HOF & 3 Coaches

[DaKCMan AP]

Another question: Why do so many consider Tim Brown a 1st ballot HOF but not Cris Carter?

Tim Brown:
16 seasons
255 games
1094 receptions
14934 yards
100 TDs
13.7 yards/reception
4555 return yards
3 return TDs
9 Pro Bowls (6 consecutive)
0x All-Pro

Cris Carter:
16 seasons
234 games
1101 receptions
13899 yards
130 TDs
12.6 yards/reception
8 straight Pro-Bowls
2x All-Pro

[milkman]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Another question: Why do so many consider Tim Brown a 1st ballot HOF but not Cris Carter?

Tim Brown:
16 seasons
255 games
1094 receptions
14934 yards
100 TDs
13.7 yards/reception
4555 return yards
3 return TDs
9 Pro Bowls (6 consecutive)
0x All-Pro

Cris Carter:
16 seasons
234 games
1101 receptions
13899 yards
130 TDs
12.6 yards/reception
8 straight Pro-Bowls
2x All-Pro

Don't know the answer to that.

Brown was good, but I would argue that Carter is better, by far.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Another question: Why do so many consider Tim Brown a 1st ballot HOF but not Cris Carter?

Tim Brown:
16 seasons
255 games
1094 receptions
14934 yards
100 TDs
13.7 yards/reception
4555 return yards
3 return TDs
9 Pro Bowls (6 consecutive)
0x All-Pro

Cris Carter:
16 seasons
234 games
1101 receptions
13899 yards
130 TDs
12.6 yards/reception
8 straight Pro-Bowls
2x All-Pro

I totally agree... next year could have an AMAZING HOF class.

[DaKCMan AP]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I totally agree... next year could have an AMAZING HOF class.

Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith are locks. Then there's: Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Andre Reed, John Randle, Aeneas Williams, Thannon Tharpe, Eddie George among others.

Then 2011 adds Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis and Deion Sanders.

[LTL]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith are locks. Then there's: Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Andre Reed, John Randle, Aeneas Williams, Thannon Tharpe, Eddie George among others.

Then 2011 adds Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis and Deion Sanders.

Is Shields eligible in 2011 or 2012?

[DaKCMan AP]

Originally Posted by LTL

Is Shields eligible in 2011 or 2012?

Eligible for class of 2012.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith are locks. Then there's: Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Andre Reed, John Randle, Aeneas Williams, Thannon Tharpe, Eddie George among others.

Then 2011 adds Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis and Deion Sanders.

There is no way in hell I'd even give a second thought about leaving Eddie George out of the hall.

He was just a mediocre back that got a lot of carries.

[DaKCMan AP]

Originally Posted by milkman

There is no way in hell I'd even give a second thought about leaving Eddie George out of the hall.

He was just a mediocre back that got a lot of carries.

I agree, the dude had a career 3.6 ypc average. However, the media loves him.

[RippedmyFlesh]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

I agree, the dude had a career 3.6 ypc average. However, the media loves him.

From http://www.pro-football-reference.com
Eddie George
Players whose career was of similar quality and shape
Chuck Muncie, Leroy Kelly, Earl Campbell, Ottis Anderson, Clinton Portis, Shaun Alexander, John L. Williams, Floyd Little, Jim Taylor, Jamal Lewis

I would have taylor and campbell in before george.
I think the rest are comparable.
Good but not sure HOF's.


Explanation of the similarity scores
At baseball-reference.com you'll find, for each player in baseball history, a list of players similar to that player. These lists are generated by a method introduced by Bill James in the 1980s, and his aim was to find players who were similar in quality, but also similar in style of play.

The similar players lists here at pro-football-reference are NOT the same thing.

Unfortunately, football stats just aren't descriptive enough to capture players' styles. So we have settled for a method that attempts to find players whose careers were similar in terms of quality and shape. By shape, we mean things like: how many years did he play? how good were his best years, compared to his worst years? did he have a few great years and then several mediocre years, or did he have many good-but-not-great years?

Essentially, if you run across a player you've never heard of before, and if the list of similar players has some names you recognize, this gives you a quick way to (very roughly) figure out where the guy fits in history.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by milkman

There is no way in hell I'd even give a second thought about leaving Eddie George out of the hall.

He was just a mediocre back that got a lot of carries.

I'd like to see his stats, but that's about my impression too. I'd change "mediocre" to "slightly above average" and I agree.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I'd like to see his stats, but that's about my impression too. I'd change "mediocre" to "slightly above average" and I agree.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...G/GeorEd00.htm

I'd call that mediocre, and I'd be generous in doin so.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by milkman

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...G/GeorEd00.htm

I'd call that mediocre, and I'd be generous in doin so.

You can run just off the stats, but it's a bit silly.

First, you give no credit for toughness/longevity.

Second, mediocre suggests BELOW average. Are you saying you think that he was getting all those carries even though he was below the average NFL RB? Not below average HOFer. Just a below average RB during those years int he NFL? It's silly.

Third, those were run oriented teams. Everyone knew what was coming. They didn't have fabulous talent on offense. It was Eddie George and a cloud of dust.

How much different is Bettis?

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BettJe00.htm

Throw out the last two years when George was running on fumes, and he gets pretty close to BEttis' 3.9 YPC average for his career.

But yeah, again, George ain't a HOFer to me no matter how many yards he has, while Bettis is.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I'd like to see his stats, but that's about my impression too. I'd change "mediocre" to "slightly above average" and I agree.

This is where stats get interesting with guys like George...

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...G/GeorEd00.htm

There are a TON of great players with great stats, do they all deserve consideration? I dunno. George was definitely above average and one of the best at his position, but there were a lot of great RBs in his era.

I view George as the Rod Smith of RBs during his era... but without the rings. Don't get me wrong, I think Rod deserves consideration... but, there's a lot of guys with great numbers during that era.

[DaKCMan AP]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

I'd like to see his stats, but that's about my impression too. I'd change "mediocre" to "slightly above average" and I agree.

Comparison to one of the more recently inducted RBs: Thurman Thomas.

Thomas
13 seasons
182 games
2877 carries (222 per year)
12074 yards
65 TDs
4.2 ypc
472 receptions
4458 yards
23 TDs
9.4 ypr
5 straight Pro-Bowls
2x All-Pro

George
9 seasons
141 games
2865 carries (319 per year)
10441 yards
68 TDs
3.6 ypc
268 receptions
2227 yards
10 TDs
8.3 ypr
4 straight Pro-Bowls
1x All-Pro

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith are locks. Then there's: Cris Carter, Tim Brown, Andre Reed, John Randle, Aeneas Williams, Thannon Tharpe, Eddie George among others.

Then 2011 adds Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis and Deion Sanders.

Jerry Rice
Emmit Smith
Shannon Sharpe
Cris Carter

Those should be the locks... Brown, Reed, Randle, George will get in, but maybe not this year.

There will be a few old timers in the next class, but those 4 are who I would vote for ...