Chiefs Allen is going to outsack the Chiefs - Page 7

OctoberFart · 12-19-2008, 10:47 PM

Trade winner=Minnesota. Nice job KC your losing the sack battle

KC Chiefs TEAM TOTAL 9 sacks VS J. ALLEN 14.5 sacks

Minnesota got a hell of a deal. Now go ahead and tell me how KC won that trade.

aturnis · 08-17-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KcChiefsKing

Little to subtle there Dane, you're being sarcastic right?

I can't tell, but I do think LT is a little overrated.

QB
DE
LT

Great D starts with good run D, followed by a good pass rush. On most teams, the bulk of the pass rush production comes mostly from one DE. Jared Allen is a crazy good pass rusher who could also play the run. He truly is a guy who accomplishes what he puts his mind to.

Coach · 08-17-2009, 08:31 PM

At the same time, JA is one DUI away for a year long suspension, IIRC. If not, at least 8 games minimum, since he already did what, the 4 game, which was reduced to two? Something like that?

Either way, Pass rushers come and go. It's much easier to find a pass-rusher than you would find a future potentional franchise LT.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-17-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KcChiefsKing

Little to subtle there Dane, you're being sarcastic right?

Absolutely not.

James Harrison. Michael Strahan. Dwight Freeney. Joey Porter. What do they all have in common? Oh yeah, franchise pass rushers. And all Super Bowl winners.

Go back to the 90's with Charles Haley, who rushed the passer for the 49ers and Cowboys.

If you're going to win a Super Bowl in today's NFL, you need a franchise pass rusher, period.

A franchise left tackle is optional.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-17-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Either way, Pass rushers come and go. It's much easier to find a pass-rusher than you would find a future potentional franchise LT.

Really? Are you kidding me?

Take a look at the last 10 Super Bowl winners. How many of those teams even had a Pro Bowl tackle, let alone a "franchise" guy?

And how many of those teams had a great pass rusher?

sedated · 08-17-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Pass rushers come and go. It's much easier to find a pass-rusher than you would find a future potentional franchise LT.

wtf?

because we've had soooooo many great pass-rushers in recent years?

how many potential franchise LT's were drafted in the last 3 years, and how many franchise DE's?

DJ's left nut · 08-17-2009, 08:37 PM

In a playmaker's league, DE has become the 2nd most important position on the field.

The Chiefs D went from being roughly average to being a laughinstock, one of the 2 worst in the league, despite upgrading or staying the same at every position that wasn't Jared Allen.

Did nobody see last season? And yet they still want to undervalue a franchise DE?

We were worse off for this deal. Did we lose it? Well not really b/c our ****wit GM forced us to do it and we did as well as you have any right to hope for. However, all that did was mitigate the damage. Anyone arguing otherwise really does just look like a homer.

P.S. It's also pretty critical to remember that most folks had the Chiefs taking Albert at the 5 if they didn't get that deal done. So if you consider the trade Allen for Dorsey, it looks WAY shitter and probably more accurate than Allen for Albert.

Don't try to polish this turd, fellas. You'll just get your hands dirty.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-17-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

Really?? DT got to AFC championship once and that was because of a franchise QB...

The discussion is about franchise left tackles versus franchise pass rushers.

The QB position doesn't apply in this scenario.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-17-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

In a playmaker's league, DE has become the 2nd most important position on the field.

The Chiefs D went from being roughly average to being a laughinstock, one of the 2 worst in the league, despite upgrading or staying the same at every position that wasn't Jared Allen.

Did nobody see last season? And yet they still want to undervalue a franchise DE?

We were worse off for this deal. Did we lose it? Well not really b/c our ****wit GM forced us to do it and we did as well as you have any right to hope for. However, all that did was mitigate the damage. Anyone arguing otherwise really does just look like a homer.

P.S. It's also pretty critical to remember that most folks had the Chiefs taking Albert at the 5 if they didn't get that deal done. So if you consider the trade Allen for Dorsey, it looks WAY shitter and probably more accurate than Allen for Albert.

Don't try to polish this turd, fellas. You'll just get your hands dirty.

Considering the fact that the Chiefs could have started Herb Taylor last year (who subbed for Albert with absolutely no apparent drop off), the Chiefs would have been far better off keeping Allen and starting Herb. Hell, Richardson played well at left tackle Saturday night.

Good, young left tackles just aren't as scarce as in recent years.

RedThat · 08-17-2009, 08:41 PM

So far I have to admit, Minnesota has got the best end out of the deal.

The way I see it,

Charles=slipping on depth chart, no good

Morgan=slipping on depth chart, also no good

Our hope so far is Albert. Played well his first season. Can he be a probowler? thats the key, if he can do that, this trade will workout for both sides. If not, then Minny wins this deal. I like Albert and I think he is gonna need 3 years to develop. it takes time for LTs to come in and develop into really good players. So I think only time will tell. But I think Albert has a way to go before we can label him as a future probowl LT.

*Can we blame Carl for this move? Absolutely not. Unfair to Carl. Allen wanted to leave, what else could Carl do? This is the thing that really bothers me about professional sports, it seems as if alot of times players have more authority and control over managers in organizations. Shouldn't be that way. It should be the opposite. I wish they treated it like the real world where youre at your job and the managers of the company have the authority to decide what they want to do with you. If you don't like your position within the company, or whatever it is? Too bad..We own you, and if you don't like it theres the door!

It sucks. We witness it all the time. Gonzo was an example. We had two really good pieces in place, and got rid of them because they wanted out. So now were forced to build over again! Oh well.

aturnis · 08-17-2009, 08:45 PM

Personally, I think the most important pieces for the Chiefs to add in next years draft will be a STUD pass rushing OLB and a stud NT.

Next, a legit #2 WR.

Followed by Olineman and LB's for everyone!

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-17-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Personally, I think the most important pieces for the Chiefs to add in next years draft will be a STUD pass rushing OLB and a stud NT.

Next, a legit #2 WR.

Followed by Olineman and LB's for everyone!

They're going to need to add those guys anyway and in any order possible. There are just far too many holes on this team for them to compete for a playoff spot and won't until they have them filled.

Coach · 08-17-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Really? Are you kidding me?

Take a look at the last 10 Super Bowl winners. How many of those teams even had a Pro Bowl tackle, let alone a "franchise" guy?

And how many of those teams had a great pass rusher?

Super Bowl XXXIV - Rams - Orlando Pace - Won
Super Bowl XXXV - Ravens - Jonathan Ogden - Won
Super Bowl XXXVI - Patriots - Matt Light - Won. Note: Rams - Orlando Pace also played.
Super Bowl XXXVII - Raiders/Bucs - Neither LT's considered "Franchise" IMHO.
Super Bowl XXXVIII - Patriots - Matt Light - Won.
Super Bowl XXXIX - Patriots - Matt Light - Won.
Super Bowl XL - Seahawks - Walter Jones - Lost.
Super Bowl XLI - Colts/Bears - Neither LT's considered "Franchise" IMHO.
Super Bowl XLII - Patriots - Matt Light - Lost.
Super Bowl XLIII - Steelers/Cards - Max Starks.

Now some guys you may disagree that they are a "Franchise" LT, but the fact that the Patriots have kept Matt Light all that time, tells me that they value the guy.

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-17-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

Super Bowl XXXIV - Rams - Orlando Pace - Won
Super Bowl XXXV - Ravens - Jonathan Ogden - Won
Super Bowl XXXVI - Patriots - Matt Light - Won. Note: Rams - Orlando Pace also played.
Super Bowl XXXVII - Raiders/Bucs - Neither LT's considered "Franchise" IMHO.
Super Bowl XXXVIII - Patriots - Matt Light - Won.
Super Bowl XXXIX - Patriots - Matt Light - Won.
Super Bowl XL - Seahawks - Walter Jones - Lost.
Super Bowl XLI - Colts/Bears - Neither LT's considered "Franchise" IMHO.
Super Bowl XLII - Patriots - Matt Light - Lost.
Super Bowl XLIII - Steelers/Cards - Max Starks.

Now some guys you may disagree that they are a "Franchise" LT, but the fact that the Patriots have kept Matt Light all that time, tells me that they value the guy.

Oh, puhleese.

The Ravens won the Super Bowl because of their defense. JFC. Tampa Bay, same thing. The Giants? Defense. The Colts actually? Defense.

Max Starks?

Max Starks is a ****ing bozo. And Matt Light is NOT a "Franchise" left tackle. The guy is solid but he was a freakin' 5th rounder.

The Patriots didn't build their team or offensive line around Matt Light.

Valiant · 08-17-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The discussion is about franchise left tackles versus franchise pass rushers.

The QB position doesn't apply in this scenario.

You said franchise pass rushers win super bowls.. DT proves they do not.. JA and the studded defense of the Vikings fared no better..

Actually it takes a whole lot more then DE, OL.. Your guys bickering points are pointless..

**DaneMcCloud** · 08-17-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valiant

You said franchise pass rushers win super bowls.. DT proves they do not.. JA and the studded defense of the Vikings fared no better..

Actually it takes a whole lot more then DE, OL.. Your guys bickering points are pointless..

You're a ****ing moron.

Name a me a team that won the ****ing Super Bowl that didn't have an outstanding pass rusher. A guy (or guys) that offenses had to game plan for each and every week.

You're not going to win SHIT in the NFL these days without an outstanding pass rusher.

Period.

12-19-2008, 10:47 PM
OctoberFart Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Casino cash: $10006091	Allen is going to outsack the Chiefs Trade winner=Minnesota. Nice job KC your losing the sack battle KC Chiefs TEAM TOTAL 9 sacks VS J. ALLEN 14.5 sacks Minnesota got a hell of a deal. Now go ahead and tell me how KC won that trade.
Posts: 2,583

08-17-2009, 08:31 PM	#92
Coach Champs! Join Date: Mar 2004 Casino cash: $3698476	At the same time, JA is one DUI away for a year long suspension, IIRC. If not, at least 8 games minimum, since he already did what, the 4 game, which was reduced to two? Something like that? Either way, Pass rushers come and go. It's much easier to find a pass-rusher than you would find a future potentional franchise LT. __________________ Super Bowl IV, LIV, LVII & LVIII Champions 2020, 2021, 2023, 2024, & 2025 AFC Champions 1985 & 2015 Major League Baseball World Series Champions 1980, 1985, 2014, & 2015 Major League Baseball American League Champions 2015 American League Central Division Champs
Posts: 54,706

08-17-2009, 08:37 PM	#96
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-870901	In a playmaker's league, DE has become the 2nd most important position on the field. The Chiefs D went from being roughly average to being a laughinstock, one of the 2 worst in the league, despite upgrading or staying the same at every position that wasn't Jared Allen. Did nobody see last season? And yet they still want to undervalue a franchise DE? We were worse off for this deal. Did we lose it? Well not really b/c our ****wit GM forced us to do it and we did as well as you have any right to hope for. However, all that did was mitigate the damage. Anyone arguing otherwise really does just look like a homer. P.S. It's also pretty critical to remember that most folks had the Chiefs taking Albert at the 5 if they didn't get that deal done. So if you consider the trade Allen for Dorsey, it looks WAY shitter and probably more accurate than Allen for Albert. Don't try to polish this turd, fellas. You'll just get your hands dirty.
Posts: 66,867

08-17-2009, 08:41 PM	#99
RedThat Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Earth Casino cash: $10004900	So far I have to admit, Minnesota has got the best end out of the deal. The way I see it, Charles=slipping on depth chart, no good Morgan=slipping on depth chart, also no good Our hope so far is Albert. Played well his first season. Can he be a probowler? thats the key, if he can do that, this trade will workout for both sides. If not, then Minny wins this deal. I like Albert and I think he is gonna need 3 years to develop. it takes time for LTs to come in and develop into really good players. So I think only time will tell. But I think Albert has a way to go before we can label him as a future probowl LT. *Can we blame Carl for this move? Absolutely not. Unfair to Carl. Allen wanted to leave, what else could Carl do? This is the thing that really bothers me about professional sports, it seems as if alot of times players have more authority and control over managers in organizations. Shouldn't be that way. It should be the opposite. I wish they treated it like the real world where youre at your job and the managers of the company have the authority to decide what they want to do with you. If you don't like your position within the company, or whatever it is? Too bad..We own you, and if you don't like it theres the door! It sucks. We witness it all the time. Gonzo was an example. We had two really good pieces in place, and got rid of them because they wanted out. So now were forced to build over again! Oh well.
Posts: 6,666

08-17-2009, 08:45 PM	#100
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Personally, I think the most important pieces for the Chiefs to add in next years draft will be a STUD pass rushing OLB and a stud NT. Next, a legit #2 WR. Followed by Olineman and LB's for everyone!
Posts: 13,873