Chiefs Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation - Page 15

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 11:24 AM

Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from.

One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team."

Let me make this clear: I do not disagree.

However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse.

And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple:

The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation.

I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought.

Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization.

And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors.

Two. Out of forty-five.

That's a whopping 4% success rate.

I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players.

Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's.

Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's.

And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC.

With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players.

Let the excuses flow like fine wine.

Discus.

This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.

philfree · 12-16-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I'm betting that Pioli had access to...the tape from last year's games.

This is an amazing thing.

Pioli did jack ****ing shit. He didn't improve the club in any single meaningful way, aside from the kicker. In fact, one can make a strong case that we're worse off now b/c of the asinine contract he gave to Cassel.

And many believe this approach was and is understandable.

I don't think Cassel's contract matters and if Pioli wants to move on it won't be cumbersome. At the end of 2010 that contract won't make a difference. As far as watching the tape that's fine but to truely know what he had he chose to see it first hand. It's more painful this way no doubt but to build something properly you have to start at the beginning. Things may appear or even be worse off for a period of time. I'm not saying Pioli isn't beyond reproach but I believe I see what his start plan was so I'm going to give it time and I hope it starts to bare fruit next year.

PhilFree

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 01:07 PM

I think the idea of asking a team that had 50 mill in cap room and a top 5 pick to bring in one foundation player is not asking to much yet they couldn't even do that.

**DeezNutz** · 12-16-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I think it has helped. It might not show up in the win column yet but it could payoff down the road.

There is no question we need a shitload more talent

Based on what?

beach tribe · 12-16-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Well I see these vet leaders have really made a difference.

They bombed.

As far as Zack Thomas, and his 1 mil.

Isn't the vet min. $900,000?

I could be wrong.

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I don't think Cassel's contract matters and if Pioli wants to move on it won't be cumbersome. At the end of 2010 that contract won't make a difference. As far as watching the tape that's fine but to truely know what he had he chose to see it first hand. It's more painful this way no doubt but to build something properly you have to start at the beginning. Things may appear or even be worse off for a period of time. I'm not saying Pioli isn't beyond reproach but I believe I see what his start plan was so I'm going to give it time and I hope it starts to bare fruit next year.

PhilFree

It's not the contract, it's that, that was his first big move as a GM, to say Cassel was his guy his franchise QB. GM's have ego's you really think he's going to admit he ****ed that up after 2 years?

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Based on what?

That he wants to believe it did, that's about it.

**DeezNutz** · 12-16-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I don't think Cassel's contract matters and if Pioli wants to move on it won't be cumbersome. At the end of 2010 that contract won't make a difference. As far as watching the tape that's fine but to truely know what he had he chose to see it first hand. It's more painful this way no doubt but to build something properly you have to start at the beginning. Things may appear or even be worse off for a period of time. I'm not saying Pioli isn't beyond reproach but I believe I see what his start plan was so I'm going to give it time and I hope it starts to bare fruit next year.

PhilFree

Hey, we don't agree and I respect that. Still, I stand by my comment: if Pioli needed one full season to evaluate the existing talent on this team, he is the most incompetent GM in the league.

beach tribe · 12-16-2009, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

I don't think Cassel's contract matters and if Pioli wants to move on it won't be cumbersome. At the end of 2010 that contract won't make a difference. As far as watching the tape that's fine but to truely know what he had he chose to see it first hand. It's more painful this way no doubt but to build something properly you have to start at the beginning. Things may appear or even be worse off for a period of time. I'm not saying Pioli isn't beyond reproach but I believe I see what his start plan was so I'm going to give it time and I hope it starts to bare fruit next year.

PhilFree

Exactly.

If talent evaluation could be done by watching tape, why the hell do GMs show up at schools to watch players, work players out, or even attend the combine? There's plenty of "tape" to keep them from having to do that.

Could one of you please answer this question for me?

Chiefnj2 · 12-16-2009, 01:12 PM

I'm not excusing his horrible draft and he didn't begin to build the Chiefs the way I would have, but here is what Pioli said the day he was hired:

Q: How do you build a team, through the draft or free agency or a combination?
PIOLI: “I think the process begins by getting a better grasp on the talent that is here. We will be multi-tasking at the Senior Bowl and as we do our college evaluation. I want to get a better grasp on this football team and know these players that are here.

He also said: "This is going to be a very methodical process in building this football team, and we’re going to start from the ground up and build a foundation, move ahead, and touch every part of the football operation. The patience that I know Clark has told me he’s going to show it going to be rewarded."

People may not like it, but he started his GM responsibilities by talking about the evaluation of existing talent and he talked about patience and being methodical.

**dirk digler** · 12-16-2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I could have sworn everyone pretty much agreed on this before the season IIRC.

They did.

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 01:12 PM

I love it, Pioli gets a pass for being incompetent, our future is bright.

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

I'm not excusing his horrible draft and he didn't begin to build the Chiefs the way I would have, but here is what Pioli said the day he was hired:

Q: How do you build a team, through the draft or free agency or a combination?
PIOLI: “I think the process begins by getting a better grasp on the talent that is here. We will be multi-tasking at the Senior Bowl and as we do our college evaluation. I want to get a better grasp on this football team and know these players that are here.

He also said: "This is going to be a very methodical process in building this football team, and we’re going to start from the ground up and build a foundation, move ahead, and touch every part of the football operation. The patience that I know Clark has told me he’s going to show it going to be rewarded."

People may not like it, but he started his GM responsibilities by talking about the evaluation of existing talent and he talked about patience and being methodical.

Well if he thought he was taking foundation steps his first year he failed and failed epically.

beach tribe · 12-16-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Hey, we don't agree and I respect that. Still, I stand by my comment: if Pioli needed one full season to evaluate the existing talent on this team, he is the most incompetent GM in the league.

Maybe it didn't take a whole season, but it took longer than he had before the season began.

Not to mention trying to put together a coaching staff, moving his family, etc. etc,.

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Maybe it didn't take a whole season, but it took longer than he had before the season began.

Not to mention trying to put together a coaching staff, moving his family, etc. etc,.

You realize you are essentially saying let's give him a pass because he's kinda slow, right?

I don't see other new GM's getting these excuses as they actually help their teams get better.

**dirk digler** · 12-16-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Based on what?

Didn't I read where Studebaker gave Vrabel alot of credit for teaching him how to play? I swore I read that.

12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2031115	Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from. One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team." Let me make this clear: I do not disagree. However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse. And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple: The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation. I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought. Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization. And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors. Two. Out of forty-five. That's a whopping 4% success rate. I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players. Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's. Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's. And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC. With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players. Let the excuses flow like fine wine. Discus. This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.
Posts: 60,758

12-16-2009, 01:07 PM	#212
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-772950	I think the idea of asking a team that had 50 mill in cap room and a top 5 pick to bring in one foundation player is not asking to much yet they couldn't even do that.
Posts: 115,406

12-16-2009, 01:12 PM	#219
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	I'm not excusing his horrible draft and he didn't begin to build the Chiefs the way I would have, but here is what Pioli said the day he was hired: Q: How do you build a team, through the draft or free agency or a combination? PIOLI: “I think the process begins by getting a better grasp on the talent that is here. We will be multi-tasking at the Senior Bowl and as we do our college evaluation. I want to get a better grasp on this football team and know these players that are here. He also said: "This is going to be a very methodical process in building this football team, and we’re going to start from the ground up and build a foundation, move ahead, and touch every part of the football operation. The patience that I know Clark has told me he’s going to show it going to be rewarded." People may not like it, but he started his GM responsibilities by talking about the evaluation of existing talent and he talked about patience and being methodical. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541

12-16-2009, 01:12 PM	#221
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-772950	I love it, Pioli gets a pass for being incompetent, our future is bright.
Posts: 115,406