Chiefs Chiefs sticking with spread offense? - Page 7

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 08:55 AM

I am sick of talking about Hali and DJ fitting into the 3-4 and whether the Chiefs are going to draft an ILB, a RT or an injured WR.... so, why not bring up something that will make Mecca's head explode.

First, I am not saying the Chiefs will use the spread offense as extensively as they did last year.

However, if you watched the Cards under Haley last year, they used a ton of the spread.

And, if you watched the Pats, Cassel played his best from the shotgun in the spread offense.

For those of you who don't think the spread has much of a future in the NFL... much of what the Pats have run over the last two years has been based on the spread.

In fact, after further examination, I think Cassel and Thigpen's playing style is more similar than it is different. Cassel is clearly more polished and tended to make quicker better reads, and of course is two inches taller.

But, he was more comfortable in the shotgun, similar to Thigpen. He is also a scrambler, similar to Thigpen. And, he was the most comfortable using the spread formation, simialr to Thigpen.

Could the Chiefs have picked him up BECAUSE he will make a good spread QB?

Gailey and Haley are very similar in that they will not force the issue, they will do what their players do best. I think the spread will be a large part of the offensive package utilized in KC.

What I don't know is why the 'spread' has such a negative conotation. Teams have used versions of this in the NFL for a long time.

I have even come up with a name for the offense that I think we will see this year, the 'West Coast Spread'. I believe they will combine many of the pilosophies of the west coast sytem: Larger receivers, shorter passes, slants, etc. I think they will be a primarily zone running team. And, finally, I think that Cassel will see a larger part of the time in the shotgun spread formation.

Now, that I have laid out what I think will happen..... based on nothing more than what I think the talent on the team will be good at as well as what the coaches have done in the past.... you guys can flame me.

Yes... this is a stab in the dark. No, I am not an insider. But, frankly, I would rather get flamed on something new and interesting than continue to argue whether Hali can be an OLB or whether positional value should outweigh actual player evaluation.

StcChief · 03-10-2009, 12:37 PM

Cassell can plan Proset/Shotgun(spread).
Thiggy could learn proset ... sense he's #2 man....Just college QB that hasn't had to do it.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Footballoutsiders.com

All About the System

Between new GM Scott Pioli and new head coach Todd Haley, I'd say that Cassel is actually in the perfect environment to make a real go of it. In his time working with Bill Belichick in New England, Pioli got a front-row view of Cassel's strengths and weaknesses. And when he helped the Cardinals to the Super Bowl last year as Arizona's offensive coordinator, Haley ran an extremely productive attack with a lot of shotgun sets. This is where Cassel will thrive.

In 2008, Arizona quarterback Kurt Warner threw 598 regular-season passes. 412 of them were in a shotgun formation. That's 69.8 percent of his attempts, which would have been high for just about any other quarterback -- except for Cassel. Of Cassel's 516 attempts in 2008, 405 came from the shotgun -- an astonishing 78 percent. Both the Cardinals and Patriots are used to shotgun, three-wide sets with three receivers, and Kansas City's use of the Pistol formation, with quarterback Tyler Thigpen last season, gave tight end Tony Gonzalez unprecedented opportunities that he could very well see again.

There are times when players go from system to system and lose whatever it was that made them great. Matt Cassel is fortunate in that he's going to a system that perfectly fits what he's done before. He would have been a question mark in a power offense, but Kansas City will take to the air, and they have the right quarterback for the job.

Yeah, I wish it had mentioned more about his mobility and some other things... but it conveys the main part of my argument.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StcChief

Cassell can plan Proset/Shotgun(spread).
Thiggy could learn proset ... sense he's #2 man....Just college QB that hasn't had to do it.

Thats why most spread QB's end up being busts.. it takes a lot more to run a Pro Style offense than you think. Yeah sure he might learn it eventually... but it takes years making Thigpen a major project. He has a pretty average arm and isn't accurate so its a waste.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

the pats didn't get any cap relief from the vrabel trade???? was I misinformed???

No, Darth Carl was talking about the other guys we got...CJ Jones and the other guy giving the Pats roster room and cap space. It was in another thread.

The Pats got cap space in the trade for Vrabel and Cassel. They also didn't have to pay a million dollar roster bonus that was due to Vrabel. They saved nearly 20 million with both guys being traded.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Thats why most spread QB's end up being busts.. it takes a lot more to run a Pro Style offense than you think. Yeah sure he might learn it eventually... but it takes years making Thigpen a major project. He has a pretty average arm and isn't accurate so its a waste.

Oh on top of that Cassel learned from Brady and Belichick whereas Thigpen learned from Huard, Herm, and Curl. Cassel is 6'4" Thigpen is 6'1" Cassels arm is a little stronger and is more accurate. I personally would have rather had Stafford still, but outside mobility Cassel is better than Thigpen in every way.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

He was near the top before that game but hey keep trying.

LJ played five games before he was suspended. He was NOT leading the NFL in yards when he got suspended and it wasn't until after he was suspended that the Chiefs went to the spread.

He had 74 yards against NE, 22 against Oakland, 121 Against Atlanta, 198 against Denver, and 2 yards against Carolina. Or, an average of 83 yards a game. That was NOT leading the league. Subtract out the inflated stats against Denver, and he was averaging 55 yards a game.

But, he was suspended for the Titans game. And, the Chiefs started using the spread in the NY game, I believe... because Huard got hurt in the Titans game.

LJ's lack of production and subsequent absence are HUGE parts of why the Chiefs went to the spread.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Oh on top of that Cassel learned from Brady and Belichick whereas Thigpen learned from Huard, Herm, and Curl. Cassel is 6'4" Thigpen is 6'1" Cassels arm is a little stronger and is more accurate. I personally would have rather had Stafford still, but outside mobility Cassel is better than Thigpen in every way.

I think you are WAY off on your assertion that Cassel has a stronger arm. I think Thigpen's arm is stronger.

And, Thigpen at 6'1" is only an inch shorter than Stafford.

We agree in that we would both like to have Stafford. That said, I like Cassel because I think he is a very good fit.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I think you are WAY off on your assertion that Cassel has a stronger arm. I think Thigpen's arm is stronger.

And, Thigpen at 6'1" is only an inch shorter than Stafford.

We agree in that we would both like to have Stafford. That said, I like Cassel because I think he is a very good fit.

No way is Thigpens wobble launcher any stronger than Cassels.

keg in kc · 03-10-2009, 12:58 PM

Regardless of strength (although my vote would be Cassel there), Cassel is a good deal more accurate than Thigpen.

Sully · 03-10-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

They didn't run the spread option, but they did run the spread offense.

New England and Arizona didn't.
Kansas City, at times, did.

The shotgun does not = the spread.

RustShack · 03-10-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

New England and Arizona didn't.
Kansas City, at times, did.

The shotgun does not = the spread.

I giggle when people say the Patriots and Cardinals run the spread.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

No way is Thigpens wobble launcher any stronger than Cassels.

I still disagree. I think the difference is that Thigpen's fundamentals breakdown. That is where Cassel has the upper hand.

Most of the time, it will come down to fundamentals. And, on film, at times it looks like Thigpen's arm is weak because of a lack of fundamentals.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sully

New England and Arizona didn't.
Kansas City, at times, did.

The shotgun does not = the spread.

The spread does not equal the spread option. And, YES, both NE and Arizona DID run the spread offense.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Regardless of strength (although my vote would be Cassel there), Cassel is a good deal more accurate than Thigpen.

Comes down to fundamentals. But, I agree with you.

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-10-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

I giggle when people say the Patriots and Cardinals run the spread.

I laugh when people try to say they didn't. It is clear that they have a limited understanding of what the spread offense actually is. I laugh even harder at those ignorant people who think they are laughing at more informed people.

But, ignorance is bliss, so that must be why those people are giggling.

03-10-2009, 08:55 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	Chiefs sticking with spread offense? I am sick of talking about Hali and DJ fitting into the 3-4 and whether the Chiefs are going to draft an ILB, a RT or an injured WR.... so, why not bring up something that will make Mecca's head explode. First, I am not saying the Chiefs will use the spread offense as extensively as they did last year. However, if you watched the Cards under Haley last year, they used a ton of the spread. And, if you watched the Pats, Cassel played his best from the shotgun in the spread offense. For those of you who don't think the spread has much of a future in the NFL... much of what the Pats have run over the last two years has been based on the spread. In fact, after further examination, I think Cassel and Thigpen's playing style is more similar than it is different. Cassel is clearly more polished and tended to make quicker better reads, and of course is two inches taller. But, he was more comfortable in the shotgun, similar to Thigpen. He is also a scrambler, similar to Thigpen. And, he was the most comfortable using the spread formation, simialr to Thigpen. Could the Chiefs have picked him up BECAUSE he will make a good spread QB? Gailey and Haley are very similar in that they will not force the issue, they will do what their players do best. I think the spread will be a large part of the offensive package utilized in KC. What I don't know is why the 'spread' has such a negative conotation. Teams have used versions of this in the NFL for a long time. I have even come up with a name for the offense that I think we will see this year, the 'West Coast Spread'. I believe they will combine many of the pilosophies of the west coast sytem: Larger receivers, shorter passes, slants, etc. I think they will be a primarily zone running team. And, finally, I think that Cassel will see a larger part of the time in the shotgun spread formation. Now, that I have laid out what I think will happen..... based on nothing more than what I think the talent on the team will be good at as well as what the coaches have done in the past.... you guys can flame me. Yes... this is a stab in the dark. No, I am not an insider. But, frankly, I would rather get flamed on something new and interesting than continue to argue whether Hali can be an OLB or whether positional value should outweigh actual player evaluation.
Posts: 5,540

03-10-2009, 12:37 PM	#91
StcChief Playing for #1 Draft Pick Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Just West of Lambs land Casino cash: $10004900	Cassell can plan Proset/Shotgun(spread). Thiggy could learn proset ... sense he's #2 man....Just college QB that hasn't had to do it. __________________ sig test for this screwy schema
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03-10-2009, 12:58 PM	#99
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Regardless of strength (although my vote would be Cassel there), Cassel is a good deal more accurate than Thigpen.
Posts: 58,682