team? Go get Won for All or Management Secrets of teh New England Patriots or Patriots Reign or something to get some appreciation into the BB/SP system.

You're overly focused on talent. Do you think you mgiht draft ONE OR TWO defensive rookies THIS YEAR for that suck-ass defense of yours? Do you think having someone like Vrabel show him how to conduct himself on a path to NFL success might be slightly useful?

Do you think your ENTIRE roster will be flushed?

Fine -- do it your way. The Patriots, Colts and Steelers will continue to crush your squad as you focus exclusively on talent and ignore the other variables that are critical towards building a winning NFL football team

Mecca · 02-27-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

NFL teams have multiple leaders, and Waters and TG are on the other side of the ball.

I don't think Waters is going to be thought of as a team leader after what's been going on here...our team is full of soft players..

Personally when I saw the trade when I woke up today the first thing out of my mouth was "Scott Pioli thinks our team has no player leadership"

**OnTheWarpath15** · 02-28-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

"It's still the guy with the most war stories who has the most impact and influence and has the power to set the tone."

"I think one of the lessons Belichick learned when he was coaching in Celveland was that the big-name players don't always make the best fit. . . . The players who were signed before the start of the 2001 season were all players brought here for specific reasons -- some for specialized skills, others for leadership, still otehrs fro a winning kind of attitude, but all because we were putting together a team, and tehse were some of the elements that were missing."

"Some examples: We acquired Bryan Cox, a veteran linebacker with talent but also a guy who brings an X-factor we needed for attitude. . . . He also brought in Anthony Pleasant, a defensive end he had drafted originally in Cleveland and a player he knew very well, one who would give us some veteran leadership on the defnsive line."

As coaches, we definitely felt we had substantially upgraded the team from where it had been in 2000. We didn't come in saying we had one of the most talented teams int he league, but Coach Belichick made sure all of us knew that we would have a team that was extremely strong mentally."

"After the workouts the players would talk to the coaches about responsibilities and also become use to the verbiage that we would be using. It was all preparation for the season and these guys wanted to do it. All it takes is a couple fo leaders to show the way. If one player told the others, 'Hey, I had a great meeting with Pepper', the next thing I knew there were three or four guys in my office."

Won for All by Pepper Johnson with Bill Gutman.

Pepper is currently the Pats, err, TE coach I think. He was DL coach for a stretch, and was with Belichick as a player with the Giants and Browns.

Amno, that's great and all, but you still had some talent prior to that, regardless of the 5-11 record.

You had a franchise QB, 2 decent WRs, Milloy, Bruschi, Law, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Tebucky Jones, etc.

We have Dwayne Bowe, Branden Albert, Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers. That's our current core.

This team needs talent for the leaders to lead.

**doomy3** · 02-28-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't think Waters is going to be thought of as a team leader after what's been going on here...our team is full of soft players..

Personally when I saw the trade when I woke up today the first thing out of my mouth was "Scott Pioli thinks our team has no player leadership"

You woke up sometime after 1:30 today? Damn.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

Veteran leadership is nice, and all, but you have to have some talent in place before it can be led.

If it's a 7th rounder, whatever, but the overall shift in scheme and the lost opportunity to try to get a player capable of being around for more than two years is pretty disheartening if it's much more than that.

You overrate 5th and 6th round picks as well.

And Vrabes can help you with more than just one player. He can help your entire squad start walking down the path of winning.

You guys are incredible. The value you put on late round picks is truly mind-boggling. You're already fielding the kiddie-squad. You think another 22 year old drafted in the late rounds is "THE Answer"? Yeesh.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-28-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

You overrate 5th and 6th round picks as well.

Says the guy who's team scored a first ballot HOFer with a 6th round pick.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't think Waters is going to be thought of as a team leader after what's been going on here...our team is full of soft players..

Personally when I saw the trade when I woke up today the first thing out of my mouth was "Scott Pioli thinks our team has no player leadership"

I would tend to agree, though I don't know about Waters' situation all that well.

Vrabel brings intelligence, toughness and leadership. I think a roster full of young pups could use all three, to be honest.

But if you want some long-shot 22 year old that isn't likely to be on an NFL roster in 3 years and won't add anything short or long-term, that's up to you guys I guess.

Mecca · 02-28-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Amno, that's great and all, but you still had some talent prior to that, regardless of the 5-11 record.

You had a franchise QB, 2 decent WRs, Milloy, Bruschi, Law, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Tebucky Jones, etc.

We have Dwayne Bowe, Branden Albert, Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers. That's our current core.

This team needs talent for the leaders to lead.

When we become a 3-4 team I'm not sure Glenn Dorsey will even be a part of that core.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Says the guy who's team scored a first ballot HOFer with a 6th round pick.

Yeah, but it was a stroke of lightning. Pats trade those picks coming and going like they're water.

**The Bad Guy** · 02-28-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't think Waters is going to be thought of as a team leader after what's been going on here...our team is full of soft players..

Personally when I saw the trade when I woke up today the first thing out of my mouth was "Scott Pioli thinks our team has no player leadership"

He would be right.

Seriously, how the **** could Waters and Gonzalez try to back Herm?

The only reason is because Herm gave them a country club atmosphere.

Mecca · 02-28-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I would tend to agree, though I don't know about Waters' situation all that well.

Vrabel brings intelligence, toughness and leadership. I think a roster full of young pups could use all three, to be honest.

But if you want some long-shot 22 year old that isn't likely to be on an NFL roster in 3 years and won't add anything short or long-term, that's up to you guys I guess.

If it's a 6th round pick I'm not saying anything bad about it, but if we give up our 3 for Cassell I'm going to have a shit fit.

Mecca · 02-28-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

He would be right.

Seriously, how the **** could Waters and Gonzalez try to back Herm?

The only reason is because Herm gave them a country club atmosphere.

Brian Waters is like a big mouthed self important leader and I've never considered Gonzalez a team leader, he's been a great player but I don't think he's "a leader" by any means.

Tony Gonzalez idea of leading is thinking about what's best for Tony Gonzalez.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 02-28-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Seriously, have you read a single book on building a team? Go get Won for All or Management Secrets of teh New England Patriots or Patriots Reign or something to get some appreciation into the BB/SP system.

You're overly focused on talent. Do you think you mgiht draft ONE OR TWO defensive rookies THIS YEAR for that suck-ass defense of yours? Do you think having someone like Vrabel show him how to conduct himself on a path to NFL success might be slightly useful?

Do you think your ENTIRE roster will be flushed?

Fine -- do it your way. The Patriots, Colts and Steelers will continue to crush your squad as you focus exclusively on talent and ignore the other variables that are critical towards building a winning NFL football team

I've read Patriot Reign twice.

What the Patriots did in 2001 can't be used as a comparison. They already HAD TALENT. They weren't starting from scratch.

I'm not suggesting we ignore these other variables, but without some talent, it means nothing.

Amnorix · 02-28-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Amno, that's great and all, but you still had some talent prior to that, regardless of the 5-11 record.

You had a franchise QB, 2 decent WRs, Milloy, Bruschi, Law, McGinest, Ted Johnson, Tebucky Jones, etc.

We have Dwayne Bowe, Branden Albert, Glenn Dorsey and Brandon Flowers. That's our current core.

This team needs talent for the leaders to lead.

The chances of you finding that talent in the later rounds are REMOTE.

And you underrate what toughness and intelligence can get you. The Dolphins are NOT that talented. They just aren't. But they improved 10 games in part because of intangibles. One of those intangibles was a weak-ass schedule, but the Patriots and Jets had almost the same weak schedule and couldn't win more games than the 'phins. Part of that was ancillary stuff like injuries, etc., but don't ignore intangibles in the NFL.

This isn't the NBA where the team with the best 2-3 players wins every playoff series.

02-27-2009, 09:38 PM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	Mike Vrabel As I did when Pioli came over, I'll post a separate thread because I think it's fair to say that I might have just a little more knowledge about the guy than most on here. What you guys have traded for is a very smart, team-driven, reliable and consistent performer able to play both inside and outside linebacker in the 3-4, with championship credentials and very good leadership skills. In my opinion, the reasons that the Chiefs have made this trade are as follows: 1. Veteran leadership. The Chiefs are VERY young. Rather than yet another young draft pick player, the Chiefs have decided that even though he is on the downside of his career and will only play for another year or two, it is important to bring in someone who can show the younger players HOW to practice, HOW to review film, HOW to prepare for games and be coachable, and HOW to play 3-4 linebacker. 2. Defensive flexibility. Vrabel can play both inside and outside in the 3-4 with relatively equal facility. A solid performer, he can set the edge, rush the passer and play hardnosed in the middle. 3. Position flexibility. In addition to his inside/outside talents in the 3-4, he also plays TE in goal line situations, showing the rest of the team that he is able and willing to do WHATEVER the coaches ask to help the team win. He is, of course, on the downside of his career. Last year there was a very noticeable dropoff in his ability to make impact plays. Whereas in years gone by he stood out on the field for making key plays, last year he wasn't very noticeable. That's good in that you didn't often look at him as having screwed something up, but it's bad in that he wasn't making the strip-sacks that had earned him the love of Patriots fans. Many here denigrate what he will bring ON the field, and wonder why the Chiefs are giving up anything for him. What you need to understand is that as much as they want what he brings on the field, what they are really bringing him here for is what he brings OFF the field. That is what makes him valuable to a ridiculously young, inexperienced Chiefs team. And when he talks, those young guys will listen. His three rings ensure that. He will also help the coaches enforce their ways inside the locker room, and get the Chiefs players moving and operating in the right direction. Though Pats fans knew his time was drawing near, we basically feel like there's been a death in teh family. Vrabel was universally loved and respected by Patriots fans, and we're very sad to see him go.
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