Chiefs Matt Cassel: Good or Bad? - Page 17

**Mr. Flopnuts** · 02-28-2009, 01:32 PM

We may as well have an easy point of reference for people to be able to come back and eat their crow when this all pans out. Everyone always says I knew it all along. Step up and put it down.

I don't think a 2nd round pick is terrible, but I don't think Matt Cassel will pan out in KC. I'll put it down right here, right now. And now I'll start praying I'm wrong.

Forget the trade. The only thing I want you to commit too is whether or not Cassel is a good or bad choice for QBOTF.

chiefs1111 · 02-28-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Chiefs' last 15 2nd round picks:

Brandon Flowers
Turk McBride
Bernard Pollard
Junior Siavii
Kris Wilson
Kawika Mitchell
Eddie Freeman
William Bartee
Mike Cloud
Kevin Lockett
Reggie Tongue
Donnell Bennett
Darrin Mickell
Matt Blundin
Joe Valerio

You be the judge...

wow,that's an ugly list

Sweet Daddy Hate · 02-28-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Admittedly, that thought occurred to me as well. If we make the assumption that all of the GMs secretly love these guys and Pioli is assuming that neither will drop to 3, then he's hedging his 2,200 point first-round pick with a 480 point second-round pick. It's a classic hedging strategy. If he gets a shining American hero in the first, he'll gladly sacrifice his second. If not, he automatically got a starting QB with his second.

If we do THAT, you will NEVER hear me bitch about Pioli or Haley again in my lifetime.

I swear it. Right now.

Coach · 02-28-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefs1111

wow,that's an ugly list

That's a no shit. Outside of Brandon Flowers and maybe Reggie Tounge, there isn't shit on that list.

Honestly, I would make this trade anyday, anytime.

**mlyonsd** · 02-28-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I realize that, I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of people here making the mistaken assumption that this thread is about the trade, and that it is possible to be okay with the trade without being in love with the player. And that you don't have to have a man-crush on Sanchez or Stafford or anybody else to vote "no".

Maybe the only answer to make everyone happy is for Pioli to find someone to trade their 2nd for Thigpen.

Ok, I snickered typing that.

keg in kc · 02-28-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

Maybe the only answer to make everyone happy is for Pioli to find someone to trade their 2nd for Thigpen.

Hell, trade him for a 5th and I'll be giddy as a schoolgirl.

suds79 · 02-28-2009, 05:05 PM

I'm a Stafford fan, but 2 get our starting QB and a starting LB all 4 our 2nd round pick is highway robbery! Way 2 go Scott!

Sweet Daddy Hate · 02-28-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Hell, trade him for a 5th and I'll be giddy as a schoolgirl.

This.

**Rain Man** · 02-28-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

If we do THAT, you will NEVER hear me bitch about Pioli or Haley again in my lifetime.

I swear it. Right now.

Y'know, I'd never really thought about it that way, but it makes a lot of sense, really. A new GM comes in with a scientific thought process, looks around, and says, "I have to have a quarterback. No matter what else happens, I have to end up with a quarterback in my first two picks." So you invest the lower-value pick now and then if you can cash in later, you accept the loss for the risk mitigation it provided before the draft.

It's one of those moves that may seem contrary to the notion of a lot of people that football is a cigar-chomping, film-watching, stopwatch-timing roll of the dice on individual players. It's a probability-based method that manages risk on a scientific basis,

Even the cigar chompers would admit that it also lets you step back and look for the best player available instead of making an obligatory investment on need.

tboss27 · 02-28-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Chiefs' last 15 2nd round picks:

Brandon Flowers
Turk McBride
Bernard Pollard
Junior Siavii
Kris Wilson
Kawika Mitchell
Eddie Freeman
William Bartee
Mike Cloud
Kevin Lockett
Reggie Tongue
Donnell Bennett
Darrin Mickell
Matt Blundin
Joe Valerio

You be the judge...

Didn't we give away a second for Herm as well? That was a real good investment of a 2nd rounder if we did, resulting in an average of 5 wins a season during his time. I just can't understand why some complain about this trade. We are gonna get a stud at #3, or trade down and add a stud/depth, and we get a QB who has the potential to be very good in this league. I'll take the risk of him not working out any day of the week over drafting the crap on that list.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 02-28-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Y'know, I'd never really thought about it that way, but it makes a lot of sense, really. A new GM comes in with a scientific thought process, looks around, and says, "I have to have a quarterback. No matter what else happens, I have to end up with a quarterback in my first two picks." So you invest the lower-value pick now and then if you can cash in later, you accept the loss for the risk mitigation it provided before the draft.

It's one of those moves that may seem contrary to the notion of a lot of people that football is a cigar-chomping, film-watching, stopwatch-timing roll of the dice on individual players. It's a probability-based method that manages risk on a scientific basis,

Even the cigar chompers would admit that it also lets you step back and look for the best player available instead of making an obligatory investment on need.

It's a long-shot for sure, but it IS a shot.

R&GHomer · 02-28-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts

We may as well have an easy point of reference for people to be able to come back and eat their crow when this all pans out. Everyone always says I knew it all along. Step up and put it down.

I don't think a 2nd round pick is terrible, but I don't think Matt Cassel will pan out in KC. I'll put it down right here, right now. And now I'll start praying I'm wrong.

Forget the trade. The only thing I want you to commit too is whether or not Cassel is a good or bad choice for QBOTF.

Pioli has spent years with this guy, his play last year showed he could improve from game to game and he's an intelligent Qb with much more experience in the NFL and what it takes to be a winner. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE The trade.

Chief Faithful · 02-28-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Chiefs' last 15 2nd round picks:

Brandon Flowers
Turk McBride
Bernard Pollard
Junior Siavii
Kris Wilson
Kawika Mitchell
Eddie Freeman
William Bartee
Mike Cloud
Kevin Lockett
Reggie Tongue
Donnell Bennett
Darrin Mickell
Matt Blundin
Joe Valerio

You be the judge...

A better comparison would be the 2nd round picks of the Patriots since Pioli arrived. You might find our 2nd is worth more now than under Carl.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-28-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

That's a no shit. Outside of Brandon Flowers and maybe Reggie Tounge, there isn't shit on that list.

Honestly, I would make this trade anyday, anytime.

I don't understand this logic. These picks were made by CP, who everyone hates, yet we assume that Pioli, whose judgment we can't question, would make similar shitty picks?

I'm not saying that this is a bad trade, it's not. But this isn't some slam-dunk rape job, either. Drew Brees, Kris Jenkins, Chad Johnson, Matt Forte, DeMeco Ryans, Rashean Mathis, Karlos Dansby, Michael Roos, and Thomas Howard are all high second round picks from just the last decade. There is a lot of value with that pick.

**Rain Man** · 02-28-2009, 05:12 PM

Oh, hey. Here's another thought for the conspiracy theorists.

Had Scott fielded any interest by other teams prior to joining the Chiefs? If he knew that other teams weren't showing a lot of interest, it could've helped in his negotiations. Likewise, if other teams were showing interest, it still would've helped him.

I wonder how any conflicts of interest would've come into play here. Obviously, he didn't know he was coming to the Chiefs, so there couldn't have been anything egregious, but it still seems like he might've been in a meeting with Belichick where they talked about the minimum trade they'd take for Cassel.

R&GHomer · 02-28-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I admit that this is my concern as well. I wanted a quarterback who was the next James Bond, someone who dominated in college and was part appaloosa and who helped India launch satellites with his arm. If Cassel was that, he would've had half a dozen more starting years under his belt. It worries me. But like I said, I'll trust Pioli's judgment on this given the fact that he hands out used Lombardi trophies as party favors.

"shrug" Tom Brady was his competition, obviously they saw something in the kid to keep him around when all the other QB's they drafted fell to the waist side. Cassel got his chance and proved himself "imho" what the coaches and scouts always knew. The kid can play

View Poll Results: Is Matt Cassel a good choice or a bad choice for the Chiefs QBOTF?
Good	308	86.27%
Bad	49	13.73%
Voters: 357. You may not vote on this poll

02-28-2009, 01:32 PM
Mr. Flopnuts FINALLY! The wait is over. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Future Is Now!!! Casino cash: $19947565	Matt Cassel: Good or Bad? We may as well have an easy point of reference for people to be able to come back and eat their crow when this all pans out. Everyone always says I knew it all along. Step up and put it down. I don't think a 2nd round pick is terrible, but I don't think Matt Cassel will pan out in KC. I'll put it down right here, right now. And now I'll start praying I'm wrong. Forget the trade. The only thing I want you to commit too is whether or not Cassel is a good or bad choice for QBOTF.
Posts: 56,649

02-28-2009, 05:05 PM	#246
suds79 MVP Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $10005036	I'm a Stafford fan, but 2 get our starting QB and a starting LB all 4 our 2nd round pick is highway robbery! Way 2 go Scott!
Posts: 5,747

02-28-2009, 05:12 PM	#254
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-792449 VARSITY	Oh, hey. Here's another thought for the conspiracy theorists. Had Scott fielded any interest by other teams prior to joining the Chiefs? If he knew that other teams weren't showing a lot of interest, it could've helped in his negotiations. Likewise, if other teams were showing interest, it still would've helped him. I wonder how any conflicts of interest would've come into play here. Obviously, he didn't know he was coming to the Chiefs, so there couldn't have been anything egregious, but it still seems like he might've been in a meeting with Belichick where they talked about the minimum trade they'd take for Cassel. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,617