Gas on the Fire: Shutdown Corner Gives Chiefs "F" in FA.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

IF you think we are truly a DeSean Jackson, jairus Byrd, and Dietrich Smith away from winning a Super Bowl in 2 or 3 years. Because your suggestion that we can get those guys and also rebuild for three years from now just because the cap is increasing is a huge stretch.

I think those guys make us better. But not so much that I am banking on that roster to win us a Super Bowl in an ultra small window.

The idea is you get those guys now in free agnecy, and that lets you draft purely for BPA. It goes hand in hand with your draft strategy to stock up on as much talent as possible. And in doing so, you cut dead weight every year and replace it with those draft picks. It means that next year you cut guys like Daniel, Flowers, and Fasano. If you drafted right, you might even be able to save money on letting go of a Sean Smith or Mike DeVito. If you're REALLY doing it right, Tamba Hali would also get let go. And that's how you afford to keep Berry, Houston, and Alex Smith.

No, the system isn't perfect. You're going to get some sour picks and sour free agents, but the key is it grants flexibility. That's the most important part. For example, let's say we signed TJ Ward. That means there is less pressure on us to take a Calvin Pryor at 23 when potentially a player like Eric Ebron drops to our spot. Or Mike Evans. Or Darqueze Dennard. Or ****... perhaps even Teddy Bridgewater. The draft is fully of unexpected surprises, and in a deep class like this one, there will be several players that we're shocked to see still available.

If you take care of pressing needs in free agency, that means there's no pressure to take need into account when making your choices. It's the difference between the Chiefs taking Xavier Suo'Filo because they have to and taking Dee Ford or Rashede Hageman because they WANT to.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SNR

The idea is you get those guys now in free agnecy, and that lets you draft purely for BPA. It goes hand in hand with your draft strategy to stock up on as much talent as possible. And in doing so, you cut dead weight every year and replace it with those draft picks. It means that next year you cut guys like Daniel, Flowers, and Fasano. If you drafted right, you might even be able to save money on letting go of a Sean Smith or Mike DeVito. If you're REALLY doing it right, Tamba Hali would also get let go. And that's how you afford to keep Berry, Houston, and Alex Smith.

No, the system isn't perfect. You're going to get some sour picks and sour free agents, but the key is it grants flexibility. That's the most important part. For example, let's say we signed TJ Ward. That means there is less pressure on us to take a Calvin Pryor at 23 when potentially a player like Eric Ebron drops to our spot. Or Mike Evans. Or Darqueze Dennard. Or ****... perhaps even Teddy Bridgewater. The draft is fully of unexpected surprises, and in a deep class like this one, there will be several players that we're shocked to see still available.

If you take care of pressing needs in free agency, that means there's no pressure to take need into account when making your choices. It's the difference between the Chiefs taking Xavier Suo'Filo because they have to and taking Dee Ford or Rashede Hageman because they WANT to.

But thats not the way it works. Because if you're all in to win now, people will complain if the chiefs draft a guy who doesn't fill an immediate need. The strategy should be to draft, give young guys a shot, and then use free agency to fill in the gaps. The only reason you're putting pressure on the chiefs to draft a safety is because you're convinced they have to win now.

The chiefs don't need a pass rusher. They don't need a QB right away . but if these guys are the bpa , you take them. I would rather the chiefs draft without caring about who fills an immediate need.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The chiefs don't need a pass rusher. They don't need a QB right away . but if these guys are the bpa , you take them. I would rather the chiefs draft without caring about who fills an immediate need.

Surely... You watched the games after Hali and Houston were out?

Even then, remember how the 2007 Giants beat New England? They had three guys capable of getting after the QB on any given snap.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

But thats not the way it works. Because if you're all in to win now, people will complain if the chiefs draft a guy who doesn't fill an immediate need. The strategy should be to draft, give young guys a shot, and then use free agency to fill in the gaps. The only reason you're putting pressure on the chiefs to draft a safety is because you're convinced they have to win now.

The chiefs done need a pass rusher. They don't need a QB right away . but if these guys are the big, you take them. I would rather the chiefs draft without caring about who fills an immediate need.

That's why you spend a little bit of money to bring in a free safety like Ward or even Clemons. Or you re-sign Schwartz or bring in Dietrich-Smith. It's called hedging your bets.

It's just two spots. Only two. We could have filled them cheaply with free agents, and then it wouldn't really matter who we selected in the first. Nobody would bitch about drafting an OLB, QB, CB, or DL for depth at least in his rookie year.

People blow their stacks when the team leaves gaping holes in the roster or fills trivial needs like G with 1st round picks. That's what gets them pissed off.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by SNR

That's why you spend a little bit of money to bring in a free safety like Ward or even Clemons. Or you re-sign Schwartz or bring in Dietrich-Smith. It's called hedging your bets.

It's just two spots. Only two. We could have filled them cheaply with free agents, and then it wouldn't really matter who we selected in the first. Nobody would bitch about drafting an OLB, QB, CB, or DL for depth at least in his rookie year.

People blow their stacks when the team leaves gaping holes in the roster or fills trivial needs like G with 1st round picks. That's what gets them pissed off.

Then they should also not freak out if we choose to not pay money for trivial holes. I agree, I would flip out if they draft an interior lineman with a high pick. But based on what Schneider and ted Thompson have done, they seem to like filling that late in the draft. It's why I don't get the bashing of comp picks. That is exactly the territory to look for these role guys.

And I disagree... When you have a win now strategy, this team feels forced to draft on need versus bpa. What if we got Byrd and a stud free safety was bpa for our top pick? We wouldn't draft one. It's one of the reasons why I say, if you want to go all in, be careful what you wish for.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Then they should also not freak out if we choose to not pay money for trivial holes. I agree, I would flip out if they draft an interior lineman with a high pick. But based on what Schneider and ted Thompson have done, they seem to like filling that late in the draft. It's why I don't get the bashing of comp picks. That is exactly the territory to look for these role guys.

And I disagree... When you have a win now strategy, this team feels forced to draft on need versus bpa. What if we got Byrd and a stud free safety was bpa for our top pick? We wouldn't draft one. It's one of the reasons why I say, if you want to go all in, be careful what you wish for.

If this team signed a FS, when our pick comes up, if Ha Ha Clintom Dix and Odell Beckham Jr are sitting there, then you have the flexibility to select Beckham Jr, because you have the gaping hole at FS already fixed.

If you haven't already filled that gaping hole, then regardless of strategy, be it win now or building for the future, you simply do not have that flexibility.

Drafting that safety both builds to the future and fills that gaping hole that can not simply be ignored in either strategy.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

If this team signed a FS, when our pick comes up, if Ha Ha Clintom Dix and Odell Beckham Jr are sitting there, then you have the flexibility to select Beckham Jr, because you have the gaping hole at FS already fixed.

If you haven't already filled that gaping hole, then regardless of strategy, be it win now or building for the future, you simply do not have that flexibility.

Drafting that safety both builds to the future and fills that gaping hole that can not simply be ignored in either strategy.

That's fine. You think we are a few pieces away. I don't think we are. We don't have depth which can only be built in the draft. We have too many holes in role positions which I would love to fill in the back of the draft. At times we are relying on average players in key positions like DeVito, when the draft should be finding you playmakers to fill that spot. And we are really overrating how critical some of our core guys are. Houston and Hali, yes. Dj and Flowers, very replaceable. I get that we can draft and make some free agent moves at the same time. But we really make it much harder to extend our window past a few years.

We almost beat an indy team that got whalloped in the second round by a team that is even better this year and didn't even win the conference. I think we are a good team and I get why people's concerns about our draft history creates urgency to win now. But sorry, I think the win now strategy only sets us up for disappointment and a guaranteed collapse by year 3. Just my personal opinion.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

That's fine. You think we are a few pieces away. I don't think we are. We don't have depth which can only be built in the draft. We have too many holes in role positions which I would love to fill in the back of the draft. At times we are relying on average players in key positions like DeVito, when the draft should be finding you playmakers to fill that spot. And we are really overrating how critical some of our core guys are. Houston and Hali, yes. Dj and Flowers, very replaceable. I get that we can draft and make some free agent moves at the same time. But we really make it much harder to extend our window past a few years.

We almost beat an indy team that got whalloped in the second round by a team that is even better this year and didn't even win the conference. I think we are a good team and I get why people's concerns about our draft history creates urgency to win now. But sorry, I think the win now strategy only sets us up for disappointment and a guaranteed collapse by year 3. Just my personal opinion.

Unless we get a QB that grows with the guys we are drafting in the next couple drafts, that window is closing in 3 years anyway.

And since I'm talking about 2nd contract mid tier free agents, we are talking about players that can play with this team for several years, vs. 2 late round picks in a draft that is being labeled as the weakest in years.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by SNR

That's why you spend a little bit of money to bring in a free safety like Ward or even Clemons. Or you re-sign Schwartz or bring in Dietrich-Smith. It's called hedging your bets.

It's just two spots. Only two. We could have filled them cheaply with free agents, and then it wouldn't really matter who we selected in the first. Nobody would bitch about drafting an OLB, QB, CB, or DL for depth at least in his rookie year.

People blow their stacks when the team leaves gaping holes in the roster or fills trivial needs like G with 1st round picks. That's what gets them pissed off.

The good news is (unless they're super-stupid!), the Chiefs are lurking on the board and reading all of this. But even if they are, I doubt they'll have the intellectual capacity to do anything about it (the whole desire to win deal spilling over into 1 Arrowhead Way's work ethic), but I suspect they're reading it and heading back into their meetings saying, "don't worry boss everything is fine, your Kingdom loves you, sleep well Sire nobody will hurt your profits tonight as I will be standing guard on the wall!" Then they put a call into Mr. Hy-Vee and Mr. Price Chopper, and tell them they might need to buy a few more $5 tickets" to claim their desired number of sell-outs.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by SNR

The idea is you get those guys now in free agnecy, and that lets you draft purely for BPA. It goes hand in hand with your draft strategy to stock up on as much talent as possible. And in doing so, you cut dead weight every year and replace it with those draft picks. It means that next year you cut guys like Daniel, Flowers, and Fasano. If you drafted right, you might even be able to save money on letting go of a Sean Smith or Mike DeVito. If you're REALLY doing it right, Tamba Hali would also get let go. And that's how you afford to keep Berry, Houston, and Alex Smith.

No, the system isn't perfect. You're going to get some sour picks and sour free agents, but the key is it grants flexibility. That's the most important part. For example, let's say we signed TJ Ward. That means there is less pressure on us to take a Calvin Pryor at 23 when potentially a player like Eric Ebron drops to our spot. Or Mike Evans. Or Darqueze Dennard. Or ****... perhaps even Teddy Bridgewater. The draft is fully of unexpected surprises, and in a deep class like this one, there will be several players that we're shocked to see still available.

If you take care of pressing needs in free agency, that means there's no pressure to take need into account when making your choices. It's the difference between the Chiefs taking Xavier Suo'Filo because they have to and taking Dee Ford or Rashede Hageman because they WANT to.

Totally agree with this, the judicious import of young, proven free agents to fill starting spot needs gives you so much much more leeway in the draft, while almost guaranteeing a high level of production at those starting spots... it simply allows a team to be creative in the draft.

One TJ Ward signing has a domino effect on the entire team and draft process... not even one real difference maker this year, I still don't get it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by scott free

Totally agree with this, the judicious import of young, proven free agents to fill starting spot needs gives you so much much more leeway in the draft, while almost guaranteeing a high level of production at those starting spots... it simply allows a team to be creative in the draft.

One TJ Ward signing has a domino effect on the entire team and draft process... not even one real difference maker this year, I still don't get it.

What gives you the most leeway is walking into the draft believing you can take anybody, even if you have a starter already at that position. If you sign TJ Ward and send the message that you're trying to "win now" then you just took Safety off your draft board and are now forced to target a draft pick who is ready to start right away. That means drafting a safe pick and pigeonholing yourself to filling a few positions of need, versus walking into the draft with an open mind.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

What gives you the most leeway is walking into the draft believing you can take anybody, even if you have a starter already at that position. If you sign TJ Ward and send the message that you're trying to "win now" then you just took Safety off your draft board and are now forced to target a draft pick who is ready to start right away. That means drafting a safe pick and pigeonholing yourself to filling a few positions of need, versus walking into the draft with an open mind.

You have this backwards.

This team has 2 major holes.
Ignoring free agency means you have to go into this draft targeting those holes.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by milkman

You have this backwards.

This team has 2 major holes.
Ignoring free agency means you have to go into this draft targeting those holes.

Bingo.

If we had signed TJ Ward/Clemons, Evan-Deitrich Smith and Emmanuel Sanders, the draft would be like a bonus.

Those 3 signings would have been easy to make happen, too.

Convert Hali and Bowes base salaries to bonuses and lets roll.

But, no.

We sat on our hands and waited for other tams we are "competing with" to bolster their already superior rosters while we play the "next year" game AGAIN.

Very aggravating.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Bingo.

If we had signed TJ Ward/Clemons, Evan-Deitrich Smith and Emmanuel Sanders, the draft would be like a bonus.

Those 3 signings would have been easy to make happen, too.

Convert Hali and Bowes base salaries to bonuses and lets roll.

But, no.

We sat on our hands and waited for other tams we are "competing with" to bolster their already superior rosters while we play the "next year" game AGAIN.

Very aggravating.

You keep bringing up the point about converting Hali and Bowes contract to bonuses. But ignore the fact that with signing bonus money, you are guaranteeing more money for them in their declining years.

If you want to win now at all costs today, fine. But let's not pretend there aren't consequences.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You keep bringing up the point about converting Hali and Bowes contract to bonuses. But ignore the fact that with signing bonus money, you are guaranteeing more money for them in their declining years.

If you want to win now at all costs today, fine. But let's not pretend there aren't consequences.

You don't seem to understand facts. No matter how many times I present them, you argue the same fruitless points. I don't understand it.

In 3 years, the salary cap is gonna be 150-155 million (maybe more, but at least that much) and players like Bowe, Hali, Flowers and Charles are gonna be gone, as will their contracts.

You think converting 8 million of Bowes base salary and spreading it between te next 4 years would hurt this teams cap situation? That's laughable. How about converting 5 million of Hali's base to a bonus over the next 3 years...that's 13 million that won't hurt this tam AT ALL over the next 2-3 years ...BUT THE TEAM COULD ADD SANDERS, WARD/CLEMONS AND DEITRICH SMITH WITH THAT MONEY.

add to that, the draft picks we have coming in as well as the players from last years draft that didnt contribute due to various reasons and EVERYONE HERE would be excited about next year.

Instead, you choose to tow the company line, as usual.