I'm changing my stripes. I have a new plan for the defensive line.

[Chris Meck]

I say we keep Jonesy, and we load up on DT.

Give me D'aron Payne. Then bring back Saunders and Williams for run downs.

Give me a Smoot, and maybe a Clelin Ferrell reclamation project.

Let's crush the pocket from the middle out.

I'm watching Burrow, and Brady, and the games yesterday, and...man, guys get the ball out QUICK except for Mahomes. Your ends just aren't going to get there fast enough unless you have truly elite speed rushers.

But if you had Payne and Jones; you can't double them both. One of them is getting a one on one and will be in the QB's face immediately.

Then you can go with bigger power rushers outside for containment.

Maybe this is the way.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

It's a tough decision for them. I don't think Sweat breaks the bank too bad. He's a really solid end but I don't think he's a "plus" end that gets into the 20+ range. 15-17 per, probably. If I'm going there, why not try to swing for Ngakoue and not spend a pick/player on anything?

Could they trade Payne? Absolutely. They SHOULD trade him and they likely will. They are still going to have to tag him to trade him, so we can't just waltz in there and sign him. We also probably shouldn't make the trade unless it is a player swap. My opinion is that it's going to take a 1st even if they have no intention to keep him around, which I'd assume is the case since they drafted Phidarian Mathis at 47 last year.

If they take OBJ for Payne if they both get tagged? Yeah, make it happen.

If they let him walk? Oh yeah, I'm 100% all-in at that point. Go get that monster.

I think Sweat is quite a bit better player than Ngakoue.

Depending on the draft capital in question, I think Sweat at a similar cap hit to Yannick would be worth the trade capital.

But if you're talking about a pick in the first or 2nd round? Eh...may pivot at that point.

That said, I'm pretty down on Ngakoue - he's just very quiet in between his splash plays. It's possible I'm not giving him enough credit - but he doesn't seem like a disruptive player as much as a guy who just shows up in spurts.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think Sweat is quite a bit better player than Ngakoue.

Depending on the draft capital in question, I think Sweat at a similar cap hit to Yannick would be worth the trade capital.

But if you're talking about a pick in the first or 2nd round? Eh...may pivot at that point.

That said, I'm pretty down on Ngakoue - he's just very quiet in between his splash plays. It's possible I'm not giving him enough credit - but he doesn't seem like a disruptive player as much as a guy who just shows up in spurts.

They got Sweat with a first rounder, IIRC, right?

I wonder if a similar comp would be the OBJ trade. We give up our 1st, they send a 2/3 back?

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I think Sweat is quite a bit better player than Ngakoue.

Depending on the draft capital in question, I think Sweat at a similar cap hit to Yannick would be worth the trade capital.

But if you're talking about a pick in the first or 2nd round? Eh...may pivot at that point.

That said, I'm pretty down on Ngakoue - he's just very quiet in between his splash plays. It's possible I'm not giving him enough credit - but he doesn't seem like a disruptive player as much as a guy who just shows up in spurts.

Glad to know I'm not the only one thinking this.

[JPH83]

I wonder what Davenport fetches given his injuries and his lack of sacks this year. If his value is knocked I really wouldn't hate getting him. Young, can do it all, still getting pressure it sounds like even without the sacks.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by JPH83

I wonder what Davenport fetches given his injuries and his lack of sacks this year. If his value is knocked I really wouldn't hate getting him. Young, can do it all, still getting pressure it sounds like even without the sacks.

Davenport seems like a sort of best case scenario for Karlaftis.

Not really a complement to him, but a slightly more advanced version of him.

I've reached the same position I reached with RB last year - just give me speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.

I'm tired of these long guys who win with power or technique. And not terribly often at that.

We need someone that can swap sides and force teams to respect the arc and thus think long and hard before setting up deep drops. I will never understand how we just ignored that inevitable counter to our rush approach.

Just set up deep and you're essentially getting 2 free seconds to scan and fire.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Davenport seems like a sort of best case scenario for Karlaftis.

Not really a complement to him, but a slightly more advanced version of him.

I've reached the same position I reached with RB last year - just give me speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.

I'm tired of these long guys who win with power or technique. And not terribly often at that.

We need someone that can swap sides and force teams to respect the arc and thus think long and hard before setting up deep drops. I will never understand how we just ignored that inevitable counter to our rush approach.

Just set up deep and you're essentially getting 2 free seconds to scan and fire.

Just trade for Brian Burns and be done with it.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Just trade for Brian Burns and be done with it.

Well evidently the Panthers were turning down offers of 2 first rounders for him from the Rams.

You eager to top that one?

"Be done with it..." is easier said than done, sir.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Well evidently the Panthers were turning down offers of 2 first rounders for him from the Rams.

You eager to top that one?

"Be done with it..." is easier said than done, sir.

Apparently they were turning down future first rounders from the Rams.

Give them this years 1 and a future 2nd.

Yeah, I'm good wiht that.

[Dante84]

Another random thought if we go this route - if we can’t get speed on the edges, can we get height/arm length to swat down the hot passes? Dunlap has a few of these this year.

Obviously need some level of talent, as opposed to the trash like KPass and Kaindoh.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Davenport seems like a sort of best case scenario for Karlaftis.

Not really a complement to him, but a slightly more advanced version of him.

I've reached the same position I reached with RB last year - just give me speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.

I'm tired of these long guys who win with power or technique. And not terribly often at that.

We need someone that can swap sides and force teams to respect the arc and thus think long and hard before setting up deep drops. I will never understand how we just ignored that inevitable counter to our rush approach.

Just set up deep and you're essentially getting 2 free seconds to scan and fire.

Oh yeah I think I agree on what's missing. If we were in on Davenport at a reduced cost I'd still be looking for an explosive DE in the draft. I don't know who would be left in FA who fits the bill. I like Okoronkwo and Omenihu but they might not be that type of player either?

[O.city]

Well guys, were at the point that if you want that speed DE that can just be an ass kicker.....well.....we know where those guys get drafted.

I know no one likes it, but they're probably gonna have to either trade up for one or trade for an pay one.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Well guys, were at the point that if you want that speed DE that can just be an ass kicker.....well.....we know where those guys get drafted.

I know no one likes it, but they're probably gonna have to either trade up for one or trade for an pay one.

I don't need one that can be an 'ass-kicker'.

Just one that can be fast. A 3rd down rotational player who can just be fast.

I don't care if that ends up being Leo Chenal at this point. Just give me a rotational player who can challenge the arc. That's it and that's not hard to find. Guys like Nick Bonitto go in the 3rd every year.

[kccrow]

I wouldn't trade for Brian Burns. Why do we have to visit throwing every draft resource we have plus a good chunk of the cap resource we have with these visions of trading for a guy that's going to cost more than two 1sts? Legit he's going to cost no less than two 1's and a 3 and maybe more.

Not a chance.

As for getting speed rushers, there are always plenty of guys at the end of 1 and through the mid-2nd that fit. Felix and McDonald are prime-A examples of guys that probably end up in that range. They aren't great run defenders and are a bit light, but they are fast and regularly threaten the arc. Just take one of those guys.

Our more significant issue right now is needing two pillar positions in one off-season and how to combat that. You absolutely can't do it if you're trading everything away only to pay the guy too.

Ngakoue might not be the perfect solution, but he's ****-all less of a total resource cost than trading for Sweat or Burns or whatever flavor of the day.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't need one that can be an 'ass-kicker'.

Just one that can be fast. A 3rd down rotational player who can just be fast.

I don't care if that ends up being Leo Chenal at this point. Just give me a rotational player who can challenge the arc. That's it and that's not hard to find. Guys like Nick Bonitto go in the 3rd every year.

Originally Posted by kccrow

I wouldn't trade for Brian Burns. Why do we have to visit throwing every draft resource we have plus a good chunk of the cap resource we have with these visions of trading for a guy that's going to cost more than two 1sts? Legit he's going to cost no less than two 1's and a 3 and maybe more.

Not a chance.

As for getting speed rushers, there are always plenty of guys at the end of 1 and through the mid-2nd that fit. Felix and McDonald are prime-A examples of guys that probably end up in that range. They aren't great run defenders and are a bit light, but they are fast and regularly threaten the arc. Just take one of those guys.

Our more significant issue right now is needing two pillar positions in one off-season and how to combat that. You absolutely can't do it if you're trading everything away only to pay the guy too.

Ngakoue might not be the perfect solution, but he's ****-all less of a total resource cost than trading for Sweat or Burns or whatever flavor of the day.

The issue is gonna be, I'm just not sure you can fill 2 pilar spots in an offseason without being aggressive.

They aren't gonna fill the DE and T spot with draft picks. Based on their history, it's just not gonna be the way they go about it. They'll do one thru the draft and be aggressive on the other somehow.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't need one that can be an 'ass-kicker'.

Just one that can be fast. A 3rd down rotational player who can just be fast.

I don't care if that ends up being Leo Chenal at this point. Just give me a rotational player who can challenge the arc. That's it and that's not hard to find. Guys like Nick Bonitto go in the 3rd every year.

You may think we don't "need' that, but it seems every other team eventually determines that they do.

So I'm guessing the Chiefs will feel the same.