If fully healthy, this could be the greatest offense we've ever watched

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

pretty sure toney is better at it than anyone else on the roster right now

he's gotten two of those kinds of balls from mahomes in very limited reps

Ben Skowronek for the Rams. He was able to go up and get balls for Baker. But maybe that's because he's not that fast.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Ben Skowronek for the Rams. He was able to go up and get balls for Baker. But maybe that's because he's not that fast.

44% success rate on downfield passes. Worse than MVS.

Average depth of target - 8.0 yards; a full 7 yards per target shorter than MVS.

Guys, you're asking unreasonable things here and providing non-applicable examples. Yes, there are times a WR can jump up and catch a pass. But what you're talking about is a downfield receiver in full gallop stopping his momentum, going straight up, turning his body and bringing the ball in.

It doesn't happen NEARLY as frequently as y'all seem to think it does. And it certainly isn't guys running routes way downfield that tend to do it.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

44% success rate on downfield passes. Worse than MVS.

Average depth of target - 8.0 yards; a full 7 yards per target shorter than MVS.

Guys, you're asking unreasonable things here and providing non-applicable examples. Yes, there are times a WR can jump up and catch a pass. But what you're talking about is a downfield receiver in full gallop stopping his momentum, going straight up, turning his body and bringing the ball in.

It doesn't happen NEARLY as frequently as y'all seem to think it does. And it certainly isn't guys running routes way downfield that tend to do it.

The point I've been making, is that Stone Hands at least tried. And came down with some balls in the process. I don't care about his completion rate in this argument, because he's a WR5. He's not supposed to come down with more balls than MVS, so who cares what his actual completion rate is? Plus, he's had four different QBs throwing to him this year, so who knows if he'd have caught more balls with just some continuity.

But MVS has had the same guy throwing balls to him, so he doesn't get that excuse.

And while we're at it, you know who came down with a lot of those type passes for Mahomes in the past? D. Robinson. Did he have a great catch rate on deep balls? i don't know, and I really don't care what the actual percentage was. What matters in this discussion, is that D.Rob made an effort to go get passes in the vertical, and came down with some of them.

No one is asking MVS to be DHop/Diggs/J. Jefferson, etc. We all know he ain't that dude.

But he's 6'3" or whatever. and he's technically KC's WR2, so he's supposed to basically be the Chiefs equivalent of Mike Williams for LAC. Mike goes up in the air for footballs.

Just use your height/length when able, man, that's all. If not, then what makes him any different from Hardman at 5'11" or whatever? Not much, as far as I can tell.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

The point I've been making, is that Stone Hands at least tried. And came down with some balls in the process. I don't care about his completion rate in this argument, because he's a WR5. He's not supposed to come down with more balls than MVS, so who cares what his actual completion rate is? Plus, he's had four different QBs throwing to him this year, so who knows if he'd have caught more balls with just some continuity.

But MVS has had the same guy throwing balls to him, so he doesn't get that excuse.

And while we're at it, you know who came down with a lot of those type passes for Mahomes in the past? D. Robinson. Did he have a great catch rate on deep balls? i don't know, and I really don't care what the actual percentage was. What matters in this discussion, is that D.Rob made an effort to go get passes in the vertical, and came down with some of them.

No one is asking MVS to be DHop/Diggs/J. Jefferson, etc. We all know he ain't that dude.

But he's 6'3" or whatever. and he's technically KC's WR2, so he's supposed to basically be the Chiefs equivalent of Mike Williams for LAC. Mike goes up in the air for footballs.

Just use your height/length when able, man, that's all. If not, then what makes him any different from Hardman at 5'11" or whatever? Not much, as far as I can tell.

"I don't care what the data supports - I know what I know and MVS is jaking passes out there..."

Um...okay.

Guess there ain't much to talk about when you've made your decision, data be damned.

What you 'know' is that MVS is supposed to be our Mike Williams. So what you know is really remarkably wrong-headed. But you know it, so I guess you've got that going for you.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

"I don't care what the data supports - I know what I know and MVS is jaking passes out there..."

Um...okay.

Guess there ain't much to talk about when you've made your decision, data be damned.

What you 'know' is that MVS is supposed to be our Mike Williams. So what you know is really remarkably wrong-headed. But you know it, so I guess you've got that going for you.

Lolz, whatever, man. MVS is our 2, Skrowronek is a 5, but Ben will at least attack the football above his head.

And MVS isn't coming down with footballs a whole lot more often than Stone Hands. What is it, 6%? With more targets, more athleticism, and a much better QB.

You're right; I don't really have anything else to say on the matter. It's pretty simple.

[Chiefnj2]

MVS is not aggressive in going to the ball. It always seems like he's waiting for it to come into his chest. He's way too passive.

I think the top 5 players (if healthy) from 2018 edge out the top 5 from this year (if healthy)

TE: Kelce - push - Kelce
WR1: Hill > JuJu
WR2: Watkins > MVS
RB: Hunt > Pacheco
WR3: Conley < Hardman

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

44% success rate on downfield passes. Worse than MVS.

Average depth of target - 8.0 yards; a full 7 yards per target shorter than MVS.

Guys, you're asking unreasonable things here and providing non-applicable examples. Yes, there are times a WR can jump up and catch a pass. But what you're talking about is a downfield receiver in full gallop stopping his momentum, going straight up, turning his body and bringing the ball in.

It doesn't happen NEARLY as frequently as y'all seem to think it does. And it certainly isn't guys running routes way downfield that tend to do it.

We have 3 WR's in our division that can do it. 4 if you count Sutton, which imo, qualifies as well. We don't have to look far.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

We have 3 WR's in our division that can do it. 4 if you count Sutton, which imo, qualifies as well. We don't have to look far.

30% success rate on downfield passes. 2 drops on throws past 10 yards, same as MVS. Far fewer yards per route run. Worse success rate. He's undeniably a less effective downfield receiver than MVS.

Y'all just keep remembering the one time someone did something like that and "Hey, Courtland Sutton can do it!!"

So can MVS. He has. He doesn't do it with regularity because it simply doesn't get DONE with regularity. Sutton ain't doing it. Williams isn't. FFS, Demarcus Robinson sure as SHIT wasn't doing it.

What you're asking is for MVS to be a downfield threat AND JJSS. That ain't who he is. We specifically went out there and got 'niche' weapons instead of trying to find more jack of all trade players.

MVS, for what he does and what he's been ASKED to do, has been damn good at it here. But because he's not out there Mossing dudes on 40 yard throws downfield with regularity, you want to act like he's quitting on plays. He's not.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

30% success rate on downfield passes. 2 drops on throws past 10 yards, same as MVS. Far fewer yards per route run. Worse success rate. He's undeniably a less effective downfield receiver than MVS.

Y'all just keep remembering the one time someone did something like that and "Hey, Courtland Sutton can do it!!"

So can MVS. He has. He doesn't do it with regularity because it simply doesn't get DONE with regularity. Sutton ain't doing it. Williams isn't. FFS, Demarcus Robinson sure as SHIT wasn't doing it.

What you're asking is for MVS to be a downfield threat AND JJSS. That ain't who he is. We specifically went out there and got 'niche' weapons instead of trying to find more jack of all trade players.

MVS, for what he does and what he's been ASKED to do, has been damn good at it here. But because he's not out there Mossing dudes on 40 yard throws downfield with regularity, you want to act like he's quitting on plays. He's not.

Again, i'm high on MVS. I like MVS. I think he's the most capable WR on the roster outside of Toney.

I'm not asking MVS to be anything more than he is. Im also not in denial about what he isn't.

His hands are somewhat shaky, a reputation he's had long before KC, and has shown itself at times in KC, and he's not a particularly physical player.

No, i don't think he's "Quitting" on plays, and have never said that.

He he has some holes in his game. And that's fine. He's a nice #2. But he's not going to out jump someone. He's not gonna out position a guy, whether that be due to body control or strength. He's not gonna wrestle a 50/50 ball away from a DB. That's the part of his game that's missing.

And that's ok! Because we should be able to get a guy opposite of him that CAN.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Again, i'm high on MVS. I like MVS. I think he's the most capable WR on the roster outside of Toney.

I'm not asking MVS to be anything more than he is. Im also not in denial about what he isn't.

His hands are somewhat shaky, a reputation he's had long before KC, and has shown itself at times in KC, and he's not a particularly physical player.

No, i don't think he's "Quitting" on plays, and have never said that.

He he has some holes in his game. And that's fine. He's a nice #2. But he's not going to out jump someone. He's not gonna out position a guy, whether that be due to body control or strength. He's not gonna wrestle a 50/50 ball away from a DB. That's the part of his game that's missing.

And that's ok! Because we should be able to get a guy opposite of him that CAN.

Yeah - we're cool.

We (I?) were speaking past each other. My bad.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

30% success rate on downfield passes. 2 drops on throws past 10 yards, same as MVS. Far fewer yards per route run. Worse success rate. He's undeniably a less effective downfield receiver than MVS.

Y'all just keep remembering the one time someone did something like that and "Hey, Courtland Sutton can do it!!"

So can MVS. He has. He doesn't do it with regularity because it simply doesn't get DONE with regularity. Sutton ain't doing it. Williams isn't. FFS, Demarcus Robinson sure as SHIT wasn't doing it.

What you're asking is for MVS to be a downfield threat AND JJSS. That ain't who he is. We specifically went out there and got 'niche' weapons instead of trying to find more jack of all trade players.

MVS, for what he does and what he's been ASKED to do, has been damn good at it here. But because he's not out there Mossing dudes on 40 yard throws downfield with regularity, you want to act like he's quitting on plays. He's not.

I get if you want to argue for a specific type of WR. I just don’t understand your defense of Mvs. The guy is fast and can break open. Below average hands. Below average at getting to the ball. And he’s had 2 hall of fame QBs routinely miss him. In ways he didn’t miss hardman or tyreek. I’m not gonna bag on the guys character. I just don’t think he’s very good.