Chiefs Deep Thoughts: By OnTheWarpath58 - Page 3

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-12-2009, 09:04 AM

Getting ready to watch the broadcast now, but I thought I'd share my thoughts from yesterday with Tiny and Clayton watching from Section 334 at Arrowhead.

Do they call it "offense" because it's offensive?

Watching from the upper level end zone gives you an opporunity to see the entire field, plays develop, etc - and just as suspected, our WR's ARE getting open. Cassel IS holding the ball too long. I lost count at how many times Bowe wasn't the 1st or second read.

There were a few plays that come to mind that Clay and I discussed. One was a completion to Ryan, where he ran 10-15 yards up the seam, then hitched, and Cassel hit him. Cassel's eyes never left Ryan, and I asked where the **** he would have gone with the ball had Ryan not been open. You can't lock onto one ****ing guy in this league.

Another, where Bowe ran a 10 yard out, was wide open, and Cassel threw the ball away.

Guys WERE open yesterday, but Cassel has to realize that guys aren't going to be WIDE ****ING OPEN like they were in NE. If the WR has a step, get the ****ing ball in there.

Which he did on the game tying drive. So if we can program Matt Cassel's brain to think that every drive is do or die, he might become a solid QB. Otherwise, we have a "franchise QB" that's afraid to throw the ball in tight spots.

Speaking of OL, pass protection and run blocking became noticably improved when Goff left the game.

So, should they call the defense "offense" as well? They are offensive too.

I'll start with the only two positives I saw.

Glenn Dorsey had his best game of the season. And I thought that Flowers had a good game as well, though I don't recall them throwing at him much - there were several plays that he either made the play in run support, or turned the RB back inside to the big boys, usually Mays.

Mike Brown is a slower, dumber, undisciplined version of Bernard Pollard. I'm sure that Leggett is getting all the blame for the Austin TD's, but had Brown done his job, they would have been 15 yard gains instead of 60.

Mike Vrabel shoudl stick to playing TE, because he's ****ing worthless as a LB.

Another game giving up 500 yards of offense, 150 of it on the ground, and I'm sure someone, somewhere has said something to the effect of the "defense is getting better." Bullshit.

The Cowboys were the gift that kept on giving, and we said "**** you."

I don't recall a game where the opposition did this much to give a game to the Chiefs. A bounty of gifts wrapped in nice paper and a bow, and we shunned it like it was socks and underwear from Great Aunt Gertrude.

13 penalties. 4 fumbles, two of which we recovered and started drives in/near the red zone. (Thanks for half out points, Dallas!) Austin dropped 2 TD passes, and there was a 3rd at our end of the stadium that was dropped, and I don't recall who the WR was.

And the best gift of all: Starting a drive in OT from the 50 ****ing yard line, and getting ONE YARD. Nothing like getting that bike you wanted for Christmas, then getting so excited you decided to take it for a spin before Dad installed the seat. Ouch.

Someone tell Dorothy that "there's no place like home" is a crock of shit

At bare minimum, half the stadium was in blue, and personally I think we were outnumbered. Reminded me of the game in STL back in 2006 where we outnumbered Rams fans. Dallas fans were loader when thier team needed it that Chiefs fans were, crowd noise was even a factor on an offensive penalty we committed.

Wait 'til Pittsburgh comes in, it'll be 75/25 Steelers fans.

Greatest fans in the NFL, my ass.

That's it from memory, I'll probably post additional thoughts as the TV broadcast sparks some more.

**dirk digler** · 10-12-2009, 10:20 AM

Good post OTW. I was at the game yesterday as well and agree with most of your post. My biggest complaint about Cassel is he holds the ball way too long but I couldn't tell if the WR's were getting open alot because it seemed someone was in his face the whole time. After the game I heard a crazy stat that he got hit around 35 times out of his 41 attempts. I am really surprised he is still standing today.

On the defense side of the ball I kept yelling all game long not to blitz because every time they did they got smoked. They also left Legget on the island by himself which is horrible decision because he can't cover\tackle worth a shit.

As far as the crowd\fans go I will have to disagree with you on this. The Chiefs now are tied with the Bucs for the worst losing record over a 2 year period yet 50,000 Chief fans showed up and this was the first time since probably the Colts playoff game where everyone was standing the entire game.

TennisMenace · 10-12-2009, 10:35 AM

Allow me to make two observations. (First post. I have a very soft spot in my heart for the Chiefs because I believe they have one of, if not the GREATEST fans in America.

1. Cassel needs to throw it to Bowe even if he has to fight for the ball. Bowe is a stud and he will get it.

2. Cassel holds onto the ball too long.

3. Please say goodbye to LJ

4. Chiefs must begin right now to see what JCharles can do with more playing time. It is not easy to show your skills when you only get 4-5 touches per game. You need to get into a rhythm and see what the opponent is doing over time (I played college football.)

5. The Charles' naysayers perhaps are misguided here.
First, I hear he is too small. He is 5'11" and about 200 pounds. There have been plenty of NFL runners with that build who survive on speed and stealth. Besides, see his college career.
Secondly, I read all about his many fumbles. Well, he has only lost one this year, on a kickoff, and has lost two in his career. Tiki Barber lost a hundred, or so it seemed, yet the giants stuck with him and ultimately Coughlin showed him how to carry the ball.

I have more to share, but let's chew on and discuss these points.

Great to be here. Sorry if this comes across too arrogant; that's not the real me. You guys rock!
TM

**SAUTO** · 10-12-2009, 10:44 AM

if a reciever is open and the qb cant see it is he really open? kinda like if that tree in the forest falls and no one is there to hear it does it make a noise?

It's nice to sit in a seat and second guess, i'm sure its ALOT different with 5 guys running free at you

Coogs · 10-12-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TennisMenace

Allow me to make two observations. (First post. I have a very soft spot in my heart for the Chiefs because I believe they have one of, if not the GREATEST fans in America.

1. Cassel needs to throw it to Bowe even if he has to fight for the ball. Bowe is a stud and he will get it.

2. Cassel holds onto the ball too long.

3. Please say goodbye to LJ

4. Chiefs must begin right now to see what JCharles can do with more playing time. It is not easy to show your skills when you only get 4-5 touches per game. You need to get into a rhythm and see what the opponent is doing over time (I played college football.)

5. The Charles' naysayers perhaps are misguided here.
First, I hear he is too small. He is 5'11" and about 200 pounds. There have been plenty of NFL runners with that build who survive on speed and stealth. Besides, see his college career.
Secondly, I read all about his many fumbles. Well, he has only lost one this year, on a kickoff, and has lost two in his career. Tiki Barber lost a hundred, or so it seemed, yet the giants stuck with him and ultimately Coughlin showed him how to carry the ball.

I have more to share, but let's chew on and discuss these points.

Great to be here. Sorry if this comes across too arrogant; that's not the real me. You guys rock!
TM

Good post! I agree with pretty much all of it, and I also learned that 2=5!

TennisMenace · 10-12-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

Good post! I agree with pretty much all of it, and I also learned that 2=5!

Oooops...I guess I got carried away.!

JD10367 · 10-12-2009, 10:55 AM

Cassel may or may not be developing a case of Drew Bledsoeitis. This is a condition where, after being hit so many times and not having faith in your OL and skill players, you develop a.) happy feet, b.) lock onto a WR without seeing options, c.) hold onto the ball too long and get sacked, and/or d.) get skittish and throw the ball away too early. Having said that, Cassel is young enough and talented enough to work through it.

One issue is the same one I see with my Patriots: shitting OCing and playcalling. Both Brady and Cassel suffered similar fates: when they were allowed to open things up and do what they do best, they did well, but when the shitty offensive calling got in the way the team sucked. 1st down, run for 1. 2nd down, run for 1. 3rd down, incomplete (since 3rd and long is an obvious passing down). Punt. NO team will look good doing that.

Say what you want about him, but Cassel's not the problem on your team. Starting QB is low down on your list of worries. Frankly, if my Patriots had held onto him and let Brady come back slowly, the Pats would be 5-0 right now.

soundmind · 10-12-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coogs

Good post! I agree with pretty much all of it, and I also learned that 2=5!

Yeah, kind of awesome. Also, my only knock on Charles outside the fumbling is that I'm willing to bet he can't read. Man, I really wanted to move Larry and somehow take a shot at Donald Brown last year, I think that dude's got something.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-12-2009, 10:59 AM

Excellent analysis, OTWP58!

The I noticed immediately was that when Smith replaced Albert and Alleman replaced Goof, the running lanes opened up, Cassel appeared more confident and the offense put together a good drive. Why Goof returned to the game was beyond me.

The bottom line for me is that Alleman is far superior to Goof and that the Chiefs need to get Wade Smith on the field, whether it's at center or right tackle.

He's far too athletic to be sitting on the bench.

KCUnited · 10-12-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Excellent analysis, OTWP58!

The I noticed immediately was that when Smith replaced Albert and Alleman replaced Goof, the running lanes opened up, Cassel appeared more confident and the offense put together a good drive. Why Goof returned to the game was beyond me.

The bottom line for me is that Alleman is far superior to Goof and that the Chiefs need to get Wade Smith on the field, whether it's at center or right tackle.

He's far too athletic to be sitting on the bench.

Was the reason Smith got in because Eat Dookie was dinged? He's listed behind Waters and Niswanger on the depth chart with Dookie at the back up Tackle spot.

Sully · 10-12-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Getting ready to watch the broadcast now, but I thought I'd share my thoughts from yesterday with Tiny and Clayton watching from Section 334 at Arrowhead.

Do they call it "offense" because it's offensive?

Watching from the upper level end zone gives you an opporunity to see the entire field, plays develop, etc - and just as suspected, our WR's ARE getting open. Cassel IS holding the ball too long. I lost count at how many times Bowe wasn't the 1st or second read.

There were a few plays that come to mind that Clay and I discussed. One was a completion to Ryan, where he ran 10-15 yards up the seam, then hitched, and Cassel hit him. Cassel's eyes never left Ryan, and I asked where the **** he would have gone with the ball had Ryan not been open. You can't lock onto one ****ing guy in this league.

Another, where Bowe ran a 10 yard out, was wide open, and Cassel threw the ball away.

Guys WERE open yesterday, but Cassel has to realize that guys aren't going to be WIDE ****ING OPEN like they were in NE. If the WR has a step, get the ****ing ball in there.

Which he did on the game tying drive. So if we can program Matt Cassel's brain to think that every drive is do or die, he might become a solid QB. Otherwise, we have a "franchise QB" that's afraid to throw the ball in tight spots.

Speaking of OL, pass protection and run blocking became noticably improved when Goff left the game.

I agree. I think he is so used to not having time, that those few instances where he does have the time to go to a 2nd or 3rd read, the internal clock is telling him to lock on. I hope we haven't broken the guy...but he seemed very David Carr-ish. That said, I still was impressed with his guts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

So, should they call the defense "offense" as well? They are offensive too.

I'll start with the only two positives I saw.

Glenn Dorsey had his best game of the season. And I thought that Flowers had a good game as well, though I don't recall them throwing at him much - there were several plays that he either made the play in run support, or turned the RB back inside to the big boys, usually Mays.

Mike Brown is a slower, dumber, undisciplined version of Bernard Pollard. I'm sure that Leggett is getting all the blame for the Austin TD's, but had Brown done his job, they would have been 15 yard gains instead of 60.

Mike Vrabel shoudl stick to playing TE, because he's ****ing worthless as a LB.

Another game giving up 500 yards of offense, 150 of it on the ground, and I'm sure someone, somewhere has said something to the effect of the "defense is getting better." Bullshit.

I think Dorsey had a better game last week, but have been very impressed with him the past two weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

The Cowboys were the gift that kept on giving, and we said "**** you."

I don't recall a game where the opposition did this much to give a game to the Chiefs. A bounty of gifts wrapped in nice paper and a bow, and we shunned it like it was socks and underwear from Great Aunt Gertrude.

13 penalties. 4 fumbles, two of which we recovered and started drives in/near the red zone. (Thanks for half out points, Dallas!) Austin dropped 2 TD passes, and there was a 3rd at our end of the stadium that was dropped, and I don't recall who the WR was.

And the best gift of all: Starting a drive in OT from the 50 ****ing yard line, and getting ONE YARD. Nothing like getting that bike you wanted for Christmas, then getting so excited you decided to take it for a spin before Dad installed the seat. Ouch.

Nothing to add to this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Someone tell Dorothy that "there's no place like home" is a crock of shit

At bare minimum, half the stadium was in blue, and personally I think we were outnumbered. Reminded me of the game in STL back in 2006 where we outnumbered Rams fans. Dallas fans were loader when thier team needed it that Chiefs fans were, crowd noise was even a factor on an offensive penalty we committed.

Wait 'til Pittsburgh comes in, it'll be 75/25 Steelers fans.

Greatest fans in the NFL, my ass.

That's it from memory, I'll probably post additional thoughts as the TV broadcast sparks some more.

I was livid leaving the game yesterday. I promised myself I wasn't going to let games affect me this year, and so far they haven't, but the fact that, IMO, it was at least 75% Cowboys fans in our place was bullcrap. KC fans have proven we aren't the greatest fans in the NFL.
We have proven that we belong among the elite of fair-weather fans, though.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-12-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCUnited

Was the reason Smith got in because Eat Dookie was dinged? He's listed behind Waters and Niswanger on the depth chart with Dookie at the back up Tackle spot.

Nsuckwe was inactive. Why the Chiefs tried him at right tackle after he effectively started 15 games for the Dolphins at right guard is way beyond my ability to comprehend.

I believe that Wade Smith is their "utility" lineman, meaning he can play any spot on the line and fill in when needed.

Micjones · 10-12-2009, 12:12 PM

Cassel is definitely holding on to the ball too long in some situations.
No question about that.

To win he'll need to take more chances, but he will also need this Offensive Line to give him time to go through his reads.

He's not turning the ball over so I suppose all isn't lost.

Sure-Oz · 10-12-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Excellent analysis, OTWP58!

The I noticed immediately was that when Smith replaced Albert and Alleman replaced Goof, the running lanes opened up, Cassel appeared more confident and the offense put together a good drive. Why Goof returned to the game was beyond me.

The bottom line for me is that Alleman is far superior to Goof and that the Chiefs need to get Wade Smith on the field, whether it's at center or right tackle.

He's far too athletic to be sitting on the bench.

You'd think our awesome coaching staff would have the best guys out there

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-12-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster Hymen

You keep patting yourself on the back about this. If I were you, I would take any win I could get too. The fact of the matter is, no one is saying that Brown played well, or did his job on those plays. They're just pointing out that Legget is as bad as Brown is, and neither should be on an NFL roster.

PS: Pollard takes the same angle, or worse, and is just as slow.

Bullshit. There were multiple threads that popped up instantly urging for Leggett to be cut. Not one. Not two. Several. It was the same shit in the game thread. Of course, since you're the kind of dumb mother****er who only posts to rip on about 5 people, I don't expect you to get this.

The fact of the matter is that someone could put a ****ing bullet through your brain and the slug would be the first original item to pass through your imbecile cranium since you were pulled out from your mother's diseased womb.

chiefs1111 · 10-12-2009, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Excellent analysis, OTWP58!

The I noticed immediately was that when Smith replaced Albert and Alleman replaced Goof, the running lanes opened up, Cassel appeared more confident and the offense put together a good drive. Why Goof returned to the game was beyond me.

The bottom line for me is that Alleman is far superior to Goof and that the Chiefs need to get Wade Smith on the field, whether it's at center or right tackle.

He's far too athletic to be sitting on the bench.

well,lets hope Haley notices this and makes the changes....

10-12-2009, 09:04 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	Deep Thoughts: By OnTheWarpath58 Getting ready to watch the broadcast now, but I thought I'd share my thoughts from yesterday with Tiny and Clayton watching from Section 334 at Arrowhead. Do they call it "offense" because it's offensive? Watching from the upper level end zone gives you an opporunity to see the entire field, plays develop, etc - and just as suspected, our WR's ARE getting open. Cassel IS holding the ball too long. I lost count at how many times Bowe wasn't the 1st or second read. There were a few plays that come to mind that Clay and I discussed. One was a completion to Ryan, where he ran 10-15 yards up the seam, then hitched, and Cassel hit him. Cassel's eyes never left Ryan, and I asked where the ** he would have gone with the ball had Ryan not been open. You can't lock onto one ing guy in this league. Another, where Bowe ran a 10 yard out, was wide open, and Cassel threw the ball away. Guys WERE open yesterday, but Cassel has to realize that guys aren't going to be WIDE ING OPEN like they were in NE. If the WR has a step, get the ing ball in there. Which he did on the game tying drive. So if we can program Matt Cassel's brain to think that every drive is do or die, he might become a solid QB. Otherwise, we have a "franchise QB" that's afraid to throw the ball in tight spots. Speaking of OL, pass protection and run blocking became noticably improved when Goff left the game. So, should they call the defense "offense" as well? They are offensive too. I'll start with the only two positives I saw. Glenn Dorsey had his best game of the season. And I thought that Flowers had a good game as well, though I don't recall them throwing at him much - there were several plays that he either made the play in run support, or turned the RB back inside to the big boys, usually Mays. Mike Brown is a slower, dumber, undisciplined version of Bernard Pollard. I'm sure that Leggett is getting all the blame for the Austin TD's, but had Brown done his job, they would have been 15 yard gains instead of 60. Mike Vrabel shoudl stick to playing TE, because he's ing worthless as a LB. Another game giving up 500 yards of offense, 150 of it on the ground, and I'm sure someone, somewhere has said something to the effect of the "defense is getting better." Bullshit. The Cowboys were the gift that kept on giving, and we said "** you." I don't recall a game where the opposition did this much to give a game to the Chiefs. A bounty of gifts wrapped in nice paper and a bow, and we shunned it like it was socks and underwear from Great Aunt Gertrude. 13 penalties. 4 fumbles, two of which we recovered and started drives in/near the red zone. (Thanks for half out points, Dallas!) Austin dropped 2 TD passes, and there was a 3rd at our end of the stadium that was dropped, and I don't recall who the WR was. And the best gift of all: Starting a drive in OT from the 50 **ing yard line, and getting ONE YARD. Nothing like getting that bike you wanted for Christmas, then getting so excited you decided to take it for a spin before Dad installed the seat. Ouch. Someone tell Dorothy that "there's no place like home" is a crock of shit** At bare minimum, half the stadium was in blue, and personally I think we were outnumbered. Reminded me of the game in STL back in 2006 where we outnumbered Rams fans. Dallas fans were loader when thier team needed it that Chiefs fans were, crowd noise was even a factor on an offensive penalty we committed. Wait 'til Pittsburgh comes in, it'll be 75/25 Steelers fans. Greatest fans in the NFL, my ass. That's it from memory, I'll probably post additional thoughts as the TV broadcast sparks some more.
Posts: 60,758

10-12-2009, 10:20 AM	#31
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $94644	Good post OTW. I was at the game yesterday as well and agree with most of your post. My biggest complaint about Cassel is he holds the ball way too long but I couldn't tell if the WR's were getting open alot because it seemed someone was in his face the whole time. After the game I heard a crazy stat that he got hit around 35 times out of his 41 attempts. I am really surprised he is still standing today. On the defense side of the ball I kept yelling all game long not to blitz because every time they did they got smoked. They also left Legget on the island by himself which is horrible decision because he can't cover\tackle worth a shit. As far as the crowd\fans go I will have to disagree with you on this. The Chiefs now are tied with the Bucs for the worst losing record over a 2 year period yet 50,000 Chief fans showed up and this was the first time since probably the Colts playoff game where everyone was standing the entire game.
Posts: 67,121

10-12-2009, 10:35 AM	#32
TennisMenace Rookie Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Georgia Casino cash: $10004900	Allow me to make two observations. (First post. I have a very soft spot in my heart for the Chiefs because I believe they have one of, if not the GREATEST fans in America. 1. Cassel needs to throw it to Bowe even if he has to fight for the ball. Bowe is a stud and he will get it. 2. Cassel holds onto the ball too long. 3. Please say goodbye to LJ 4. Chiefs must begin right now to see what JCharles can do with more playing time. It is not easy to show your skills when you only get 4-5 touches per game. You need to get into a rhythm and see what the opponent is doing over time (I played college football.) 5. The Charles' naysayers perhaps are misguided here. First, I hear he is too small. He is 5'11" and about 200 pounds. There have been plenty of NFL runners with that build who survive on speed and stealth. Besides, see his college career. Secondly, I read all about his many fumbles. Well, he has only lost one this year, on a kickoff, and has lost two in his career. Tiki Barber lost a hundred, or so it seemed, yet the giants stuck with him and ultimately Coughlin showed him how to carry the ball. I have more to share, but let's chew on and discuss these points. Great to be here. Sorry if this comes across too arrogant; that's not the real me. You guys rock! TM
Posts: 8

10-12-2009, 10:44 AM	#33
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	if a reciever is open and the qb cant see it is he really open? kinda like if that tree in the forest falls and no one is there to hear it does it make a noise? It's nice to sit in a seat and second guess, i'm sure its ALOT different with 5 guys running free at you
Posts: 55,715

10-12-2009, 10:55 AM	#36
JD10367 Cheaterlover* Join Date: May 2009 Location: RI Casino cash: $10010716	Cassel may or may not be developing a case of Drew Bledsoeitis. This is a condition where, after being hit so many times and not having faith in your OL and skill players, you develop a.) happy feet, b.) lock onto a WR without seeing options, c.) hold onto the ball too long and get sacked, and/or d.) get skittish and throw the ball away too early. Having said that, Cassel is young enough and talented enough to work through it. One issue is the same one I see with my Patriots: shitting OCing and playcalling. Both Brady and Cassel suffered similar fates: when they were allowed to open things up and do what they do best, they did well, but when the shitty offensive calling got in the way the team sucked. 1st down, run for 1. 2nd down, run for 1. 3rd down, incomplete (since 3rd and long is an obvious passing down). Punt. NO team will look good doing that. Say what you want about him, but Cassel's not the problem on your team. Starting QB is low down on your list of worries. Frankly, if my Patriots had held onto him and let Brady come back slowly, the Pats would be 5-0 right now.
Posts: 12,916

10-12-2009, 10:59 AM	#38
DaneMcCloud Supporter Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Hollywood, CA Casino cash: $10053648	Excellent analysis, OTWP58! The I noticed immediately was that when Smith replaced Albert and Alleman replaced Goof, the running lanes opened up, Cassel appeared more confident and the offense put together a good drive. Why Goof returned to the game was beyond me. The bottom line for me is that Alleman is far superior to Goof and that the Chiefs need to get Wade Smith on the field, whether it's at center or right tackle. He's far too athletic to be sitting on the bench.
Posts: 88,960

10-12-2009, 12:12 PM	#42
Micjones Whose house? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $10005180	Cassel is definitely holding on to the ball too long in some situations. No question about that. To win he'll need to take more chances, but he will also need this Offensive Line to give him time to go through his reads. He's not turning the ball over so I suppose all isn't lost. __________________ It's like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong.
Posts: 15,344