If fully healthy, this could be the greatest offense we've ever watched

[dlphg9]

This is going to be exciting as **** if Hardman can play at full strength. The possibility of having Kelce, JJSS, McKinnon, Toney, and Hardman all on the field together and healthy for the 1st time is amazing. Add in a damn good RB in Pacheco and this could literally be the best offense that we've ever seen.

Imagine the shit Andy can come up with like Hardman and Toney in the backfield at the same time or McKinnon and Toney/Hardman in the backfield with Toney/Hardman potentially coming around for a jet sweep. Having JJSS as a more than competent receiving option this year and Hardman and Toney's speed is literally going to be an absolute nightmare for opposing teams.

I'm really excited for these playoff games, just gotta hope that everyone gets healed up over the next 2 weeks. HFA is huge.

So excited.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

"I don't care what the data supports - I know what I know and MVS is jaking passes out there..."

Um...okay.

Guess there ain't much to talk about when you've made your decision, data be damned.

What you 'know' is that MVS is supposed to be our Mike Williams. So what you know is really remarkably wrong-headed. But you know it, so I guess you've got that going for you.

Lolz, whatever, man. MVS is our 2, Skrowronek is a 5, but Ben will at least attack the football above his head.

And MVS isn't coming down with footballs a whole lot more often than Stone Hands. What is it, 6%? With more targets, more athleticism, and a much better QB.

You're right; I don't really have anything else to say on the matter. It's pretty simple.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

MVS doesn't have a small catch radius. He runs downfield routes that require full speed movement and exceptionally high levels of momentum. That guy is long and fast with big arms and good leaping ability. He doesn't have a small catch radius - he simply has a low probability route tree.

He's not a low variance player. He's not a possession WR. If he were, with his frame and speed, he'd be Julio Jones.

He's not that guy because he doesn't have the freakish body control that Julio Jones had. So let's just stop acting like he should be.

Im not acting like he should be Julio Jones, lol.

No, he's not a possession WR. Agreed.

I agree, he runs a low probability route tree.

I agree, he doesn't have freaky body control.

I'm not asking him to be anything more than what he is. Again, i like MVS. ****, i said, and still believe, he's a better talent than JuJu.

I want MVS on this roster moving forward. Hell, i wanna retain Hardman too.

I think they're fine in their respective roles.

What i'm asking for is someone with the physicality to win contested catches, while still having the speed to challenge vertically that can compliment those guys.

A JuJu that can run?

A Sammy Watkins that can stay healthy?

A George Pickens, even????

I'm not asking for the sun and the moon here.

MY position, is that we need to get more out of JuJu's position.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by crispystl

You don't think they've been sandbagging the playbook to some extent?

I think they've been playing the hand they were dealt. New receivers across the board and injuries to the speed guys have altered the looks.

[ToxSocks]

You can't sit here and tell me that what im asking for is too much, when we just passed on what im asking for in the 2nd round.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Im not acting like he should be Julio Jones, lol.

No, he's not a possession WR. Agreed.

I agree, he runs a low probability route tree.

I agree, he doesn't have freaky body control.

I'm not asking him to be anything more than what he is. Again, i like MVS. ****, i said, and still believe, he's a better talent than JuJu.

I want MVS on this roster moving forward. Hell, i wanna retain Hardman too.

I think they're fine in their respective roles.

What i'm asking for is someone with the physicality to win contested catches, while still having the speed to challenge vertically that can compliment those guys.

A JuJu that can run?

A Sammy Watkins that can stay healthy?

A George Pickens, even????

I'm not asking for the sun and the moon here.

MY position, is that we need to get more out of JuJu's position.

Most of those guys you are wanting or talked about earlier, well.....they got drafted pretty early.

Mike Williams, etc.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

We have 3 WR's in our division that can do it. 4 if you count Sutton, which imo, qualifies as well. We don't have to look far.

30% success rate on downfield passes. 2 drops on throws past 10 yards, same as MVS. Far fewer yards per route run. Worse success rate. He's undeniably a less effective downfield receiver than MVS.

Y'all just keep remembering the one time someone did something like that and "Hey, Courtland Sutton can do it!!"

So can MVS. He has. He doesn't do it with regularity because it simply doesn't get DONE with regularity. Sutton ain't doing it. Williams isn't. FFS, Demarcus Robinson sure as SHIT wasn't doing it.

What you're asking is for MVS to be a downfield threat AND JJSS. That ain't who he is. We specifically went out there and got 'niche' weapons instead of trying to find more jack of all trade players.

MVS, for what he does and what he's been ASKED to do, has been damn good at it here. But because he's not out there Mossing dudes on 40 yard throws downfield with regularity, you want to act like he's quitting on plays. He's not.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

You can't sit here and tell me that what im asking for is too much, when we just passed on what im asking for in the 2nd round.

The Chiefs obviously don't want one of those guys. So maybe you should move on?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Im not acting like he should be Julio Jones, lol.

No, he's not a possession WR. Agreed.

I agree, he runs a low probability route tree.

I agree, he doesn't have freaky body control.
...
MY position, is that we need to get more out of JuJu's position.

I don't disagree with any of this.

I'm taking exception only to this idea that he's not getting those balls because he's not trying. And that he 'just needs to go get those balls' as though there's just some switch to flip.

There isn't.

Oh, and then there's the idea that we'd be better off with Dropmarcus or Skrownwhatever because 'he catches balls above his head' or whatever other such nonsense is being spewed.

The hyperbole surrounding MVS is just ridiculous.

[frozenchief]

Originally Posted by ThyKingdomCome15

You really do get the feeling the Chiefs have been holding back.

I don’t know about holding back. However, not everyone has been healthy. Hardman adds an extra element to this team’s offense. We haven’t scored 40 since he was on IR. With him and Tony on this team, I think we will see an offense firing on all cylinders.

Also, there was a very strong sense that Andy and company were keeping a lot of things under wraps over the past several weeks. None of the teams we faced after Cincy needed a particularly genius game plan so it seems that, ‘Arctic Circle’ aside, the play calling was largely vanilla and predictable.

What is far more interesting is that this seems to be the best defense of the Mahomes’ era. Since the bye, our defense has been ranked 12 in DVOA. Mahomes doesn’t need a top 10 defense like Brady got. He just needs someone that is competent. Our D just held LV to 13 points and yeah, it’s Stidham. But they put 34 points on the #1 defense the week before. Plus, it’s the NFL. You aren’t playing on an NFL team unless you’re really good at football.

This team goes through the playoffs with the same precision and execution that we saw Saturday and we will win the SB.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Chiefs obviously don't want one of those guys. So maybe you should move on?

I think they probably do, actually.

They just couldn't get it this year.

I think this season they allocated scarce resources to particular niche skills in an attempt to re-build the position on the cheap.

Then they flat missed with the Moore pick.

But I think they'll keep shooting their shot and they WILL try to find a larger, more toolsy Z wide receiver.

Because they aren't using JJSS at ALL like Reid has ever used an X receiver. And I don't believe they drafted Moore expecting him to ever be like that. They just took what was in front of them.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

30% success rate on downfield passes. 2 drops on throws past 10 yards, same as MVS. Far fewer yards per route run. Worse success rate. He's undeniably a less effective downfield receiver than MVS.

Y'all just keep remembering the one time someone did something like that and "Hey, Courtland Sutton can do it!!"

So can MVS. He has. He doesn't do it with regularity because it simply doesn't get DONE with regularity. Sutton ain't doing it. Williams isn't. FFS, Demarcus Robinson sure as SHIT wasn't doing it.

What you're asking is for MVS to be a downfield threat AND JJSS. That ain't who he is. We specifically went out there and got 'niche' weapons instead of trying to find more jack of all trade players.

MVS, for what he does and what he's been ASKED to do, has been damn good at it here. But because he's not out there Mossing dudes on 40 yard throws downfield with regularity, you want to act like he's quitting on plays. He's not.

Again, i'm high on MVS. I like MVS. I think he's the most capable WR on the roster outside of Toney.

I'm not asking MVS to be anything more than he is. Im also not in denial about what he isn't.

His hands are somewhat shaky, a reputation he's had long before KC, and has shown itself at times in KC, and he's not a particularly physical player.

No, i don't think he's "Quitting" on plays, and have never said that.

He he has some holes in his game. And that's fine. He's a nice #2. But he's not going to out jump someone. He's not gonna out position a guy, whether that be due to body control or strength. He's not gonna wrestle a 50/50 ball away from a DB. That's the part of his game that's missing.

And that's ok! Because we should be able to get a guy opposite of him that CAN.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Again, i'm high on MVS. I like MVS. I think he's the most capable WR on the roster outside of Toney.

I'm not asking MVS to be anything more than he is. Im also not in denial about what he isn't.

His hands are somewhat shaky, a reputation he's had long before KC, and has shown itself at times in KC, and he's not a particularly physical player.

No, i don't think he's "Quitting" on plays, and have never said that.

He he has some holes in his game. And that's fine. He's a nice #2. But he's not going to out jump someone. He's not gonna out position a guy, whether that be due to body control or strength. He's not gonna wrestle a 50/50 ball away from a DB. That's the part of his game that's missing.

And that's ok! Because we should be able to get a guy opposite of him that CAN.

Yeah - we're cool.

We (I?) were speaking past each other. My bad.

[Megatron96]

I've never said that MVS quits on plays. But he doesn't try to make plays using his physical gifts, in particular his size and length nearly often enough. It has happened, which is great, but it's pretty inconsistent in his case, and that's frustrating when there are WRs out there with the same basic gifts doing more with them on a regular basis.

End of rant.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Where I think he really struggles is double-moves.

Because those routes need a lot of touch and the WR has to be able to locate and adjust to the ball coming out of his route.

Mahomes throws such a flat deep shot that the timing has to be absolutely perfect and that's just damn tough to do on a double move where there a half-dozen different things that can get that WRs route changed.

I honestly think that's why we don't use them much. Folks typically blame the OL but I think it's the lack of air Mahomes puts under his deep ball.

He's also throwing to a new crew, sans Hardman.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Chiefs obviously don't want one of those guys. So maybe you should move on?

Considering they keep drafting and signing lesser versions ever since Sammy Watkins, yeah i'd say your statement is complete bullshit.

Again.....a JuJu that can run. AKA Sammy Watkins.