Chiefs Sam Mellinger: Chiefs whiff on chance to improve at QB - Page 8

scho63 · 03-21-2012, 02:59 AM

Scott Piolii will be happy to read this in the morning's paper....

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/20...o-improve.html

Can't say I disagreee

**gblowfish** · 03-21-2012, 10:16 AM

We might sneak in and win the AFC West this year, then get killed in the first round of the playoffs like two years ago. Cassel has a lot to prove. You know the fans are going to be on his ass big time this year, and deservedly so.

I'm afraid as long as the books stay in the black, the candy wrappers get picked up, and Clark's soccer team keeps winning, he'll be a happy and satisfied little Texan.

I'm in kind of a bad mood this week. Winston was the only really good news. This team still needs a QB and NT. Our new goal should be to draft whoever it takes to kill Peyton Manning on a pass rush.

**007** · 03-21-2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

The narrative never changes.

Forget the fact that Manning had no interest in coming to Kansas City.
Forget the fact that Orton chose to be an overpaid clipboard-holder.
Forget the fact that we were in no real position to trade up for either Luck or Griffin.
Forget the fact that there were no other options.

It's always Pioli's fault.

Though I agree with all your points, Pioli is the one that stuck us with Cassel in the first place. So yes, it is his fault regardless of these facts.

A good majority of us knew Cassel was going to be a turd when he was brought here.

Pasta Little Brioni · 03-21-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

Though I agree with all your points, Pioli is the one that stuck us with Cassel n the first place. So yes, it is his fault regardless of all your facts.

A good majority of us knew Cassel was going to be a turd when he was brought here.

As opposed to the other turds that have been available since he took over. Instead of a brown one, we could have one of those cool green ones I guess.

There really hasn't been much available through free agency or thier draft spots.

Brock · 03-21-2012, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

their silence worked against him. The fans would be fine if they knew the front office tried. It feels like they made a half ass attempt to court peyton and didn't even ask about rgIII.

The chiefs made promises that they'd fix the qb situation. Don't feed us the same corporate speak that Brady Quinn accomplishes that. Don't try to convince us that we should somehow be happy win cassel. Tell us flat out that cassel has to earn a starting job, is under the gun, and that they're still actively looking.

This situation wouldn't be so bad if the front office would treat fans more respectfully.

I don't care how they treat the fans. It has no bearing on whether the team was improved or not.

Mile High Mania · 03-21-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I'm a little confused by the salary cap stuff. At first I was hearing that we were way under the cap and had something like $40M in room. Then later I heard that it was only $15M and that the Broncos were way under (as if they follow the rules anyway).

If cap space dictated that we couldn't pay a $90M contract over 5 years, then it is what it is. But that's not what I was reading at first.

The biggest problems to me are:

1. The fact that Manning wouldn't talk to us at all, and why, which is a bigger issue than not signing with us in the end.
2. The fact that we let Orton go when he was a clear upgrade over Cassel.
3. Not drafting a QB twice when we had top-five picks. In hindsight some of the obvious choices were mediocre or busts, so does that mean we have really good talent scouting or does it mean that we didn't want a QB?

Not trading up in the draft doesn't bother me. Those trades are always highly risky.

Pioli is doing a good job in fixing everything else, and he seems to identify the problems well. So is he just not finding the right QB and waiting until the right one comes along, or is he too wedded to Cassel to look? Finding the next Brady could take decades, but I think the team could do quite well with the next Donovan McNabb or Matt Schaub or Matt Hasselbeck while we're waiting for the next Brady.

I think his boat is tied to Cassel and he wants to keep it from sinking... prior to giving up and going elsewhere. KC has very nice talent, if Cassel sucks in 2012 ... you need to cut bait.

crazycoffey · 03-21-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

Though I agree with all your points, Pioli is the one that stuck us with Cassel in the first place. So yes, it is his fault regardless of these facts.

A good majority of us knew Cassel was going to be a turd when he was brought here.

I don't know how you can say you knew he would be a turd when he was brought in. All signs pointed to it being a good signing. He did really well ALL season in NE that year prior, unlike flynn who did good in two games. I agree the price tag seemed a bit high, but it didn't hurt us financially, so **** it.

**007** · 03-21-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

As opposed to the other turds that have been available since he took over. Instead of a brown one, we could have one of those cool green ones I guess.

There really hasn't been much available through free agency or thier draft spots.

For me, Pioli made three horrible decisions as soon as he got here. First, he traded for a QB before hiring a head coach. Second, that QB was Cassel. Third, he hired Haley.

Micjones · 03-21-2012, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

Though I agree with all your points, Pioli is the one that stuck us with Cassel in the first place. So yes, it is his fault regardless of these facts.

A good majority of us knew Cassel was going to be a turd when he was brought here.

He thought Cassel was the right guy for the job. He was wrong.
I don't blame him for thinking he was guy.

His mistake was extending him such a generous contract so soon.
That, he can be (and should be) held accountable for.

The rest of it gets to be flat ridiculous at times.

chiefzilla1501 · 03-21-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

he's not a huge upgrade. He's a marginal upgrade at best.

He is a very big upgrade, which isn't saying as much for Orton as much as it is saying very little about Cassel.

Orton extends drives whereas Cassel kills them. Orton spreads the field and throws to a lot of receivers whereas Cassel checks down every single time or forces the ball into Bowe's hands. Orton did the pre-check reads whereas Cassel got obliterated this year when Miami had the audacity to blitz him because Cassel doesn't know how to pick up the blitz. The only thing Cassel doesn't do is get into the end zone, but that's going to be better with Hillis and Charles getting us into the end zone whereas Battle and Jones were just plain horrendous. I get that Orton only gives us an outside chance, but at least it's a chance. This season is a complete throwaway if Cassel's under the helm.

Orton is better today, he's cheaper tomorrow. There is simply no excuse for the Chiefs not choosing Orton over Cassel. Zero.

chiefzilla1501 · 03-21-2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

He thought Cassel was the right guy for the job. He was wrong.
I don't blame him for thinking he was guy.

His mistake was extending him such a generous contract so soon.
That, he can be (and should be) held accountable for.

The rest of it gets to be flat ridiculous at times.

No. The problem was that in 3 years, the best he can show for QB competition is a 5th round pick in the 3rd year. In New England, he drafted a QB every single year. He got cocky.

And there is simply no excuse for picking Cassel over Orton. Zero. Don't give me that BS that Orton didn't want to be here. He didn't want to be here because Pioli apparently thought Dallas' contract was too expensive to be backup money. Pioli himself said it was all about money, which is just plain laughable.

Brock · 03-21-2012, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He is a very big upgrade, which isn't saying as much for Orton as much as it is saying very little about Cassel.

Orton extends drives whereas Cassel kills them. Orton spreads the field and throws to a lot of receivers whereas Cassel checks down every single time or forces the ball into Bowe's hands. Orton did the pre-check reads whereas Cassel got obliterated this year when Miami had the audacity to blitz him because Cassel doesn't know how to pick up the blitz. The only thing Cassel doesn't do is get into the end zone, but that's going to be better with Hillis and Charles getting us into the end zone whereas Battle and Jones were just plain horrendous. I get that Orton only gives us an outside chance, but at least it's a chance. This season is a complete throwaway if Cassel's under the helm.

Orton is better today, he's cheaper tomorrow. There is simply no excuse for the Chiefs not choosing Orton over Cassel. Zero.

I don't see any evidence whatever that Orton is a huge upgrade. Was he better? Yeah, a little. In some ways.

Micjones · 03-21-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He is a very big upgrade, which isn't saying as much for Orton as much as it is saying very little about Cassel.

Orton extends drives whereas Cassel kills them. Orton spreads the field and throws to a lot of receivers whereas Cassel checks down every single time or forces the ball into Bowe's hands. Orton did the pre-check reads whereas Cassel got obliterated this year when Miami had the audacity to blitz him because Cassel doesn't know how to pick up the blitz. The only thing Cassel doesn't do is get into the end zone, but that's going to be better with Hillis and Charles getting us into the end zone whereas Battle and Jones were just plain horrendous. I get that Orton only gives us an outside chance, but at least it's a chance. This season is a complete throwaway if Cassel's under the helm.

Orton is better today, he's cheaper tomorrow. There is simply no excuse for the Chiefs not choosing Orton over Cassel. Zero.

He also has VERY well documented struggles in the red zone.
Are you going to ignore that fact?

chiefzilla1501 · 03-21-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

He also has VERY well documented struggles in the red zone.
Are you going to ignore that fact?

Well documented in what ways? When has he ever had a back that was a legitimate red zone threat? The Broncos had a bottom 3 run offense under McDaniels and a horrendous red zone run offense with KC. It's a different game when you have a balanced red zone attack. In the Chiefs' case, it's not even balanced. Teams are going to be gunning for Charles and Hillis, opening up opportunities for the QB to make red zone plays. Jamaal Charles is going to help us get in the red zone on home runs. Peyton Hillis is going to get us the tough yards. And those guys are going to open up a ton of deep field for Orton to get us quite a few long TDs.

No, Orton is not a Peyton Manning QB who can score in the red zone even without good talent. But he will get us to the red zone with much more regularity, and we now have playmakers in place to start making plays when we get there and help Orton out a little bit. We won't be a great red zone team, but that downside is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the downside of Cassel forcing a ton of 3-and-outs and then lucking into Jamaal Charles hitting a 60-yard run to set up a red zone opportunity.

**morphius** · 03-21-2012, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guru

For me, Pioli made three horrible decisions as soon as he got here. First, he traded for a QB before hiring a head coach. Second, that QB was Cassel. Third, he hired Haley.

I wouldn't leave out ignoring the KC scouting department and pulling the first draft out of his derriere.

tredadda · 03-21-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Neither are upgrades.

To Painter? You can't be serious. People creamed their shorts over Orton replacing Palko and yet neither him nor Garrard are upgrades over Painter?

03-21-2012, 02:59 AM
scho63 Politically Incorrect Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Casino cash: $-790000	Sam Mellinger: Chiefs whiff on chance to improve at QB Scott Piolii will be happy to read this in the morning's paper.... http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/20...o-improve.html Can't say I disagreee
Posts: 54,966

03-21-2012, 10:16 AM	#106
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $16896178 VARSITY	We might sneak in and win the AFC West this year, then get killed in the first round of the playoffs like two years ago. Cassel has a lot to prove. You know the fans are going to be on his ass big time this year, and deservedly so. I'm afraid as long as the books stay in the black, the candy wrappers get picked up, and Clark's soccer team keeps winning, he'll be a happy and satisfied little Texan. I'm in kind of a bad mood this week. Winston was the only really good news. This team still needs a QB and NT. Our new goal should be to draft whoever it takes to kill Peyton Manning on a pass rush.
Posts: 41,011