Let's Talk About Baltimore (AFC Championship)

[SHOWTIME]

Headed back to the AFC Championship Game!!!! Discuss.

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yeah, that's why it's so strange ya'll are here trying so hard to convince us the Ravens are amazing because of regular season MVPs and DVOA.... I would have guessed the bar was set higher for the franchise.

I get it for say Bengals fans, who went from one of the worst franchises ever to being in AFCCG/SBs, or Bills fans who spent 20 years looking up at Brady..... you go from 5-win seasons to the playoffs and you think the hard part is over and all playoff teams are basically the same.

Hell, we did it as Chiefs fans for decades.... "just get into the playoffs and anything can happen!"... and then demanding respect because they finally won a WC game.

I'd think a franchise who's had the full range of great regular season/one and done, Super Bowl victories, etc; wouldn't so loudly count their eggs before they're hatched.

The Chiefs have had incredible postseason success for the past few years. No one can take that from you.

But the regular season does matter in the NFL. It's not baseball or basketball. Teams are full go for at least 16 games. And the results matter in terms of how far you advance in the playoffs. I don't think it should be waved away so casually. Now if it's never paired with postseason success then fair play. But that book is yet unwritten if that's the intention with this Ravens team.

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Ravens let Lamar go try to get a deal elsewhere.

Yeah, they'd trade him for Josh Allen. In a second.

If you asked 100 Ravens fans if they would trade Lamar for Josh Allen they would say no. 100/100.

[O.city]

Sure. Fans are dumb.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

If you asked 100 Ravens fans if they would trade Lamar for Josh Allen they would say no. 100/100.

Even though Josh Allen has more than double the # of career playoff wins than Lamar?

[RINGLEADER]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

None of the evals you did here are unreasonable. But the problem with this back-of-the-napkin roster comparison is it doesn't take into consideration the degree of "better than" or "worse than." I would argue there are a few position groups here where the Ravens are significantly better than the Chiefs (LB and S) but not vice versa. And also, how/why are we saying the Chiefs are better at QB even though the Ravens have the MVP QB? Better at RB even though the Ravens have a higher Y/A and the highest yards per game in the NFL?

As you can tell from that analysis, you can argue this endlessly. Which is where something like DVOA would come in, because it's standardizing its evals and adjusting them based on situation. That gets laughed at here, but I'm not sure how else to try to be objective. I would mention PFF grades, but I imagine that will get an even more raucous response.

As to the Chiefs D, I think it's fair to point out that it's the best defense the Chiefs have fielded in the Mahomes era. But my question would be, is it a difference making defense?

You say the Ravens haven't played a tougher defense, but they played the Browns twice. And yet, when push came to shove in the playoffs, the Browns defense couldn't make a difference in their game against the Texans. I think it's worth nothing that the Ravens also play their own defense every single day.

I think the Chiefs' D has been competent all year. But without the benefit of a home crowd rattling the opposing offense, and when the other team is throwing the kitchen sink out on offense, is the Chiefs D a difference maker? Genuine question. Because as a Ravens fan, I've seen many "good" defenses. But there's a difference between ones that make a difference and can get a stop when needed and ones that look good on paper but don't rise to the occasion given the natural bias toward offenses.

A lot of words when it really comes down to the QB position. If Pat or Lamar play like crap then the other team likely wins.

Baltimore probably has a few more paths to overcoming bad QB play and Mahomes has to contend with the possibility of receivers dropping passes (not because it has ever been a problem in the playoffs, but because it’s something that happened earlier this year and is fresh on everyone’s minds as a liability), which is why the Ravens have a slight advantage, but our defense could absolutely derail the Baltimore offense because of the way we can play the passing game.

It will be a great game against two great teams. The Ravens have an impressive resume in the regular season but the playoff Chiefs are a whole other animal. If Pat plays well the Chiefs can absolutely hand the Ravens a loss.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

If you asked 100 Ravens fans if they would trade Lamar for Josh Allen they would say no. 100/100.

So your point is what exactly? Ravens fans are reeruned and don't know ball?

[RavensMania]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

None of the evals you did here are unreasonable. But the problem with this back-of-the-napkin roster comparison is it doesn't take into consideration the degree of "better than" or "worse than." I would argue there are a few position groups here where the Ravens are significantly better than the Chiefs (LB and S) but not vice versa. And also, how/why are we saying the Chiefs are better at QB even though the Ravens have the MVP QB? Better at RB even though the Ravens have a higher Y/A and the highest yards per game in the NFL?

As you can tell from that analysis, you can argue this endlessly. Which is where something like DVOA would come in, because it's standardizing its evals and adjusting them based on situation. That gets laughed at here, but I'm not sure how else to try to be objective. I would mention PFF grades, but I imagine that will get an even more raucous response.

As to the Chiefs D, I think it's fair to point out that it's the best defense the Chiefs have fielded in the Mahomes era. But my question would be, is it a difference making defense?

You say the Ravens haven't played a tougher defense, but they played the Browns twice. And yet, when push came to shove in the playoffs, the Browns defense couldn't make a difference in their game against the Texans. I think it's worth nothing that the Ravens also play their own defense every single day.

I think the Chiefs' D has been competent all year. But without the benefit of a home crowd rattling the opposing offense, and when the other team is throwing the kitchen sink out on offense, is the Chiefs D a difference maker? Genuine question. Because as a Ravens fan, I've seen many "good" defenses. But there's a difference between ones that make a difference and can get a stop when needed and ones that look good on paper but don't rise to the occasion given the natural bias toward offenses.

very well said....

come and visit purpleflock.com

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor

If we’re being honest. Burrow/Cinci are our only true rivals. Since Brady is gone they’re the only team that’s dropped an L on us in the playoffs.

We took Allen's best shot and beat them anyway in the 13 second game. We beat Burrow's best shot last season. We beat Hurts best shot last season. Herbert isn't in the discussion.

Nobody has ever taken Mahomes best shot and won the game. Just hasn't happened. Maybe the SB vs. TB because Mahomes was superhuman but nobody else showed up.

There isn't a 'rival' out there until they can stand up to our best effort and win occasionally. Buffalo can't, Cincy can't. Maybe it's Baltimore that proves they can this weekend.

Then a rivalry will exist. As it stands, it's just a bunch of teams hoping they have a good day and we don't so they can get past us.

[StalkRavenMad]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Your numbers are, well, wrong.

Kelce had 93 receptions for 984 and 5 TDs in 15 games.

Andrews did indeed have the numbers you quote.

If you pace those rates, Kelce averaged more catches and yards per game than Andrews.Andrews did have more touchdowns, though, so, congrats I guess?

I thought the added the 2 playoff games in so I subtracted thise stats.

[RINGLEADER]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

If you asked 100 Ravens fans if they would trade Lamar for Josh Allen they would say no. 100/100.

And if Lamar has another bad playoff game your forums will be filled with messages saying Lamar is not the guy.

[OneWinningDrive]

Originally Posted by O.city

Sure. Fans are dumb.

You think the coach and GM who built their entire offense around a guy for the past five years would dispose of him for a guy who is worse by almost every statistic? Based on what, exactly? Your eye test?

These hypothetical are ridiculous in the first place.

[RedinTexas]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

I think I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you need to bias the numbers to see how successful the Ravens have been.

They have the fourth most wins in the NFL since they've come into existence in 1996. Second most road playoff wins in NFL history after only the Cowboys/Packers who are tied. Two Super Bowls. 5 AFCCG appearances. These are numbers that hold up in absolute terms and not just based on percentages.

Yes, any claims that restrict comparisons to a particular time frame are biased because they are chosen to reflect well on one of the subjects of comparison. The Ravens have been very successful "in that time frame," but we can all pick our time frames. Since Patrick Mahomes became the starting QB in Kansas City, no other franchise in the NFL has been as successful as the Kansas City Chiefs, and it isn't even particularly close.

[KC_Lee]

Apologies if Q, but I think we can take these guys.

According to KMBC 9 in Kansas City, the Kansas City Chiefs will play the Olathe Northwest Ravens this Sunday 🤣🤣🤣 pic.twitter.com/EoAWcdvJ78

— Farzin Vousoughian (@Farzin21) January 24, 2024

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

But he had more TDs this year than Kelce had in 17 games. So he's definitely better.

Mark Andrews is a savant at the TE position though

[O.city]

Originally Posted by OneWinningDrive

You think the coach and GM who built their entire offense around a guy for the past five years would dispose of him for a guy who is worse by almost every statistic? Based on what, exactly? Your eye test?

These hypothetical are ridiculous in the first place.

The GM let said QB test the market to find a deal and potentially let him leavel.

So yeah, I think they'd trade him for a better player.