Pioli already knows who he's going to draft.

[googlegoogle]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=115&f=1837&t=5669684

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Last offseason was the worst we have had as a team in 20 years.

Argue that.

Why are we constantly going back to Carl Peterson drafts?

Pioli sucked last year. Carl sucked for the better part of 20 years.

Honestly, this is like the guy who has one leg arguing with the guy with one arm.

[DeezNutz]

Carl needed to be fired after the 2000 season.

The early part of his tenure showed much promise, but the last 9 years were absolutely dismal and punctuated all of his failings.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And yes, I think the 2002 draft very closely parallels the 2009 draft--especially given that we TRADED UP to take an absolute bust. So if your argument is that one F season will make you dislike a person more than 15 straight D seasons, then I think you're being just a little short-sighted.

And yes, Peterson has had much worse offseasons. 2004 was the worst of all time. How about the Chiefs going 13-3, then the Chiefs decide to fire Greg Robinson for Gunther Cunningham, trade down in the draft to take Junior Siavii, follow that up with Kris Wilson, Keyaran Fox, Samie Parker, Jared Allen (okay, one hit), Jeris McIntyre, and Kevin Sampson. In the meantime, they sat on their hands and even took a vacation in the opening weeks of free agency.

C'mon, Boss. Pioli has been bad... so far. But to compare him to Carl Peterson after one season is slightly ridiculous. You're better than that.

why is it ridiculous?

I find it funny that nobody responded with things they liked about what Pioli did, only slamming me for suggesting that Pioli did an equally horrid job in his first year.

Overall, I cant remember a offseason that was across the board as bad as 2009.

Can you?

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

That's your criteria for a good draft? That the guy is in the green room prepping for a television appearance?

And that's the guy who you are attempting to defend? Yeesh.

LOL

I love how dishonest you can be to try to win a conversation.

The green room is the group of consensus top ten players from NFL scouts. They are the players that are considered the cream of the crop in that respective draft and Tyson was at home eating Cheerios.

If that isnt a microcosm of how bad the pick is, I dont know what is.

Spin it as unimportant as much as you like, you will be alone.

Go whack off to some Okung and Jackson videos.

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Fair enough I was just curious because you said that isn't what you meant which in all honesty it is what you meant. And if you think CP didn't have worse drafts then you have bad memory.

2002 Draft

2001 Draft

What you also fail to mention was what we got for the missing spots and the production we got from those guys. Whenever you trade picks for vets, you lose years buy gain a good player.

Trent Greeen was the most productive NFL QB outside of Manning for 01-05 and it cost us a 2 and 3 in the 01 and 02 drafts.

I dont like trading picks for coaches, but giving up a first for a HOF level coach and a NFL icon that had taken every single team he ever coached to its respective championship game in college and the NFL wasnt as bad as some other moves.

You have to account for what we got from the picks we traded and adjust how effective that draft was for us.

Originally Posted by dirk digler

You really need to go back and look at the last 10 years of Carl drafting. By far his best draft was his very last one the others are an abortion. This isn't any kind of surprise. But I agree with you CP had a better first draft pick than Pioli no question about it. DT is still my all time favorite Chief.

And I am not saying that Pioli's first draft was a success it is to early to tell but it sure isn't as bad as the 3 that I posted right now. Maybe 5 years from now it will be.

when you take into consideration what we got for the missing picks, none of those drafts were as bad. Vermiel was a vet coach and didnt care to develop players from scratch, trding for him was a statement that "we are gonna try to win one for Lamar"

it didnt work out, but at least we tried. The Jackson pick signified that we werent gonna try.

I think Magee will be a better player and we could have had him and Orakpo in the first.

We would be absolutely in love with Brian by now.

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Is BossChief Saccopoo's dupe?

**** you

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Here's the problem - all 3 of those drafts will turn out better than last season's.

The Sims draft sucks because of Sims, he was a lazy jackass, but he was also the consensus pick at the time. I have a hard time faulting Peterson because NOBODY had Sims being that bad. Fujita is a better player than anyone that will come from the 2009 draft.

2001 is a completely lost draft, but IIRC, we gave up our 1st and 2nd pick in that draft for Vermiel and Green. Ultimately, I'd have preferred take Brees with the first but Vermiel wanted his guy and the trades weren't pure busts; they did make the Chiefs an enjoyable team again.

2000 is a defensible draft - Morris was going to be a good player but blew out his knee; shit happens. Wesley was a better player for longer than anyone we'll get from 2009 and Hall was an absolute difference maker.


Seriously, don't underestimate how stunningly horrible Scott Pioli was at every facet of his job last offseason. Carl Peterson never had an offseason as bad as the one Pioli just put out there as his first impression. From assembling a roster to assembling a coaching staff, one would be hard pressed to come up with a more epic fail than the one put forward by Pioli.

We dont agree often, but in this case we do 100%

take a picture.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Why are we constantly going back to Carl Peterson drafts?

Pioli sucked last year. Carl sucked for the better part of 20 years.

Honestly, this is like the guy who has one leg arguing with the guy with one arm.

I am not talking about just the draft. I said offseason for a reason.

I listed all the things I felt were mistakes earlier in this thread and will always feel that way.

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Carl needed to be fired after the 2000 season.

The early part of his tenure showed much promise, but the last 9 years were absolutely dismal and punctuated all of his failings.

Well done and agree 100%

i wonder where we would be if we had done so?

I quarantee woe would have drafted a qb in the first by now.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BossChief

I am not talking about just the draft. I said offseason for a reason.

I listed all the things I felt were mistakes earlier in this thread and will always feel that way.

I don't think anybody's disputing that. I'm certainly not. I just disagree that one offseason makes a person. Yeah, if this year's offseason is as bad as the last, then shit.... But I just don't see any comparison between a guy who ****ed up one offseason with less resources to a guy who continually messed up for 15 straight years.

Like I said, don't dispute that 2009 was a mess. But the Pioli and CP comparison doesn't work. That doesn't, of course, give Pioli any excuse to **** up in 2010. I get that.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Carl needed to be fired after the 2000 season.

The early part of his tenure showed much promise, but the last 9 years were absolutely dismal and punctuated all of his failings.

As far as I was concerned, Carl needed to be fired the minute he hired Marty.

I would have been fine with firing Pioli the minute he traded for Cassel.

Of course, I wasn't on the hire Pioli bandwagon.

[BossChief]

Here is my original post that started this off:

Originally Posted by BossChief

So far, my dislikes for the new regime are outnumbering my dislikes from the previous one.

That can definitely change, but so far my hope is dwindeling.

I know its early and I may be alone on this one, but I think the job Muir did in the second half of the year was admirable and that we will do a good job of developing talent under him.

This is an extremely good coaching staff we have in place, if they are given the players they will succeed.

I clearly didnt say he was doomed to future futility or anything, just that it was a horrible start.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't think anybody's disputing that. I'm certainly not. I just disagree that one offseason makes a person. Yeah, if this year's offseason is as bad as the last, then shit.... But I just don't see any comparison between a guy who ****ed up one offseason with less resources to a guy who continually messed up for 15 straight years.

Like I said, don't dispute that 2009 was a mess. But the Pioli and CP comparison doesn't work. That doesn't, of course, give Pioli any excuse to **** up in 2010. I get that.

see above post that started this discussion.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Here is my original post that started this off:

I clearly didnt say he was doomed to future futility or anything, just that it was a horrible start.

No, you said that

"my dislikes for the new regime are outnumbering my dislikes from the previous one."

After a single, transition period draft by Pioli, you are preferring 20 years of substandard quality at best drafting by Peterson.

That's a magnificent take based on historical draft analysis and projected draft potentials.

Michael Phelps doesn't backstroke as fast as you do.

[BossChief]

Here is my still unaltered original post in this thread you are trying to pull an exert from while leaving out critical parts you dishonest prick

Originally Posted by BossChief

So far, my dislikes for the new regime are outnumbering my dislikes from the previous one.

That can definitely change, but so far my hope is dwindeling.

I know its early and I may be alone on this one, but I think the job Muir did in the second half of the year was admirable and that we will do a good job of developing talent under him.

This is an extremely good coaching staff we have in place, if they are given the players they will succeed.

Pretty cut and dry isnt it? Its the first post of mine in this thread that got this thizang started.

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

No, you said that

After a single, transition period draft by Pioli, you are preferring 20 years of substandard quality at best drafting by Peterson.

That's a magnificent take based on historical draft analysis and projected draft potentials.

Michael Phelps doesn't backstroke as fast as you do.

Can you ****ing read?

How the **** am I a backstroker?

just please.

[BigChiefFan]

40 times have some merit, but after the combine it NEVER takes place again. I put some stock into the combine, but it really should just back up what the scouts should have already known. I consider it an official guidelines of their overall measurables, but no way would I consider the combine as the best way to evaluate players.


One word:measurables.