If Berry is there and we pass

['Hamas' Jenkins]

For either

A) Okung
B) McClain
C) B5TA
D) Joe Haden
E) Dez White
F) Sam Bradford (but not Clausen)
G) Dan Williams (think of picking a guy 15 spots above where he was projected)

How does that affect your view of this regime, if at all?

[mylittlepony]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

So is everyone that believes Berry is the only choice here trying to tell me there won't be 1 player drafted after Berry that goes on to have a better career?

Trent Green is a perfect example of a player having a great career despite being a great prospect/player. To have a great Career you need the right circumstances. Look at Randy Moss in Oakland compared to the Patriots. Glenn Dorsey was a top 5 pick and the year later he is playing 3-4 DE. Was he a worse pick because of it based on what we knew then?

Unless you can see the future you can only guess how good of a player this could be. Berry looks pretty darn good that's why everyone wants him.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Originally Posted by ILChief

How great would it be if we took Okung and the dude turns out to be a Willie Roaf type LT? Watching the CP experts have to eat crow would be great.

Yea cuz you know, every year theres a tackle that ends up having a Roaf like career

[Dark Horse]

Nothing at all affects me anymore I've been a Chiefs fan for 40 years.

[RustShack]

The people who give the "someone later could end up being better" are just flat our reeruned. Thats like saying we should think about drafting a 7th round prospect first because well he could end up being better. You draft players who have the talent and a better chance of being better. Sure Okung could end up being good in the right situation, but hes physically not worth the pick like someone like Berry is.

[Sam Hall]

It won't change my view because of what we should have learned last year: The draft board of an NFL general manager is different than the draft board of the average NFL fan.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

This is the correct answer. I think Berry is a darn good player but I want a playmaker period end of story don't care what their draft rating is or what position they play. As far as positional value safety is only a couple of notches above center. They pull a major playmaker and they have my support whoever it is.

I'm getting to the point I want them to pass on Berry because of this sycophancy from the "experts" on Chiefsplanet.

I used to think that but watching the Steelers without Polamolu or the Colts without Bob Sanders or the Ravens without Ed Reed has changed my mind. A great safety can be the glue that holds a defense together specially in todays pass happy league.

[Saccopoo]

...then they found something in his game that indicates that he'll have trouble transitioning to the next level. They guy doesn't have the best fundamentals (shoulder pad tackles virtually everytime), has a potential question mark about a lingering shoulder situation, and his numbers in his junior year took a nose dive - at least in comparison to his freshman and sophomore stats. (And yes, I understand that he played up this season rather than being a ball hawk, but his tackle numbers were the same, his sacks went to zero and his interceptions were cut substantially.) He doesn't possess ideal size, especially for the next level. He could be Ed Reed based on his athleticism and passion for the game. He could be Bob Sanders - passion for the game, but because of the size, he can't stay healthy and on the field. He could be just another guy that ends up at the nickle if he doesn't learn to wrap up or can't handle the size of modern NFL tight ends and the like.

He's a stud and has potential, but it's not like he's a slam dunk.

Besides, he's a safety. He won't be put on an island, and is a support position player for the run and pass. Last line of defense, but he's not the first line of defense. People bitch about taking offensive linemen in the first round, but yet are okay with a safety in the top five? That position defines the concept of "you can get quality players for that position later in the draft."

[RustShack]

The fact is Safeties as good as Berry are never in the draft. There are OT's as good as Okung(and actually better) every single year.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

...then they found something in his game that indicates that he'll have trouble transitioning to the next level. They guy doesn't have the best fundamentals (shoulder pad tackles virtually everytime), has a potential question mark about a lingering shoulder situation, and his numbers in his junior year took a nose dive - at least in comparison to his freshman and sophomore stats. (And yes, I understand that he played up this season rather than being a ball hawk, but his tackle numbers were the same, his sacks went to zero and his interceptions were cut substantially.) He doesn't possess ideal size, especially for the next level. He could be Ed Reed based on his athleticism and passion for the game. He could be Bob Sanders - passion for the game, but because of the size, he can't stay healthy and on the field. He could be just another guy that ends up at the nickle if he doesn't learn to wrap up or can't handle the size of modern NFL tight ends and the like.

He's a stud and has potential, but it's not like he's a slam dunk.

Besides, he's a safety. He won't be put on an island, and is a support position player for the run and pass. Last line of defense, but he's not the first line of defense. People bitch about taking offensive linemen in the first round, but yet are okay with a safety in the top five? That position defines the concept of "you can get quality players for that position later in the draft."

Berry is a once-in-ten-years type prospect at his position.

There's a Russell Okung every damn year in this draft. Okung is nothing spectacular or special. I'd say grab the playmaker.

[RustShack]

I say we build the OL back up and grab a TE while neglecting the defense. Thats a proven way to win Championships and Playoff games. I mean why draft elite talent when you can just draft someone you can draft every year?

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by RustShack

The people who give the "someone later could end up being better" are just flat our reeruned. Thats like saying we should think about drafting a 7th round prospect first because well he could end up being better. You draft players who have the talent and a better chance of being better. Sure Okung could end up being good in the right situation, but hes physically not worth the pick like someone like Berry is.

So are you going to answer the question? I tell what what I'll just keep it to the first 20 picks. Will someone in the top 20 drafted after Berry have a better NFL career? Don't give me the crock of shit that it matters how good the team is. Jared Allen and Tony Gonzalez both still shined on a sorry ass Chiefs team. A good player looks like a good player on any team.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by SNR

Berry is a once-in-ten-years type prospect at his position.

There's a Russell Okung every damn year in this draft. Okung is nothing spectacular or special. I'd say grab the playmaker.

What's up with this strawman of people wanting Okung? I think I've seen like 1 guy on here lobby for the pick.

[RustShack]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

So are you going to answer the question? I tell what what I'll just keep it to the first 20 picks. Will someone in the top 20 drafted after Berry have a better NFL career? Don't give me the crock of shit that it matters how good the team is. Jared Allen and Tony Gonzalez both still shined on a sorry ass Chiefs team. A good player looks like a good player on any team.

Yeah players drafted after Berry will be better. But if those same players went to a bad situation like Berry they would be worse.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sam Hall

It won't change my view because of what we should have learned last year: The draft board of an NFL general manager is different than the draft board of the average NFL fan.

And neither is really any better then other. Most years the 11-15 group is as good if not better then 1-5. I know it pisses off all the draft guru's that think there is significant difference between any of the top 20 guys in the draft and a guy they have ranked at 5 is twice the player a guy rated at #20 is, but that's just not the case as history shows us that.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=223331

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Yeah players drafted after Berry will be better. But if those same players went to a bad situation like Berry they would be worse.

You just don't get it do you? Good players are still good on bad teams. Calvin Johnson still puts up numbers on a shit team, Jared Allen still gets 15 sacks with the Chiefs. You are making excuses already for the kid and you are assuming the team he plays for will remain picking in the top 10. 4 years ago the Saints were picking #2, 2 years ago the Falcons and Dolphins picked in top 5 and made the playoffs.