"Alex Smith makes your defense better"

[temper11]

Article from Arrowhead Pride. Talks of the apparent positive effects of Smith's game on the defense.

This won't change any minds... Smith-baters have been saying this for a while now, but at least someone put it on paper and put some numbers to it for discussion.

Have at it everyone...

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/6...defense-better

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

That's not what I was doing. I was asking for QBs that excelled (or played at a high level) while having both shit at OL and WR.

Give me a year where Ben truly excelled, and didn't have more than shit for OL and WRs.

Same for the others. That is the level of specificity I was truly hoping for.

Ben didn't really excel until 2007.. where really, the only thing he could have been said to do very well in was throwing 32 TD passes. However, he had a young and very good Santonio Holmes at that time... plus Hines Ward.. and throw in Heath Miller. The 4 yrs after 2007, he was solid but not putting up grand numbers. They drafted Mike Wallace for him in 2000, and he was great in the early years. Antonio Brown is a top 5 WR in the league... no?

Would these receivers not remove him from the list?

The players I gave are examples that fit your parameters. Roethlisberger was 23 years old when he had a QB rating of 98.6, and about a 2:1 TD:INT ratio, in 2005, and he helped his team to a Super Bowl win. ViperVisor's already shown himself to be a complete ****ing idiot. There's no need for you to join him in that.

I'm not going to play the disqualify game with you. It's embarrassing that you're even trying it.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

You're entire ****ing argument doesn't make sense!

You ask for QBs that have excelled with subpar OL and WR play, I list several names, you say they don't count because this, that and the other.

This guy is elite and that guy was a generational prospect and the other guy threw for more yards, more TDs, and higher completion percentage in his third year than Alex ever had in 10 years while being surrounded by unquestionably inferior talent and yet they're "much the same".

Actually, this was my discussion (happy to share though).. and I later allowed elite QBs in, because frankly.. they were the only few (still debatable if any) that could fit into the crap OL and WR parameters.

The point is.. throughout history, it seems rare (if ever) for even good/great QBs to function at a high level when they have trash at both OL and WR. Yet people expect that Alex Smith should be one of those QBs?

Instead of being pissed that he can't work magic with trash... how bout be angry that the Chiefs are struggling to field even a mediocre group of OL and WRs.

Now, I expect these position groups to be better now.. at least at WR. OL... no idea.

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by ViperVisor

Cutler had 28 TDs, he was better?

Case for Tannehill noticeably did more over Smith in 2014 is incredibly weak just give it up.

Cutler is debatable but you cherry picked the one guy that was debatable and ignored the other 12 with 25 or more TDs that arent debatable by sane people.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

The players I gave are examples that fit your parameters. Roethlisberger was 23 years old when he had a QB rating of 98.6, and about a 2:1 TD:INT ratio, in 2005. ViperVisor's already shown himself to be a complete ****ing idiot. There's no need for you to join him in that.

I'm not going to play the disqualify game with you. It's embarrassing that you're even trying it.

Sorry you feel that way.

So now it's about the QB rating? At 23, Ben had a pro bowl WR in Hines Ward. He had a middle of the pack OL then, and some solid players named Marvel Smith, Faneca, Hartings, Simmons, and Starks.

Ben put up 2,300 yds passing.. 17 TDs.. 10 turnovers..

Are we really going to give him massive credit for anything other than playing well with a good roster at a young age?

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

Sorry you feel that way.

So now it's about the QB rating? At 23, Ben had a pro bowl WR in Hines Ward. He had a middle of the pack OL then, and some solid players named Marvel Smith, Faneca, Hartings, Simmons, and Starks.

Ben put up 2,300 yds passing.. 17 TDs.. 10 turnovers..

Are we really going to give him massive credit for anything other than playing well with a good roster at a young age?

Nope. The most important player on the field doesn't deserve any credit for winning 2 SB's.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

Actually, this was my discussion (happy to share though).. and I later allowed elite QBs in, because frankly.. they were the only few (still debatable if any) that could fit into the crap OL and WR parameters.



The point is.. throughout history, it seems rare (if ever) for even good/great QBs to function at a high level when they have trash at both OL and WR. Yet people expect that Alex Smith should be one of those QBs?



Instead of being pissed that he can't work magic with trash... how bout be angry that the Chiefs are struggling to field even a mediocre group of OL and WRs.



Now, I expect these position groups to be better now.. at least at WR. OL... no idea.

You ask for QBs that have performed well under certain circumstances, I give you names and you say those QBs are good so they don't count.

You want me to name people that suck to help prop up your argument.

[ViperVisor]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

You're entire ****ing argument doesn't make sense!

You ask for QBs that have excelled with subpar OL and WR play, I list several names, you say they don't count because this, that and the other.

They mostly don't count cause they are not valid applications of the equation.

The argument is clear.

A non-great QB *Alex Smith fits this*
additionally a Bottom 5-10 Pass Weapons
additionally a Bottom 5-10 Pass Blocking

And my god some act like we have to defend a
69.4 season Eli had in 2013
73.1 season Flacco had in 2013

Smith had a very solid and very unspectacular season in 2014 with a 93.4 rating

[ThaVirus]

Is anyone else as tired of Viper's drop percentage stay as I am?

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

You ask for QBs that have performed well under certain circumstances, I give you names and you say those QBs are good so they don't count.

You want me to name people that suck to help prop up your argument.

Actually, I was more interested in seeing if people could name anyone that might make me reconsider.

... and I am looking for QBs that performed very well under those circumstances. Not QBs that had similar Alex-Smith like numbers.

The idea here is.. if Alex.. with a crap OL and WRs... can perform to the level he has in the last 2 years...

Surely, there must be QBs that... with a crap OL and WRs... has performed at a higher level.

.. but I am not getting much help in the way of naming those QBs, which years, and the personnel that they had.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Is anyone else as tired of Viper's drop percentage stay as I am?

I know I am tired of the Chiefs being in the top 5 worst team drop percentage in the last 2 seasons. That sucks.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Sandy Cheeks

Sorry you feel that way.

So now it's about the QB rating? At 23, Ben had a pro bowl WR in Hines Ward. He had a middle of the pack OL then, and some solid players named Marvel Smith, Faneca, Hartings, Simmons, and Starks.

Ben put up 2,300 yds passing.. 17 TDs.. 10 turnovers..

Are we really going to give him massive credit for anything other than playing well with a good roster at a young age?

This is the problem with people like you. You don't know when to just admit that a couple of guys fit the bill. That OL was not good and, as I'd noted in that earlier thread, Hines Ward was all Roethlisberger had at receiver. He led the team with 69 catches. The #2 WR was Randle El, with 35. You don't get to overrate that group when Smith's had Bowe at WR. And, yes, we're going to give the QB some credit for helping his team win the Super Bowl. That 2005 Steelers defense wasn't any kind of all-time group.

Roethlisberger fits the bill, as do Brady and Dilfer from the 2000-2015 SB span. That's just life.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

This is the problem with people like you. You don't know when to just admit that a couple of guys fit the bill. That OL was not good and, as I'd noted in that earlier thread, Hines Ward was all Roethlisberger had at receiver. He led the team with 69 catches. The #2 WR was Randle El, with 35. You don't get to overrate that group when Smith's had Bowe at WR.

Roethlisberger fits the bill, as do Brady and Dilfer from the 2000-2015 SB span. That's just life.

... and I am looking for QBs that performed very well under those circumstances. Not QBs that had similar Alex-Smith like numbers.
The idea here is.. if Alex.. with a crap OL and WRs... can perform to the level he has in the last 2 years...

Surely, there must be QBs that... with a crap OL and WRs... has performed at a higher level.

... and even if I was to accept the few names you offer.. the point still stands. It's not about "oh, no one has or can ever do it." It's more about it being a very rare thing.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by rico

Ahhh!!!! HHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

God, Sorter is awesome.

When Sorter occasionally corrects me on football matters, I generally shut the **** up.

After thanking him of course.

[duncan_idaho]

I wish Sandy Cheeks would get the AIDS he has given this thread.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I wish Sandy Cheeks would get the AIDS he has given this thread.

you seem nice