Greinke is in an arms race for the AL Cy Young

[gblowfish]

I'm just sayin, to most of MLB, KC might as well be in Siberia. Greinke has to do better than pitchers that have good teams behind them. Sure, he'd win hands down if he pitched for NY, or Boston, or the LA Angels. But he doesn't. So he has to be extra special to outshine all these other guys. Winning under pressure counts in the minds of baseball writers. When the heat was on, and it was time to show his stuff, he got beat. End of story. Doesn't mean he's not one of the best in baseball, he just doesn't matter to the majority of the league.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

I'm just sayin, to most of MLB, KC might as well be in Siberia. Greinke has to do better than pitchers that have good teams behind them. Sure, he'd win hands down if he pitched for NY, or Boston, or the LA Angels. But he doesn't. So he has to be extra special to outshine all these other guys. Winning under pressure counts in the minds of baseball writers. When the heat was on, and it was time to show his stuff, he got beat. End of story. Doesn't mean he's not one of the best in baseball, he just doesn't matter to the majority of the league.

when the heat was on against Boston earlier this month and Detroit a few weeks later...he had 11 IP, 0 ER, and about 95 K's...

If the Cy Young comes down to ONE ND...than **** the baseball writers of America.

I'd bet $50 right now he'll win it...he has to.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

I'm just sayin, to most of MLB, KC might as well be in Siberia. Greinke has to do better than pitchers that have good teams behind them. Sure, he'd win hands down if he pitched for NY, or Boston, or the LA Angels. But he doesn't. So he has to be extra special to outshine all these other guys. Winning under pressure counts in the minds of baseball writers. When the heat was on, and it was time to show his stuff, he got beat. End of story. Doesn't mean he's not one of the best in baseball, he just doesn't matter to the majority of the league.

If this thread were a discussion in a bar, I would break a bottle over your face and start throwing punches at you.

Saying that voters might have a large-market bias is not an argument against Zack. Also, your presumption that Zack's final start was the only one hwere he was "under pressure" is false.

I can't tell if you believe the things you're saying or if you're just passing along what you feel the majority of voters think. Either way, if they do think that then the Cy Young is a worthless award.

[gblowfish]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

If this thread were a discussion in a bar, I would break a bottle over your face and start throwing punches at you.

Or sure, you might get away with that now that I'm 50. I was a bar bouncer in Columbia at Mizzou for four years back in the late 70s, so bring it on, Jasper...



I hope he wins too. I'm just realistic enough to know that KC is considered a AAAA team at best. Not even in the discussion as a legit MLB franchise. You have Royal Blue Colored glasses on.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Or sure, you might get away with that now that I'm 50. I was a bar bouncer in Columbia at Mizzou for four years back in the late 70s, so bring it on, Jasper...



I hope he wins too. I'm just realistic enough to know that KC is considered a AAAA team at best. Not even in the discussion as a legit MLB franchise. You have Royal Blue Colored glasses on.

Blind mother****ers with no need for colored glasses can tell that Zack is the only possible option (if voters were to take the award seriously).

[penchief]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Sure, he'd win hands down if he pitched for NY.

That's not really true. Whether some people will admit it or not there is an anti-Yankee bias in much of the media. And there is a pro-Red Sox bias. Jeter got jobbed a few years back when Morneau won it. His numbers were far superior to Pedroia who won it last year for doing pretty much what Jeter does but not as well.

A couple of historical examples. Guidry's great season in '78 when he went 25-3 with a 1.79 ERA was the sole reason the yankees won the penant that year. If ever a pitcher was going to get MVP that would have been it. But they saw fit to give the MVP to Jim Rice. Not really a big deal. The MVP is for position players, right?

However, just a few years later when Clemens had a seaon nowhere near as dominating as Guidry's, he gets the MVP over Mattingly who has an unbelievable year. Mattingly's numbers were far superior to Rice's and Guidry's were far superior to Clemens' numbers.

Unless it's just so obvious the writers will give it somebody other than a Yankee any time it's close, IMO.

I'd feel pretty good about Greinke's chances if I were you. He deserves it.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by penchief

That's not really true. Whether some people will admit it or not there is an anti-Yankee bias in much of the media. And there is a pro-Red Sox bias. Jeter got jobbed a few years back when Morneau won it. His numbers were far superior to Pedroia who won it last year for doing pretty much what Jeter does but not as well.

A couple of historical examples. Guidry's great season in '78 when he went 25-3 with a 1.79 ERA was the sole reason the yankees won the penant that year. If ever a pitcher was going to get MVP that would have been it. But they saw fit to give the MVP to Jim Rice. Not really a big deal. The MVP is for position players, right?

However, just a few years later when Clemens had a seaon nowhere near as dominating as Guidry's, he gets the MVP over Mattingly who has an unbelievable year. Mattingly's numbers were far superior to Rice's and Guidry's were far superior to Clemens' numbers.

Unless it's just so obvious the writers will give it somebody other than a Yankee any time it's close, IMO.

I'd feel pretty good about Greinke's chances if I were you. He deserves it.

Different awards. MVP is a really, really subjective award and always has been. Cy Young has (or should have) no such subjectivity.

[penchief]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Different awards. MVP is a really, really subjective award and always has been. Cy Young has (or should have) no such subjectivity.

Just trying to illustrate my point about anti-Yankee bias among a lot of baseball writers. If the shoe had been reversed Mattingly would have won the MVP over Clemens and Guidry would have one the MVP over Rice. No matter which logic you try to use, the Red Sox got the benefit of that logic.

That said, Greinke deserves the Cy Young. IMO, he'll get it. Especially if he's competing against Sabbathia's 19 wins. Sabbathia's ERA is strike one against him, his bad outing to finish the season is strike two, and the fact that he's a Yankee is strike three.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by penchief

Just trying to illustrate my point about anti-Yankee bias among a lot of baseball writers. If the shoe had been reversed Mattingly would have won the MVP over Clemens and Guidry would have one the MVP over Rice. No matter which logic you try to use, the Red Sox got the benefit of that logic.

That said, Greinke deserves the Cy Young. IMO, he'll get it. Especially if he's competing against Sabbathia's 19 wins. Sabbathia's ERA is strike one against him, his bad outing to finish the season is strike two, and the fact that he's a Yankee is strike three.

He's no longer competing against CC. CC has no chance. Verlander and King Felix have 19 wins, too, while putting up better numbers. King Felix has been like Greinke-light this season; he's very, very good.