Chiefs Interesting..Pats dump O'Connell - Page 4

ILChief · 08-30-2009, 02:51 PM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...evin-oconnell/

chiefzilla1501 · 08-30-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

McDaniels is a QB maker?

Gut has had more opportunity to get better? Really? What was all of last season for Thigpen?

At this very moment, Thigpen couldn't carry Gut's jock, and that's not exactly praise for the latter.

Bellichick helped coach up Brady. McDaniels helped coach up Cassel. Maybe not QB makers, but nobody doubts that the two know how to groom quarterbacks.

Guiterrez has experience in a pro offense and he has had access to far superior coaching. Thigpen has experience in the spread and he was coached by the worst QBs coach in the league. Are you really going to dispute that Thigpen wasn't horribly coached?

At this very moment, Haley, a guy who seems to know a bit about quarterbacks, has had Thigpen come in the game sooner than Guiterrez. Are you seriously going to suggest that Guiterrez is schooling Thigpen right now? Like I said, even though Thigpen is a much rawer QB than Guiterrez, it says a lot that he's still higher on the depth chart. And no, a few good passes against the lowest-string defenses is not going to change my mind.

Brock · 08-30-2009, 05:57 PM

They were giving Thigpen a chance to show some trade value, that's all. He's done here.

**DeezNutz** · 08-30-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Bellichick helped coach up Brady. McDaniels helped coach up Cassel. Maybe not QB makers, but nobody doubts that the two know how to groom quarterbacks.

Guiterrez has experience in a pro offense and he has had access to far superior coaching. Thigpen has experience in the spread and he was coached by the worst QBs coach in the league. Are you really going to dispute that Thigpen wasn't horribly coached?

At this very moment, Haley, a guy who seems to know a bit about quarterbacks, has had Thigpen come in the game sooner than Guiterrez. Are you seriously going to suggest that Guiterrez is schooling Thigpen right now? Like I said, even though Thigpen is a much rawer QB than Guiterrez, it says a lot that he's still higher on the depth chart. And no, a few good passes against the lowest-string defenses is not going to change my mind.

No argument that the Chiefs coaching staff was a joke, on the whole, but Gailey is respected for his ability with QBs, so in that respect it's not *quite* as dire as you suggest.

Just checking, how did Gut get here? Magic? Or did Pioli and Haley bring him in?

penchief · 08-30-2009, 06:07 PM

Ironically, just a couple days before the pats released Gutierrez Gil Brandt was on Sirius NFL radio singing his praises. He was asked who the pats would turn to if Brady went down again and he said there was no question it would have to be Gutierrez. Until hearing that I had never heard of Gutierrez before.

**KcMizzou** · 08-30-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

They were giving Thigpen a chance to show some trade value, that's all. He's done here.

Well that backfired.

Spicy McHaggis · 08-30-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

I dont get it either? WTF??

Its that ole Boomer Grigsby Syndrome again with KC fan:

"Sure, hes not the most talented guy, but hes white, likeable, and gritty" "hes just like one of us!"

In a weird twist, I think Boomer Grigsby was black in the XBox version of Madden 06.

Mr. Krab · 08-30-2009, 06:19 PM

Why does anyone give a shit whether the Pats cut a backup QB?

Jerm · 08-30-2009, 06:19 PM

Anyone else think the Pats dial us up and maybe make a trade for Thigpen?

He wouldn't have to be under center so much in NE...would probably be a good fit.
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chiefzilla1501 · 08-30-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No argument that the Chiefs coaching staff was a joke, on the whole, but Gailey is respected for his ability with QBs, so in that respect it's not *quite* as dire as you suggest.

Just checking, how did Gut get here? Magic? Or did Pioli and Haley bring him in?

I'm sure Pioli brought him in just for competition. He did the same thing with Redd, even though it's become clear that he was never really anything more than training camp fodder. As for Gailey, actually, QBs are not particularly his strong suit. He's dealt with Slash, a veteran Aikman, and Jay Fiedler. Not exactly a glowing track record. And besides, most of Gailey's attention was likely toward Croyle, if anybody. He also probably didn't have stellar coaching in college. I know it's just an opinion, but I just think that Thigpen has a lot more potential than Guiterrez.

**DeezNutz** · 08-30-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I'm sure Pioli brought him in just for competition. He did the same thing with Redd, even though it's become clear that he was never really anything more than training camp fodder. As for Gailey, actually, QBs are not particularly his strong suit. He's dealt with Slash, a veteran Aikman, and Jay Fiedler. Not exactly a glowing track record. And besides, most of Gailey's attention was likely toward Croyle, if anybody. He also probably didn't have stellar coaching in college. I know it's just an opinion, but I just think that Thigpen has a lot more potential than Guiterrez.

Couple of things:

You give McDaniels credit for Cassel, but experience with Aikman means little for Gailey? Ok...

And that attention to Croyle lasted for how long? 10 seconds into game 1 and 7 into Croyle's triumphant return.

Let's agree to disagree. I think Thigpen has an equal amount of heart and LOFT (lack of ****ing talent). You (for some unknown and completely dumb ****ing reason

) believe there is something there.

chiefzilla1501 · 08-30-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Couple of things:

You give McDaniels credit for Cassel, but experience with Aikman means little for Gailey? Ok...

And that attention to Croyle lasted for how long? 10 seconds into game 1 and 7 into Croyle's triumphant return.

Let's agree to disagree. I think Thigpen has an equal amount of heart and LOFT (lack of ****ing talent). You (for some unknown and completely dumb ****ing reason

) believe there is something there.

That's actually a good first point. But regardless, the point to be made is that Thigpen was trained mostly by Dick Curl, whereas Guiterrez was trained mostly by a Bellichick coach. That in itself should speak to how well these guys were trained.

I'm just saying that Matt Guiterrez came to the NFL "NFL ready." He played in a pro offense in college and got good training from good coaches. It should raise a bunch of red flags when an NFL-ready quarterback is cut by some of the best personnel guys in the NFL. Especially considering that they have a starting QB who is coming back from major surgery and when the two guys who won the job over him were Andrew Walter and O'Connell (who was just cut). The point being, if he's NFL ready, then what is his upside if he hasn't even flashed any potential by now? And isn't it concerning that the Patriots cut him so early despite their QB situation?

The Patriots had no qualms about keeping Cassel for many years. They cut the cord on Guiterrez after only two years. It's not as much a question of whether Thigpen is good enough as much as it is whether Guiterrez is good enough.

milkman · 08-30-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

That's actually a good first point. But regardless, the point to be made is that Thigpen was trained mostly by Dick Curl, whereas Guiterrez was trained mostly by a Bellichick coach. That in itself should speak to how well these guys were trained.

I'm just saying that Matt Guiterrez came to the NFL "NFL ready." He played in a pro offense in college and got good training from good coaches. It should raise a bunch of red flags when an NFL-ready quarterback is cut by some of the best personnel guys in the NFL. Especially considering that they have a starting QB who is coming back from major surgery and when the two guys who won the job over him were Andrew Walter and O'Connell (who was just cut). The point being, if he's NFL ready, then what is his upside if he hasn't even flashed any potential by now? And isn't it concerning that the Patriots cut him so early despite their QB situation?

The Patriots had no qualms about keeping Cassel for many years. They cut the cord on Guiterrez after only two years. It's not as much a question of whether Thigpen is good enough as much as it is whether Guiterrez is good enough.

Ok. let me see if I understand this.

A QB who played his college ball at Idaho State came to the NFL, NFL ready?

Is that what you're trying to sell?

Oh Jesus.

chiefzilla1501 · 08-30-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Ok. let me see if I understand this.

A QB who played his college ball at Idaho State came to the NFL, NFL ready?

Is that what you're trying to sell?

Oh Jesus.

Guiterrez? He came from Michigan before Idaho State. And that was a pro style offense.

milkman · 08-30-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Guiterrez? He came from Michigan before Idaho State. And that was a pro style offense.

So, I didn't understand.

He went to Michigan as a freshman backup, was slated to start as a soph before gitting hurt, losing out on on the starter role and transferring to Idaho State?

So a QB that was a backup for one season in a pro style offense at Michigan before transferring to Idaho State was NFL ready?

Is that what you are trying to tell us?

Really?

chiefzilla1501 · 08-30-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

So, I didn't understand.

He went to Michigan as a freshman backup, was slated to start as a soph before gitting hurt, losing out on on the starter role and transferring to Idaho State?

So a QB that was a backup for one season in a pro style offense at Michigan before transferring to Idaho State was NFL ready?

Is that what you are trying to tell us?

Really?

Maybe a stretch. But the point is that he was trained in a pro style offense and he played in a pro style offense. He got good coaching on mechanics, etc... at Michigan. When he walked into New England, the coaches probably didn't have to work with him that much from a mechanics standpoint.

Because the Pats showed they're not overly concerned with experience (they kept Cassel on the roster despite having no major college experience). The fact that New England cut him again just goes to show that a really good NFL team with real good personnel guys didn't think he was worth keeping around.

Let me again pose this question because I have yet to hear a good answer. If Guiterrez had any hint of an upside, then why would NE cut him for a bunch of nobodies?

08-30-2009, 02:51 PM
ILChief MVP Join Date: Jan 2001 Casino cash: $7764831	Interesting..Pats dump O'Connell http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...evin-oconnell/
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08-30-2009, 05:57 PM	#47
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	They were giving Thigpen a chance to show some trade value, that's all. He's done here.
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08-30-2009, 06:07 PM	#49
penchief MVP Join Date: Feb 2003 Casino cash: $6085286	Ironically, just a couple days before the pats released Gutierrez Gil Brandt was on Sirius NFL radio singing his praises. He was asked who the pats would turn to if Brady went down again and he said there was no question it would have to be Gutierrez. Until hearing that I had never heard of Gutierrez before.
Posts: 17,045

08-30-2009, 06:19 PM	#53
Jerm Mahomes > God Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $4408996	Anyone else think the Pats dial us up and maybe make a trade for Thigpen? He wouldn't have to be under center so much in NE...would probably be a good fit. Posted via Mobile Device
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