Chiefs sign Mike Brown

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Not to single you out but I don't buy into this supposed "role".

Did you read Peter King's MMQB this week? There's a piece with Warren Sapp where Sapp unequivocally states that younger players do not listen to veterans. They blow them off, entirely. He saw it with the Bucs and the Raiders. He said Derrick Brooks has experienced the same thing.

Trent Green was pissed about the drafting of Brodie Croyle in 2006.

This whole "mentoring" thing is a figment of the imagination of the fans.

It just doesn't exist.

It's about setting examples. How to prepare, how to win. etc. These are grown men. Nobody expects them to be big brothering them. Especially when they are ultimately going to replace them.

[JohnnyV13]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

It's about setting examples. How to prepare, how to win. etc. These are grown men. Nobody expects them to be big brothering them. Especially when they are ultimately going to replace them.

This. Careers are short in the NFL, so this "taking under the wing" stuff is likely overblown.

As Trent Green put it, "that's what coaches are for".

Now, certainly having your competition busting their ass with preparation will force the younger guys to follow suit.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

It's about setting examples. How to prepare, how to win. etc. These are grown men. Nobody expects them to be big brothering them. Especially when they are ultimately going to replace them.

Exactly.

Though I think sometimes players do take a liking to veterans and vice versa.
Ultimately... I'll take veterans who can lead by example. That can often be more influential than the "under the wing" approach.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by beach tribe

It's about setting examples. How to prepare, how to win. etc. These are grown men. Nobody expects them to be big brothering them. Especially when they are ultimately going to replace them.

Yeah, that Mike Vrabel's really set the tone for the youthful players.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, that Mike Vrabel's really set the tone for the youthful players.

How do you know that? Because he didn't show up to optional workouts and because he said he was unhappy to be traded?

But did you hear from players that said he was inapproachable? Have there been any reports that he hasn't been working hard since going to camp? Have you heard any single player say that they are upset at him for not showing up?

You're speculating. Hines Ward held out several years ago from training camp. So did Tony Gonzalez. And these are two of the hardest working players in the game (and in the case of Tony G, we've seen specific cases of his mentourship). Players understand the difference between business and playing. I have yet to see any specific evidence to suggest that his skipping OTAs had any negative effect on the youth. In fact, it's probably a ridiculous suggestion to say so. We haven't seen any evidence of a positive influence either, but I guarantee that you will very soon.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, that Mike Vrabel's really set the tone for the youthful players.

Drafted players don't yet understand the politics or business of the NFL.
I'm sure no rookie working his way onto this roster will bat an eyelash at Vrabel exercising his right not to show up for voluntary OTA's.

[rad]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, that Mike Vrabel's really set the tone for the youthful players.

Dude, it's June. Give it a rest. Are you really gonna hang your argument on statements from Sapp recounting his days with the Raiders? The Raiders. Losers. You can't say no veteran will mentor a rookie. Winning teams do, losing teams don't.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Originally Posted by rad

Dude, it's June. Give it a rest. Are you really gonna hang your argument on statements from Sapp recounting his days with the Raiders? The Raiders. Losers. You can't say no veteran will mentor a rookie. Winning teams do, losing teams don't.

Thread over...

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by rad

Dude, it's June. Give it a rest. Are you really gonna hang your argument on statements from Sapp recounting his days with the Raiders? The Raiders. Losers. You can't say no veteran will mentor a rookie. Winning teams do, losing teams don't.

The "argument's" already been made. There are plenty (if not hundreds) of NFL players that flat out do not want anything to do with "mentoring".

And why the hell would they? So that after they mentor a younger player, they're out of a job?

That doesn't make much sense.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The "argument's" already been made. There are plenty (if not hundreds) of NFL players that flat out do not want anything to do with "mentoring".

And why the hell would they? So that after they mentor a younger player, they're out of a job?

That doesn't make much sense.

The argument hasn't been made. You're using one person's opinion (Sapp, a really awkward example in the first place) and generalizing across to "plenty" and potentially "hundreds" of players?

Why would they mentor other players? Oh, I don't know. Maybe because they want to win? Maybe because they know that coaches and front offices would much rather keep a leader around than a loner? Do you really think that an above average veteran who isn't on Brett Favre status can get away with shunning young players without the coach or front office noticing? Most players would get "fired" for not working hard and putting themselves above the team.

Yes, there are "plenty" of young players who shun advice and "plenty" of veterans who refuse to give it. But there are also plenty who follow by example (even if unadmittedly) and there are also plenty who lead (even if unintentionally).

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The argument hasn't been made. You're using one person's opinion (Sapp, a really awkward example in the first place) and generalizing across to "plenty" and potentially "hundreds" of players?

Why would they mentor other players? Oh, I don't know. Maybe because they want to win? Maybe because they know that coaches and front offices would much rather keep a leader around than a loner? Do you really think that an above average veteran who isn't on Brett Favre status can get away with shunning young players without the coach or front office noticing? Most players would get "fired" for not working hard and putting themselves above the team.

Yes, there are "plenty" of young players who shun advice and "plenty" of veterans who refuse to give it. But there are also plenty who follow by example (even if unadmittedly) and there are also plenty who lead (even if unintentionally).

Excellent post.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Micjones

Excellent post.

You know, I never took you for a lemming.

Guess I was wrong.