Chiefs Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? - Page 35

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-20-2009, 11:17 PM

Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Loyalty? Fairness?

You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited.

On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs.

Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse.

It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory.

“When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns.

“When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch.

“When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium.

That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense.

It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray.

We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too.

You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates.

Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants.

Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat?

You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel.

Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands.

Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley?

What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach?

I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind.

Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver.

Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse.

I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.

Contrarian · 12-22-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedThat

I personally don't agree with how Haley calls a game, or how he manages and handles his team.

But I will say this, he's a rookie head coach, and was given a crappy roster from the start. Im not trying to stick up for the guy, all Im trying to say is, it would be hard for most coaches to thrive under those circumstances.

I absolutely agree with ya.
We had lost 10 games up to the Browns game. We played terrible in all areas last week. I don't understand how most of you view this scenario? Did you think we were going to be good? And if you knew we were going to be bad why are you saying you want a coaching change? When obviously every piece of the puzzle doesn't fit yet. It's just stupid.
A late hired GM, a late hired coach, late hired assistants, rookies that don't perform and lack talent, and veterens on their way out.

Fish · 12-22-2009, 03:57 PM

Well here's my Improvement List....

OLine improvement - The OLine actually has a little consistency at the moment. I didn't think they'd get much better after midseason, but they have. Slightly, but it's been enough to give the offense opportunities at least.

J. Charles - What a ****ing breath of fresh air after the LJ BS. Charles is quietly and persistently kicking ass since LJ pouted off to Cincy. Even when he's stuck with less than perfect run blocking, he's making things happen. And teams are noticing his big play ability. With LJ, I always expected 15-20yds tops from his best play of the game. With Charles, he can take any random snap to the house. His plays has done wonders for the rest of the offense(Other than Cassel...).

Succop - Mr. Irrelevant has proven he is not. Keep those kickoffs deep...

Hali - I include him only because I didn't think he'd contribute at all. But he is what he is. He's hit his talent ceiling, but despite that we can find uses for his skillset.

Dorsey - He's been great this season for what he's overcome. It's no coincidence that the game he's out, we let some punk nobody wear away all the grass at Arrowhead.

Aggressive 4th down calls - I know Haley has misused it numerous times, but I still love to see us leading the league in 4th down attempts. I love this mindset, and when used correctly I think this can make a real difference in keeping the offense unpredictable. With as little as we have to lose, why not...

Brandon Carr - I'm still not sold on Carr, but I have to say he has improved over the course of the season. He's got some Dale Carter "Big play or big mistake" moments still. But he might hang on in the league after all.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-22-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

So what positives do you have about the current team right now? You have beaten CP to death with your pessimistic attacks day after day.

**** off if you can't deal with a realistic opinion.

I said back in May 2008 that the Chiefs would be 2-14. I was correct.

I said in May 2009, they'd be 4-12. We're yet to find out if that was right or wrong.

The bottom line is that unlike you and a select few members, I am objective. I don't see "Unicorns and Rainbows" when I look at this roster.

I don't see a competent head coach who makes sound decisions and plays his best players.

I don't see a competent first time GM, who with more than 45 player acquisitions, has failed to bring any long-term stability to the roster at any position and have failed miserably to bring a playmaker at any position to the team.

If you believe otherwise, I'd like to see actual factual proof because I can back up each and every claim I've made.

Can you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

If you are such an objective expert, i would like to see the positive side of your analysis. Honestly, not trying to be a dick, i really do.

Currently, the only true positive aspect of this team is the 2008 draft. Herm was given control of the draft and for the first time in decades, a foundation was put in place.

It's a damn shame that Scott Pioli couldn't add a ****ing thing to this foundation.

Titty Meat · 12-22-2009, 04:05 PM

I'll go on record and say Haley should be back next year.

ToxSocks · 12-22-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

**** off if you can't deal with a realistic opinion.

I said back in May 2008 that the Chiefs would be 2-14. I was correct.

I said in May 2009, they'd be 4-12. We're yet to find out if that was right or wrong.

The bottom line is that unlike you and a select few members, I am objective. I don't see "Unicorns and Rainbows" when I look at this roster.

I don't see a competent head coach who makes sound decisions and plays his best players.

I don't see a competent first time GM, who with more than 45 player acquisitions, has failed to bring any long-term stability to the roster at any position and have failed miserably to bring a playmaker at any position to the team.

If you believe otherwise, I'd like to see actual factual proof because I can back up each and every claim I've made.

Can you?

Currently, the only true positive aspect of this team is the 2008 draft. Herm was given control of the draft and for the first time in decades, a foundation was put in place.

It's a damn shame that Scott Pioli couldn't add a ****ing thing to this foundation.

Lol. Dude, you're hilarious.

If you predicted a 4-12 team, then why are you mad, lol? All of those issues you listed are symptoms of a 4-12 team. But you saw that coming right? So, you expected, a well coached, talented, 4-12 team? Uhm, ok. If we had everything going your way we wouldn't have a 4-12 season.

And i am not objective? YOU are not objective. Like i said i can put together a nice list of everything that is wrong with this team in conjunction with things that are right. Yet, you can only put together a list of shit that is wrong, yet you're objective? Uhm...ok.

And only a select few members have nothing positive to say about the team. Please......I am in the same exact boat as most on this forum. Just because no one else wants to debate with your stubborn, know-it-all ass doesn't mean that i am alone in my thinking.

I don't wear rainbow colored glasses, i know what this team is. We all do. Just because I don't join you in berrating this forum with negativity doesn't mean i don't know and acknowledge the teams many shortcomings. You pulled that conclusion out of your ass. I've never said this team is great, i never said this team was good. I never said i agreed with Pioli's draft, his F/A signings or Haley's game management. Did I? Yet you want to keep pretending like i've said such things in an effort to try to deter the fact that you are a pessimist. Face it dude. You act like im the first person to call you that.

I'm just calling it how i see it.

But of course, you're the only one who sees a bad team right? Because you know it all, and no positive comment could ever be right. Everything sucks in Dane's world. Pioli should be fired and this entire roster should just go with him after 14 games, right Dane?

And im sure YOU KNOW who Pioli attempted to sign, because you have Pioli's phone tapped, right? You don't know whether or not Pioli attempted to sign good vets. How many good vets would want to come to KC? Is the city enticing...eh no. The team enticing...eh no. The coach...eh, no. So, without overspending in your first year as a GM, how do you propose landing big F/A's?

would you like me to put together a list of shit that is wrong with this team? Will i be more objective in your eyes if i did that? hmm? Make you feel better?

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-22-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The fact that Cassel would even tell a reporter that with a straight face, even if his coaches gave him such a stupid evaluation, just further illustrates that he's part of the problem.

There isn't a ****ing quarterback alive who could take that evaluation with a straight face if they had any pride or belief in a team concept.

That just screams "cover your ass".

Pitiful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Sure as shit, they dropped the lead-in's to those questions:

Nothing like censoring press conferences...

Pitiful II

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

I'll go on record and say Haley should be back next year.

ToxSocks · 12-22-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Pitiful.

Pitiful II

Nice PhotoShop

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-22-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Nice PhotoShop

I wish I could take credit, but no such luck.

ToxSocks · 12-22-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

I wish I could take credit, but no such luck.

Ok, well since it isn't yours, they should've fixed the boo boo under Sweeny Todd. lol

Mecca · 12-22-2009, 05:14 PM

Todd Haley needs 3 years to prove he is the worst coach in the NFL, we got rid of Herm and got worse, didn't think I'd be saying that.

**gblowfish** · 12-22-2009, 05:15 PM

I think he should be fired.
I told him so.
He did not agree.

Mecca · 12-22-2009, 05:17 PM

Well just remember George, it was all your fault just ask those WPI guys.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-22-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Lol. Dude, you're hilarious.

You're a moron.

I'm done responding to your bullshit little questions.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-22-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

I think he should be fired.
I told him so.
He did not agree.

Concur did not occur.

**gblowfish** · 12-22-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raised On Riots

Concur did not occur.

Haley says "No comment."

12-20-2009, 11:17 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-2997187	Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? By JASON WHITLOCK The Kansas City Star I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Loyalty? Fairness? You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited. On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs. Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse. It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory. “When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns. “When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch. “When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium. That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense. It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray. We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too. You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates. Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants. Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat? You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel. Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands. Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley? What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach? I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind. Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver. Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse. I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.
Posts: 43,454

12-22-2009, 03:57 PM	#512
Fish Ain't no relax! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $-1441081	Well here's my Improvement List.... OLine improvement - The OLine actually has a little consistency at the moment. I didn't think they'd get much better after midseason, but they have. Slightly, but it's been enough to give the offense opportunities at least. J. Charles - What a ****ing breath of fresh air after the LJ BS. Charles is quietly and persistently kicking ass since LJ pouted off to Cincy. Even when he's stuck with less than perfect run blocking, he's making things happen. And teams are noticing his big play ability. With LJ, I always expected 15-20yds tops from his best play of the game. With Charles, he can take any random snap to the house. His plays has done wonders for the rest of the offense(Other than Cassel...). Succop - Mr. Irrelevant has proven he is not. Keep those kickoffs deep... Hali - I include him only because I didn't think he'd contribute at all. But he is what he is. He's hit his talent ceiling, but despite that we can find uses for his skillset. Dorsey - He's been great this season for what he's overcome. It's no coincidence that the game he's out, we let some punk nobody wear away all the grass at Arrowhead. Aggressive 4th down calls - I know Haley has misused it numerous times, but I still love to see us leading the league in 4th down attempts. I love this mindset, and when used correctly I think this can make a real difference in keeping the offense unpredictable. With as little as we have to lose, why not... Brandon Carr - I'm still not sold on Carr, but I have to say he has improved over the course of the season. He's got some Dale Carter "Big play or big mistake" moments still. But he might hang on in the league after all. __________________
Posts: 48,873

12-22-2009, 04:05 PM	#514
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1182442	I'll go on record and say Haley should be back next year.
Posts: 78,148

12-22-2009, 05:14 PM	#520
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-712950	Todd Haley needs 3 years to prove he is the worst coach in the NFL, we got rid of Herm and got worse, didn't think I'd be saying that.
Posts: 115,380

12-22-2009, 05:15 PM	#521
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $16886178 VARSITY	I think he should be fired. I told him so. He did not agree.
Posts: 41,016

12-22-2009, 05:17 PM	#522
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-712950	Well just remember George, it was all your fault just ask those WPI guys.
Posts: 115,380