Chiefs At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? - Page 11

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05:47 PM

After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment:

"We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone."

Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season.

Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread.

Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals):

1st downs: (63) (62)

3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%)

Total yards: (1145) (986)

Rushing yards: (554) (406)

Passing yards: (591) (580)

Sacks Allowed: (12) (13)

Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230

Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG)

Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4.

Defensively:

1st downs allowed: (74) (85)

3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%)

Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516)

Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514)

Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002)

Sacks: (3) (5)

Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG)

Turnover margin: (+2) (Even)

Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense.

The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players?

What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly ****ing basis.

As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me.

The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me.

There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working...

Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some ****ing improvement. Not necessarily wins.

IMPROVEMENT.

htismaqe · 10-06-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It was absolutely FOOLISH to spend THREE of the top draft picks in 2008 & 2009 on FIVE TECH PLAYERS. The Chiefs should have drafted Sanchez, Mauluga, offensive lineman and skill players in this past draft.

Let's keep it real here - the above is an opinion. Backed by considerable evidence it would seem, but an opinion nonetheless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The last three years DID NOT have to be meaning less. The Chiefs made the right decisions in the draft.

There's not much evidence to support this. We've cut several of those draft picks and they sat out there with nobody wanting to pick them up. The guys that did get picked up immediately were guys like Turk McBride, who immediately went to play for Gunther.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Let's keep it real here - the above is an opinion. Backed by considerable evidence it would seem, but an opinion nonetheless.

Of course it is. A very opinionated opinion at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

There's not much evidence to support this. We've cut several of those draft picks and they sat out there with nobody wanting to pick them up. The guys that did get picked up immediately were guys like Turk McBride, who immediately went to play for Gunther.

Well, we cut Pollard, who I did not include. We cut Turk who I felt could certainly be serviceable at a 4-3 player, more so at DT than DE.

The bottom line is that this team had invested heavily in 4-3 players, especially 4-3 defensive lineman and none of these guys had a chance to grow as players. You know as well as anyone that most defensive lineman take at least two years, if not three, to mature.

The Chiefs cut Turk after one.

My feeling is that if they had added a few linebackers, especially a Rey Maualuga and continued with the 4-3, this defense would be much better off now and in the future.

As it stands, we've got a long, long way to go before we even know what we have as a defense.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If I'm Clark Hunt interviewing Scott Pioli and Pioli tells me "Hey, my philosophy on defense is the 3-4. So the first order of business is to dump all of your high draft picks from the past two years in order to implement my defense", I say "Thanks for you time" and I'm hiring someone else.

It was absolutely FOOLISH to spend THREE of the top draft picks in 2008 & 2009 on FIVE TECH PLAYERS. The Chiefs should have drafted Sanchez, Mauluga, offensive lineman and skill players in this past draft.

Instead, we're ****ED for at least two more years because the amount of holes on both defense and offense cannot be filled with even adequate players in the draft and free agency.

Tom Dimitroff got that part right.

Scott Pioli did not.

Bullshit. Bull-****ING-Shit.

The last three years DID NOT have to be meaning less. The Chiefs made the right decisions in the draft. A pass rushing defensive end opposite Jared Allen. A stud WR to help in the passing game. Two 4-3 DT/DE's. A franchise LT, a college super-stud DT, a stud CB, a very good CB (Carr), etc.

Pioli is the guy that said "**** this. We're going 3-4" and basically negated the past few years. Hali can't play OLB in a 3-4. Dorsey's not a 5 Tech. Brandon Albert has taken a HUGE step backwards. Dwayne Bowe looks like ****ing Derrick Alexander out there. Flowers and Carr are fine but BFD? Tyson Jackson should have NEVER been drafted with the #3 overall pick.

Pioli IGNORED this shit offensive line in free-agency and the draft and he continues to ignore it.

I'm not even TALKING about Herm or Peterson: This season's failures lie directly in the lap of one man: Scott Pioli.

PERIOD.

Feel Better?

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Feel Better?

Not really.

This is probably the most angry I've ever been as a Chiefs fan.

More so than the Tom Bettis days.

More so than the Wing T with Levy.

More so than with Mackovic and his firing.

Way more than Ganz.

More frustrated than 1997.

Just angry.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 12:05 PM

Dane, it just goes to show us as fans, that this franchise has never planned for the future.

Lets hope now that we have a new GM, we are planning for the future. Regardless of what has happened in the darkest of Chiefs years, we might be working towards a goal..

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Not really.

This is probably the most angry I've ever been as a Chiefs fan.

More so than the Tom Bettis days.

More so than the Wing T with Levy.

More so than with Mackovic and his firing.

Way more than Ganz.

More frustrated than 1997.

Just angry.

Now you are feeling what I have felt the Day Herm was hired....

Hell after beeing drug through the depths of hell recently with the Chiefs. To me and my opinion, I feel we have the guys in place to make this better...

Yes it seems bleak, but never as hopeless as it was with Carl and Herm.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Dane, it just goes to show us as fans, that this franchise has never planned for the future.

And that continues to this day.

Instead of drafting a young QB, linebackers and offensive lineman, which were positions of dire need, they instead traded for a 27 year-old that played in 15 games in 7 years, signed a 33 year old POS guard and signed a couple of scrubs and a couple of statues to play linebacker.

No foresight, no future, no forward thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Lets hope now that we have a new GM, we are planning for the future. Regardless of what has happened in the darkest of Chiefs years, we might be working towards a goal..

I don't see it.

I just don't see it.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Now you are feeling what I have felt the Day Herm was hired....

Well, that's complete nonsense. NO ONE knew what would happen in Kansas City after Herm was hired. He's taken 3 teams out of 5 to the playoffs and still managed to take the Chiefs to the playoffs in his first year even though he lost his starting QB and starting left tackle immediately.

If you want to blame anyone, blame Carl Peterson for allowing this franchise to piss away draft choices for aging players and coaches that brought nothing in the long or short run. They pissed away 35 draft choices over that five year period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Hell after beeing drug through the depths of hell recently with the Chiefs. To me and my opinion, I feel we have the guys in place to make this better...

To date, I disagree. Haley seems overworked and overmatched and Pioli's personnel moves leave a considerable amount to be desired.

Do you think there's even ONE team in the NFL that would trade their 2009 draft with the Chiefs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Yes it seems bleak, but never as hopeless as it was with Carl and Herm.

I disagree.

It feels exactly the same. Although I liked the 2008 draft much more than the 2009 draft.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-06-2009, 02:15 PM

Herm was a terrible game day coach, and too much of a slackass in practice. But he had the right idea on how to build a team.

I really wish that we could have used Herm's approach to team building with DV's practice habits, and had a decent talent evaluator with a long term plan

Considering we were deficient in two of the three phases for the last 20 years, with no planning for the future, it's no ****ing doubt that we are as bad as we are.

Gun was awful at all three and had no foresight
Vermeil was a decent game day coach, a great practice coach, and terrible at talent, and he was shortsighted
Marty was a mediocre game day coach (awful in the clutch), one of the best practice coaches of all time, and a poor evaluator of talent with middling foresight.
Herm was a terrible gameday coach, a terrible practice coach, and a mediocre talent evaluator with great foresight.

SDChiefs · 10-06-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

I don't think we are near as much a cluster**** as we were against Oakland, Carolina and Tennessee last year.

The first-quarter season stats from 2008 are being skewed big time by that game against Denver.

I do not expect this team to get beat 34-0 at any point this year. Nor do I expect a 34-10 loss at home.

Does anyone remember 7 carries, 2 yards for LJ last year in Carolina? I haven't forgotten. I do not expect to see that level if incompetency from this staff.

Matt Cassel. 14-18 for 90 yards passing. Hmmm, yeah no incompetence on this staff.

Chiefnj2 · 10-06-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Well, that's complete nonsense. NO ONE knew what would happen in Kansas City after Herm was hired.

Anyone from the New York area, or any Jet fan could tell you what was going to happen with Herm. And it did happen.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDChiefs

Matt Cassel. 14-18 for 90 yards passing. Hmmm, yeah no incompetence on this staff.

If Dick Curl were still the QB coach, we'd never hear the end of it from Reerun.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Anyone from the New York area, or any Jet fan could tell you what was going to happen with Herm. And it did happen.

What, that he'd coach a team to the playoffs after losing his franchise left tackle in training camp and his starter on opening day?

Wow, what a bunch of fooking New Yawk geniouses!

RippedmyFlesh · 10-06-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Anyone from the New York area, or any Jet fan could tell you what was going to happen with Herm. And it did happen.

Agree the qb killing rrpp herm was familiar to anyone in ny getting jets games. He was fun to watch at press conferences when he WASN'T YOUR coach.

ThunderChief · 10-06-2009, 02:42 PM

Trust your eyes. Trust you instincts. Really....what the HELL do you think???

10-05-2009, 01:50 PM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2031115	At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment: "We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone." Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season. Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread. Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals): 1st downs: (63) (62) 3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%) Total yards: (1145) (986) Rushing yards: (554) (406) Passing yards: (591) (580) Sacks Allowed: (12) (13) Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230 Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG) Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4. Defensively: 1st downs allowed: (74) (85) 3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%) Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516) Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514) Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002) Sacks: (3) (5) Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG) Turnover margin: (+2) (Even) Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense. The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players? What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly **ing basis. As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me. The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me. There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working... Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some *ing improvement. Not necessarily wins. IMPROVEMENT. Last edited by OnTheWarpath15; 10-05-2009 at 05:47 PM..*
Posts: 60,758

10-06-2009, 12:05 PM	#155
Reerun_KC Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7231160	Dane, it just goes to show us as fans, that this franchise has never planned for the future. Lets hope now that we have a new GM, we are planning for the future. Regardless of what has happened in the darkest of Chiefs years, we might be working towards a goal..
Posts: 1,529

10-06-2009, 02:15 PM	#159
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	Herm was a terrible game day coach, and too much of a slackass in practice. But he had the right idea on how to build a team. I really wish that we could have used Herm's approach to team building with DV's practice habits, and had a decent talent evaluator with a long term plan Considering we were deficient in two of the three phases for the last 20 years, with no planning for the future, it's no ****ing doubt that we are as bad as we are. Gun was awful at all three and had no foresight Vermeil was a decent game day coach, a great practice coach, and terrible at talent, and he was shortsighted Marty was a mediocre game day coach (awful in the clutch), one of the best practice coaches of all time, and a poor evaluator of talent with middling foresight. Herm was a terrible gameday coach, a terrible practice coach, and a mediocre talent evaluator with great foresight. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

10-06-2009, 02:42 PM	#165
ThunderChief Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: N Florida Casino cash: $10004900	Trust your eyes. Trust you instincts. Really....what the HELL do you think???
Posts: 70