Chiefs Getting The Band Back Together - Page 6

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-06-2010, 07:08 PM

Exact words from The Doug Gottlieb Show about Pioli's proclivity for hiring guys from "The Tree".

It's also a tried and true method in the NFL over the last couple of decades. Let's take a look at how getting the band back together worked out.

Walsh, Bill. Almost single-handedly built the 49er Dynasty. Was lured back to SF from 1999-2001 as GM. The team experienced moderate success over this time, going 12-4 in 2001, but not winning a playoff game during his tenure.

Vermeil, Dick. Tried to rebuild the '99 Rams with the 2001-2005 Chiefs. Had 2/5 winning seasons and a winning record overall, but never won a playoff game.

Holmgren, Mike. Assumed full control of the Seahawks after leaving GB. Even traded for his old backup QB in the process. Although the team achieved a SB berth, this was after Holmgren had been stripped of his GM duties in 2002, and Bob Ferguson took over.

Policy, Carmen. Former "Executive of the Year" from SF was lured to rebuild the Cleveland Browns. Installed former SF Buddy Dwight Clark as GM. Crashed and burned like the ****ing Hindenburg.

Johnson, Jimmy. The man who built the 90's Cowboys was charged with building the late 90's Dolphins into something Shula couldn't for the last 25 years--a SB champion. Johnson brought in his old assistants towards the end (Wannstedt) but could never match the success he had in Dallas. Ended his tenure with a 62 point ass raping from the Jags.

**AustinChief** · 01-07-2010, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Well, my preferred D is a 4-3, but if you had to get a 3-4, the best 3-4 DL coach is John Mitchell, but he's been in Pittsburgh since Cowher was hired.

ok not preferred but of the Phillips 3-4 guys... (I actually really do like the Phillips 3-4 for it's aggression and flexibility... PLUS you aren't tied to a fatass NT)

I am trying to think of someone who isn't currently coaching d-line at the NFL level... which pretty much leaves us with former d-linemen or college coaches... unless there is an asst d-line coach I'm unaware of.

TigerPig · 01-07-2010, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

ok not preferred but of the Phillips 3-4 guys... (I actually really do like the Phillips 3-4 for it's aggression and flexibility... PLUS you aren't tied to a fatass NT)

I am trying to think of someone who isn't currently coaching d-line at the NFL level... which pretty much leaves us with former d-linemen or college coaches... unless there is an asst d-line coach I'm unaware of.

Maybe this is where people think we should take one of those D-Line coaches and make them our coordinator???

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-07-2010, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerPig

But since we didn't and we have the GM we do now, what do you propose? Is the team a total wash now cause we don't have a GM from a mid-market team?

And you think Kraft and Belichick are responsible solely for the front office success in New England, but you don't feel the same about the Rooneys and Cowher? I'm inclined to believe the success of the Steelers is from having a few key people as well. All of the others are plug-and-play.

New England has great ownership, Belichick and Tom Brady.

We have none of those.

Indianapolis has great ownership, a great front office (who built 3 contenders) and Peyton Manning.

Pittsburgh has great ownership, Polamalu, Hampton, and Roethlisberger.

Our problem is that we have no organizational philosophy aside from "Just do exactly what happened in New England".

Well, no two scenarios are exactly the same.

The reason why a guy like Mike Tomlin is a good coach is b/c he's a Tampa 2 guy but he realizes his talent works best in a 3-4, so he doesnt' **** with it. Pittsburgh also drafts to the strength of the draft (which is why they drafted multiple OL in the mid-late rounds last year, and got a guy like Mike Wallace and a better 5 tech at 32 than we did at 3)

Titty Meat · 01-07-2010, 02:43 AM

Why isn't Clark Hunt a great owner?

Mecca · 01-07-2010, 02:45 AM

It just blows my mind that you can point out several draft built cap savvy teams, Colts, Ravens, Eagles, Packers, Pittsburgh..

And we hire people from the franchise that tripped assbackwards into it's QB and masks it's draft failures by using it's big market cash.

One of those teams is not like the others, one of those teams does not have a repeatable strategy.

Hammock Parties · 01-07-2010, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

Why isn't Clark Hunt a great owner?

Because he hasn't proven jack yet. Other than the fact that he can be an executor of change.

Titty Meat · 01-07-2010, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Because he hasn't proven jack yet. Other than the fact that he can be an executor of change.

My opinon he's a cheap ****er.

Mecca · 01-07-2010, 02:48 AM

Clark Hunt hired the biggest name GM on the market, that's a bit concerning to me many times the biggest name guy out there isn't the best choice.

TigerPig · 01-07-2010, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

New England has great ownership, Belichick and Tom Brady.

We have none of those.

Indianapolis has great ownership, a great front office (who built 3 contenders) and Peyton Manning.

Pittsburgh has great ownership, Polamalu, Hampton, and Roethlisberger.

Our problem is that we have no organizational philosophy aside from "Just do exactly what happened in New England".

Well, no two scenarios are exactly the same.

The reason why a guy like Mike Tomlin is a good coach is b/c he's a Tampa 2 guy but he realizes his talent works best in a 3-4, so he doesnt' **** with it. Pittsburgh also drafts to the strength of the draft (which is why they drafted multiple OL in the mid-late rounds last year, and got a guy like Mike Wallace and a better 5 tech at 32 than we did at 3)

Okay, well if our ownership sucks, I don't know what you want. What is your solution other than cheering for Pittsburgh? These people are already taken, and the ones you're saying work in these organizations IMO are the same style of people we've taken from NE. With both groups its whether or not this person has anything to do with the success of the team.

I don't see any difference between doing what we're doing now, and doing what you're proposing other than basing it around different teams. The people are different, but its not like there's any less of a risk either way. I don't see a difference in risk hiring Weis than anyone in the Steeler organization that they are actually willing to part with. And a difference in talent is something neither you nor I can accurately measure, nor anyone else can. So that's a moot point.

Hammock Parties · 01-07-2010, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

My opinon he's a cheap ****er.

I don't know about this. It would have been easy for him to mandate keeping Thigpen because Cassel was "too expensive."

If Clark was as cheap as you think there were a lot cheaper options than making Pioli the highest-paid GM in football.

TigerPig · 01-07-2010, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Clark Hunt hired the biggest name GM on the market, that's a bit concerning to me many times the biggest name guy out there isn't the best choice.

Its like the draft. A lot of times the biggest name isn't the best choice. But at the same time everything you've been told about the person and everything you've seen tells you its the right move.

Titty Meat · 01-07-2010, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

I don't know about this. It would have been easy for him to mandate keeping Thigpen because Cassel was "too expensive."

If Clark was as cheap as you think there were a lot cheaper options than making Pioli the highest-paid GM in football.

It took him forever to hire a GM. He was probably trying to squeeze every penny out of Pioli.

Mecca · 01-07-2010, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TigerPig

Okay, well if our ownership sucks, I don't know what you want. What is your solution other than cheering for Pittsburgh? These people are already taken, and the ones you're saying work in these organizations IMO are the same style of people we've taken from NE. With both groups its whether or not this person has anything to do with the success of the team.

I don't see any difference between doing what we're doing now, and doing what you're proposing other than basing it around different teams. The people are different, but its not like there's any less of a risk either way. I don't see a difference in hiring Weis than anyone in the Steeler organization that they are actually willing to part with. And a difference in talent is something neither you nor I can accurately measure, nor anyone else can. So that's a moot point.

You should look at my post about what teams have a repeatable strategy and what team doesn't.

Titty Meat · 01-07-2010, 02:50 AM

And then making Haley keep Gailey? Wtf?

Hammock Parties · 01-07-2010, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

It took him forever to hire a GM. He was probably trying to squeeze every penny out of Pioli.

I think he was performing his due diligence.

01-06-2010, 07:08 PM
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	Getting The Band Back Together Exact words from The Doug Gottlieb Show about Pioli's proclivity for hiring guys from "The Tree". It's also a tried and true method in the NFL over the last couple of decades. Let's take a look at how getting the band back together worked out. Walsh, Bill. Almost single-handedly built the 49er Dynasty. Was lured back to SF from 1999-2001 as GM. The team experienced moderate success over this time, going 12-4 in 2001, but not winning a playoff game during his tenure. Vermeil, Dick. Tried to rebuild the '99 Rams with the 2001-2005 Chiefs. Had 2/5 winning seasons and a winning record overall, but never won a playoff game. Holmgren, Mike. Assumed full control of the Seahawks after leaving GB. Even traded for his old backup QB in the process. Although the team achieved a SB berth, this was after Holmgren had been stripped of his GM duties in 2002, and Bob Ferguson took over. Policy, Carmen. Former "Executive of the Year" from SF was lured to rebuild the Cleveland Browns. Installed former SF Buddy Dwight Clark as GM. Crashed and burned like the ****ing Hindenburg. Johnson, Jimmy. The man who built the 90's Cowboys was charged with building the late 90's Dolphins into something Shula couldn't for the last 25 years--a SB champion. Johnson brought in his old assistants towards the end (Wannstedt) but could never match the success he had in Dallas. Ended his tenure with a 62 point ass raping from the Jags.
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01-07-2010, 02:43 AM	#79
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1222442	Why isn't Clark Hunt a great owner?
Posts: 78,161

01-07-2010, 02:45 AM	#80
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-742950	It just blows my mind that you can point out several draft built cap savvy teams, Colts, Ravens, Eagles, Packers, Pittsburgh.. And we hire people from the franchise that tripped assbackwards into it's QB and masks it's draft failures by using it's big market cash. One of those teams is not like the others, one of those teams does not have a repeatable strategy.
Posts: 115,387

01-07-2010, 02:48 AM	#83
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-742950	Clark Hunt hired the biggest name GM on the market, that's a bit concerning to me many times the biggest name guy out there isn't the best choice.
Posts: 115,387

01-07-2010, 02:50 AM	#89
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1222442	And then making Haley keep Gailey? Wtf?
Posts: 78,161