what's with all the Orton isn't the answer talk?

[wutamess]

Lets not get too confused about who Trent Green is here... his first season here... he didn't have the arm strength and was labeled TrINT by almost everyone. Years following priest Holmes bailed his ass out by taking his dumpoffs to the house. Trent has NEVER been an all on his shoulders QB as he was aided by an excellent O-Line and above avg surrounding cast. He went 20 yards DOWN FIELD unless it was up the seam to Gonzo and maybe a bomb to EK. His 4000/year numbers were inflated by YAC #'s. Not by actually going down the field.

YAC per reception - 2002 season
Trent Green 6.33
Rich Gannon 5.65
Mark Brunell 5.45
Joey Harrington 5.41

% of passing yards AFTER the catch!
Tom Brady 52.66
Joey Harrington 50.74
Rich Gannon 50.35
Trent Green 49.24

Here are the YAC stats for receivers
1 Priest Holmes KC 774
2 Charlie Garner Oak 769
3 Terrell Owens SF 599

For Green

15.1% of attempts were behind LOS

Read more: http://forums.kffl.com/threads/12959...#ixzz1hBkQrGgl

What might be of particular interest to Chiefs fans reading the article is a perceived slight of former two-time Pro Bowl and Super Bowl champion quarterback Trent Green, both by Murphy and Gonzalez.

"The numbers the tight end (Gonzalez) put up in Kansas City, year after year, are all the more impressive considering that he never worked with a topflight quarterback," says Murphy.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by wutamess

Lets not get too confused about who Trent Green is here... his first season here... he didn't have the amr strength and was labled TrINT by almost everyone. Years following priest Holmes bailed his ass out by taking his dumpoffs to the house. Trent has NEVER been an all on his shoulders QB as he was aided by an excellent O-Line and above avg surrounding cast. He went 20 yards DOWN FIELD unless it was up the seam to Gonzo and maybe a bomb to EK. His 4000/year numbers were inflated by YAC #'s. Not by actually going down the field.

YAC per reception - 2002 season
Trent Green 6.33
Rich Gannon 5.65
Mark Brunell 5.45
Joey Harrington 5.41

Here's another one for you - % of passing yards AFTER the catch!

Tom Brady 52.66
Joey Harrington 50.74
Rich Gannon 50.35
Trent Green 49.24

Here are the YAC stats for receivers - I don't even have to do the math for you to see that Marvin has very very very low YAC.

1 Priest Holmes KC 774
2 Charlie Garner Oak 769
3 Terrell Owens SF 599

That sounds a lot like Cassel in New England.

[wutamess]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

That sounds a lot like Cassel in New England.

THIS! I've said it form day 1.
Although... Cassle STILL led the league in sacks that year.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by wutamess

THIS! I've said it form day 1.
Although... Cassle STILL led the league in sacks that year.

Not sure what you're getting at.

YAC, in large part, is a product of the QB delivering the ball accurately and on time.

In New England, McDumbass kept it as simple as he could for Cassel, and essentially ran a college spread in order to maximize Cassel's production.

When it gets more complicated than that, Cassel can not deliver the ball accurately and on time.

As for Orton, while he can do this in a more complicated offense, he absolutely has to have everything working for him to be effective.

If things start to break down, he is terrible.

I want a QB that can carry his team when things break down.

I don't want a QB that has to be carried, and Orton is one that has to be carried.

[Denny]

Originally Posted by milkman

Not sure what you're getting at.

YAC, in large part, is a product of the QB delivering the ball accurately and on time.

In New England, McDumbass kept it as simple as he could for Cassel, and essentially ran a college spread in order to maximize Cassel's production.

When it gets more complicated than that, Cassel can not deliver the ball accurately and on time.

As for Orton, while he can do this in a more complicated offense, he absolutely has to have everything working for him to be effective.

If things start to break down, he is terrible.

I want a QB that can carry his team when things break down.

I don't want a QB that has to be carried, and Orton is one that has to be carried.

Orton doesn't need EVERYTHING else working to be effective. But he does need SOMETHING else working.

In this era a free agency and salary caps, teams can no longer build dynastic teams that are strong EVERYWHERE. So they have to pick and choose where they focus their strengths. Passing Offense, Running Offense, Special Teams, or Defense. Teams need to have it working in at least TWO of those areas to be successful. No NFL QB is going to get very far nowadays without some help from one of those other areas.

Give Orton a team that's decent in any one of those areas and he can run a passing Offense well enough for a winning team. Last weekend, I saw a Chiefs team that was executing well on Defense and running the ball well. That allowed the passing game some room to work and the result was a win over the unbeaten defending SB Champs...

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Denny

Give Orton a team that's decent in any one of those areas and he can run a passing Offense well enough for a winning team.

"well enough for a winning team". Great! Chiefs fans, don't ever change.

[Denny]

Originally Posted by Brock

"well enough for a winning team". Great! Chiefs fans, don't ever change.

Why do fans always expect their teams to magically transform from a dumpster fire into world-beating Super Bowl Champs by simply drafting some flashy college QB?

Football is very much a TEAM sport. It takes more than a single player to win.

At any given time there's probably 3-4 QBs in the NFL capable of transforming a team - see Indy with and without Peyton Manning. That leaves 28 teams without such a transforming player - and virtually no chance of acquiring one. Yet the teams without those elite QBs still manage to win. See the 49ers this year.

So, do you keep beating your head against the wall wishing the QB-fairy would finally visit your team, or do you go with the best QB available and build the best team that you can?

I don't think that KC's problem has been the lack of an elite QB. It's been a lack of commitment in building a great team overall.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by wutamess

Years following priest Holmes bailed his ass out by taking his dumpoffs to the house.

What a freaking joke.

Priest Holmes had 187 yards receiving in 2004 and Trent still passed for 4,600 yards.

There is no evidence that supports this asinine Orton > Green theory.

[wutamess]

Originally Posted by Omega

What a freaking joke.

Priest Holmes had 187 yards receiving in 2004 and Trent still passed for 4,600 yards.

There is no evidence that supports this asinine Orton > Green theory.

RB's still accounted for almost 1000 of those yards... Whether it was Priest, Johnson, Blaylock or T. Rich... point still valid.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by wutamess

RB's still accounted for almost 1000 of those yards... Whether it was Priest, Johnson, Blaylock or T. Rich... point still valid.

Running backs accounted for 829 of Green's 4,591 yards that year. (18 percent)

That same year Manning's RBs accounted for 11 percent of his yardage.

Culpepper's RBs - 22.7 percent

Favre's RBs - 20.1 percent

Those are the top 4 passing QBs that year.

So your point that Green was only throwing for a lot of yards because of running backs is flat out bullshit. Unless you want to tell us that 2004 Brett Favre was overrated, too.