Chiefs If fully healthy, this could be the greatest offense we've ever watched - Page 8

dlphg9 · 01-09-2023, 01:27 PM

This is going to be exciting as **** if Hardman can play at full strength. The possibility of having Kelce, JJSS, McKinnon, Toney, and Hardman all on the field together and healthy for the 1st time is amazing. Add in a damn good RB in Pacheco and this could literally be the best offense that we've ever seen.

Imagine the shit Andy can come up with like Hardman and Toney in the backfield at the same time or McKinnon and Toney/Hardman in the backfield with Toney/Hardman potentially coming around for a jet sweep. Having JJSS as a more than competent receiving option this year and Hardman and Toney's speed is literally going to be an absolute nightmare for opposing teams.

I'm really excited for these playoff games, just gotta hope that everyone gets healed up over the next 2 weeks. HFA is huge.

So excited.

crispystl · 01-09-2023, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Using Toney the way they've used Hardman is a massive waste, IMO.

Use Toney as a true Z. He has the tools for it. Use MVS as an X in a DeSean Jackson mold.

Skyy/Hardman rotate at the Y depending on what you're looking for. And ultimately you draft another WR, ideally one with more size, to potentially step in for MVS in 2024.

I think you COULD use Toney like they've used Hardman, but I think you're better served, if the price is right, retaining Hardman and walking from JJSS.

I do too. I'd actually prefer to keep Hardman for a little cheaper. That speed is a bitch to deal with and he was playing really well before he got hurt.

JustDíqLix · 01-09-2023, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

Chiefs ended up being average defensively, and a supernova offensively. Feels right. https://t.co/4c7MLF4vs5
— Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) January 9, 2023

Interestingly enough, I looked at this same chart for the last 2 years and this red box seems to be the “Super Bowl” zone of the last couple years. Admittedly not perfect (I haphazardly drew the boxes on my phone) but interesting that the champs have come from this upper right quadrant.

2022 - this season

2021 - Rams Super Bowl champion

2020 - Bucs Super Bowl champion

DJ's left nut · 01-09-2023, 05:36 PM

Except that you're kinda ignoring where the decimal point is on that axis for the 2021 Rams (i.e. WELL behind where the Chiefs offense is this year) and the last time a team approached the Chiefs offensive efficiency was the 2020 Chiefs, who were also dead average on Defense and made the Super Bowl out of the AFC. The 2021 axis is so much 'shorter' than either 2020 or 2020 that it's barely worth referencing.

The 2020 Chiefs and 2022 Chiefs, OTOH are EXTREMELY similar animals. And I'm pretty sure we kicked y'alls ass in 2020, no? I distinctly recall a pouty little QB firing a football at someone who just dumped him in the backfield....again.

I'll go ahead and take my chances here...

dlphg9 · 01-09-2023, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDiqLix

Interestingly enough, I looked at this same chart for the last 2 years and this red box seems to be the “Super Bowl” zone of the last couple years.

2022 - this season

2021 - Rams Super Bowl champion

2020 - Bucs Super Bowl champion

That's such an incredibly small sample size that you can't come really come to any conclusion from it.

DJ's left nut · 01-09-2023, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlphg9

That's such an incredibly small sample size that you can't come really come to any conclusion from it.

When you scale the graph correctly you can conclude that the 2021 Rams were essentially the 2022 Jags.

Bills fans - good at dildos, bat at graphs.

JustDíqLix · 01-09-2023, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlphg9

That's such an incredibly small sample size that you can't come really come to any conclusion from it.

agreed

DJ's left nut · 01-09-2023, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDiqLix

agreed

Conclusion: the last time a league average defense was a standard deviation better than second place in the league on offense, it piss pounded the Bills in the playoff in its way to a conference championship.

DJ's left nut · 01-09-2023, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDiqLix

scaling the image doesn’t really matter, because the 2021 epa scale is different (but that’s all I could find for 2021) - Probably better to look at the actual decimal places

Yeah - so you should go ahead and give that a try then.

Hint: that extra zero AFTER the decimal in 2021 is pretty important.

JustDíqLix · 01-09-2023, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah - so you should go ahead and give that a try then.

Hint: that extra zero AFTER the decimal in 2021 is pretty important.

Again, that doesn’t really matter, because it’s relative for all teams.

You could make it 3,000,000 instead of .03 and as long as the same change is made relative for all teams the graph would still hold. The place on the map is really all that matters in that it shows good defense with good offense … good offense with bad defense …. bad defense with bad offense… etc.

RunKC · 01-09-2023, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah - but like I said in the Moore thread, I think they just missed.

They saw Pickens/Pierce/Moore as similarly talented prospects. Or they just didn't want to deal with Pickens potential attitude concerns.

I don't think that's a statement as to the type of player they were really looking for. I think they just got it wrong. But hell, maybe Moore steps into the Z role next year and makes me look like a dick.

But I don't think they're actively opposed to large, fast, talented WRs.

Very possible but I think you’ll be surprised with how much Hardman gets. A team with a rookie contract like Steelers, Giants, Panthers or Texans could easily see that as a need and with an influx of cash give him $15 million avg.

That’s…a little rich for me. Juju might get the same but you have to measure out who is more important.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-09-2023, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

30% success rate on downfield passes. 2 drops on throws past 10 yards, same as MVS. Far fewer yards per route run. Worse success rate. He's undeniably a less effective downfield receiver than MVS.

Y'all just keep remembering the one time someone did something like that and "Hey, Courtland Sutton can do it!!"

So can MVS. He has. He doesn't do it with regularity because it simply doesn't get DONE with regularity. Sutton ain't doing it. Williams isn't. FFS, Demarcus Robinson sure as SHIT wasn't doing it.

What you're asking is for MVS to be a downfield threat AND JJSS. That ain't who he is. We specifically went out there and got 'niche' weapons instead of trying to find more jack of all trade players.

MVS, for what he does and what he's been ASKED to do, has been damn good at it here. But because he's not out there Mossing dudes on 40 yard throws downfield with regularity, you want to act like he's quitting on plays. He's not.

I get if you want to argue for a specific type of WR. I just don’t understand your defense of Mvs. The guy is fast and can break open. Below average hands. Below average at getting to the ball. And he’s had 2 hall of fame QBs routinely miss him. In ways he didn’t miss hardman or tyreek. I’m not gonna bag on the guys character. I just don’t think he’s very good.

DJ's left nut · 01-09-2023, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustDiqLix

Again, that doesn’t really matter, because it’s relative for all teams.

You could make it 3,000,000 instead of .03 and as long as the same change is made relative for all teams the graph would still hold. The place on the map is really all that matters in that it shows good defense with good offense … good offense with bad defense …. bad defense with bad offense… etc.

It does matter because relative to the league the chiefs don't have a 'good' offense - they have a great one.

And last time that was the case, Josh had himself a little tantrum before he went home for the season.

DJ's left nut · 01-09-2023, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Very possible but I think you’ll be surprised with how much Hardman gets. A team with a rookie contract like Steelers, Giants, Panthers or Texans could easily see that as a need and with an influx of cash give him $15 million avg.

That’s…a little rich for me. Juju might get the same but you have to measure out who is more important.

Dude missed most of the year.

A 'prove it' deal seems most likely.

chiefzilla1501 · 01-09-2023, 06:02 PM

Still stand behind this….
We are moving very much in the right direction
Doing great during a supposed rebuild year
Our offense is good enough to carry us to a Super Bowl

No, I don’t believe this is close to the best offense we’ve assembled. This offense was one bad mahomes half away from an absurd playoff run last year. And the second half of this season looked great on paper but we’ve had plenty of struggles on offense. Two bad second halves vs Denver. Bad games vs Seattle and the rams. Great games on paper vs Tennessee and chargers, but they were big time battles.

We’re going to see some mammoth pass rushers in the playoffs. And some elite CBs. And we’re not gonna have the benefit of Bryce Perkins, Malik Willis or geno on the other side. And we’ve had harder slogs against tough physical defenses. I don’t think we’re close to there on any of those fronts.

Again, we’re in a great place but we can’t be close to content. We’ve still got some work to do.

Hammock Parties · 01-09-2023, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

We’re going to see some mammoth pass rushers in the playoffs. And some elite CBs.

way overblown

buffalo has nobody scary rushing the passer and no elite CBs

they just got torn up at home by MAC JONES

the chargers or jags? bosa on one leg and ????????????????

cincy has trey hendrickson, but no elite corners, that's our biggest challenge

i'm not scared of any AFC defense...and if we get to the super bowl, i definitely won't be scared of anyone

01-09-2023, 01:27 PM
dlphg9 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $-1600347	If fully healthy, this could be the greatest offense we've ever watched This is going to be exciting as **** if Hardman can play at full strength. The possibility of having Kelce, JJSS, McKinnon, Toney, and Hardman all on the field together and healthy for the 1st time is amazing. Add in a damn good RB in Pacheco and this could literally be the best offense that we've ever seen. Imagine the shit Andy can come up with like Hardman and Toney in the backfield at the same time or McKinnon and Toney/Hardman in the backfield with Toney/Hardman potentially coming around for a jet sweep. Having JJSS as a more than competent receiving option this year and Hardman and Toney's speed is literally going to be an absolute nightmare for opposing teams. I'm really excited for these playoff games, just gotta hope that everyone gets healed up over the next 2 weeks. HFA is huge. So excited.
Posts: 20,510

01-09-2023, 05:36 PM	#108
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-810901	Except that you're kinda ignoring where the decimal point is on that axis for the 2021 Rams (i.e. WELL behind where the Chiefs offense is this year) and the last time a team approached the Chiefs offensive efficiency was the 2020 Chiefs, who were also dead average on Defense and made the Super Bowl out of the AFC. The 2021 axis is so much 'shorter' than either 2020 or 2020 that it's barely worth referencing. The 2020 Chiefs and 2022 Chiefs, OTOH are EXTREMELY similar animals. And I'm pretty sure we kicked y'alls ass in 2020, no? I distinctly recall a pouty little QB firing a football at someone who just dumped him in the backfield....again. I'll go ahead and take my chances here... __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,833

01-09-2023, 06:02 PM	#119
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1725503	Still stand behind this…. We are moving very much in the right direction Doing great during a supposed rebuild year Our offense is good enough to carry us to a Super Bowl No, I don’t believe this is close to the best offense we’ve assembled. This offense was one bad mahomes half away from an absurd playoff run last year. And the second half of this season looked great on paper but we’ve had plenty of struggles on offense. Two bad second halves vs Denver. Bad games vs Seattle and the rams. Great games on paper vs Tennessee and chargers, but they were big time battles. We’re going to see some mammoth pass rushers in the playoffs. And some elite CBs. And we’re not gonna have the benefit of Bryce Perkins, Malik Willis or geno on the other side. And we’ve had harder slogs against tough physical defenses. I don’t think we’re close to there on any of those fronts. Again, we’re in a great place but we can’t be close to content. We’ve still got some work to do.
Posts: 51,650