Frank Clark fucking sucks

[dlphg9]

Clark has done a great job of sealing his edge and forcing runs back inside. No doubt about it that he’s really good at technique in run defense and has good core strength to hold up against good LTs. He’s actually better at it than I thought he would be.

My problem with Frank so far is he hasn’t shown the elite ability to punch, counter move, transition from speed to power or other pass rush moves a guy with his price tag should display consistently. If we’re being honest with ourselves, he’s consistently been pushed around as a pass rusher and been neutralized by single blocks every week.

I was far from a fan of the trade, but I understood (I was sold the reasoning) we were getting an elite run defender that could consistently create a pass rush, especially against elite LTs. We haven’t seen that yet and now we have additional injury concerns on top of that.

Lots of time to change my mind, but the early returns aren’t terribly different than I anticipated pre-trade.

I just hope when he returns that the dial is turned up a few notches.

If Mahomes, Clark, Jones and Fisher return with a fire in their bellies, this team can win a championship this year...but we need that from all 4. 3/4 wont be enough.

Clark is pretty good against tbr run, but I don't give a shit about that. I want my 4-3 DE to get to the QB. It's very easy to take a player out of a run play and negate his effect. It's not so easy to do that to a pass rusher.

[Megatron96]

Clark's numbers for the Raiders game:

3 rushes to his side when he was one the field for a total of 7 yards, excluding the scramble by Carr where he fumbled it as he tried to jump over everyone for the first. That's 2.33 yards/carry. After that play, the Raiders never ran at Clark again while he was on the field.

16 of the Raiders 19 rushing plays went away from Clark. The Raiders got 122 yards rushing up the middle, mostly in the A gap away from Clark and off tackle away from Clark.

Tackle for loss (-2 yards) on the second play of the fifth drive.

He was doubled-teamed 7 times.

He was in coverage 3 times. Four if you count the fake rush then attempt to bat the pass.

Chipped 5 times. Including the chip after he'd already been doubled but somehow managed to shed one of his blockers. Looks like the tackle or guard slipped.

Clark was on the field for 55 out of 64 Raiders offensive plays.

100% of Clark's snaps were on the right side of the DL, or over the left tackle.

He had a tackle for loss on a run play that was actually away from him (up the offside A-gap). Was actually a pretty play; he juked his blocker out of his shoes, slipped by and made the tackle. Think that was the 7th play of the first Raiders drive.

Side notes: Again, Spags brought Kpass into the middle of the DL a few times. Again, KPass got completely washed out a couple times by doubles. On another he ran himself into a double, and on another he tripped or something and went down.

Xavier Williams had an up and down day. On one play he didn't get any penetration, but he did end up making the tackle, but somehow he got behind Jacobs with his arms around his waist, and allowed himself to be dragged by Jacobs nearly 4 yards. Xavier is 310 lbs, and Jacobs is 220. Sometimes he fought off doubles fairly well, others he just got blown out.

I don't like saying negative things about a player, and it's not like Xavier had a terrible game, but he looked pretty soft on some of those running plays. Pillsbury Doughboy kind of soft. Like I said, it wasn't every play, not even most plays, but on several plays it didn't look very good.

Chris Jones didn't look bad at all. He had a couple plays where I couldn't figure out what he was doing in relation to everyone else on the DL, but overall I think he played pretty well. Some of those big runs where he was on the field happened when either Xavier or KPass or another guy was on the field with him. And they got washed out by a double or turned.

I could find only two plays where Chris really blew his responsibility. One was obviously just not recognizing that the RB had the ball. The other I'm not sure exactly what happened. He hustled his butt off the whole game though.

[kccrow]

Just re-watched every defensive snap in the Jags game (week 1). The Jags ran at Clark 7 times total for the game. Those runs went like this: -1, 3, 3, 0, 3, 1, 2.

Total rush yards toward the left tackle when Clark was on the field: 11 yards. That total isn't my math; it's brought to you by NFL.com. That's 1.57 yards/carry.

In that game Clark was lined up over the left tackle for 100% of plays he was on the field.

IIRC, Spags started moving him around, to the other end position, and in the middle during the Ravens game. So I'll have to re-watch the Raiders and the Ravens game defensive snaps to see what's what. But I'm betting that it'll be more of the same. When Clark is on the field, RBs don't get many yards in his direction.

P.S. Something else that became apparent was that Chris Jones wasn't the problem with our run defense up the middle most of the time (at least in that game, though he did get washed out of a couple plays by double teams). Some of the biggest gashes up the middle were when KPass (92) was lined up as a DT. KPass jumped into a double that opened a huge hole for 17 yards, and got completely washed out of another play for 14. On another run play when he was playing DT, he could've made the tackle, but he didn't see the RB until he was passing his right shoulder, and then it was too late.

That's fine. Just pointing out that our board mascot posted stats incorrectly. The end stats are more a function of outside linebacker and corner play against the run than the defensive end, but he also has the effect there. I posted that quote directly from their website.

[kccrow]

Now Frank Clark sucks against the run LMAO

No, you just don't comprehend what you read.

[saphojunkie]

That's fine. Just pointing out that our board mascot posted stats incorrectly. The end stats are more a function of outside linebacker and corner play against the run than the defensive end, but he also has the effect there. I posted that quote directly from their website.

Just let it go. Clark is good. Really good. He's already done things we haven't seen a Chiefs DE do in years. He's loads better than Ford.

The trade is the trade. It was a bad trade, and we can't fix that now. That should have nothing to do with his evaluation as a player. I think people confuse evaluation of our roster construction with evaluation of our roster. They're different things.

[kccrow]

Just let it go. Clark is good. Really good. He's already done things we haven't seen a Chiefs DE do in years. He's loads better than Ford.

He's not even close to really good. He's solid and a worthy starter, yet nowhere near worth his salary.

[staylor26]

He's not even close to really good. He's solid and a worthy starter, yet nowhere near worth his salary.

Gotta love how some of you pretend that 2016-2018 didn’t happen and he’s wasn’t one of the best edge rushers in the league over that span.

You want to say he hasn’t been they guy in KC 7 games in? That’s fine, but let’s not act like he hasn’t been consistently really good up until this year.

[ThaVirus]

Just let it go. Clark is good. Really good. He's already done things we haven't seen a Chiefs DE do in years. He's loads better than Ford.

The trade is the trade. It was a bad trade, and we can't fix that now. That should have nothing to do with his evaluation as a player. I think people confuse evaluation of our roster construction with evaluation of our roster. They're different things.

Whew! This is a reeeaach.

A gimpy Houston past his prime was holding his own against the run and providing more consistent pressure than this version of Clark.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Gotta love how some of you pretend that 2016-2018 didn’t happen and he’s wasn’t one of the best edge rushers in the league over that span.

You want to say he hasn’t been they guy in KC 7 games in? That’s fine, but let’s not act like he hasn’t been consistently really good up until this year.

Yet the Seahawks still were looking to trade him as soon as they realized what he wanted for a contract. That tells me they didnt think he is as good as we did and they were obviously right.

[staylor26]

Yet the Seahawks still were looking to trade him as soon as they realized what he wanted for a contract. That tells me they didnt think he is as good as we did and they were obviously right.

The Seahawks couldn’t afford him you stupid fuck. The Raiders did the same thing with Mack and they had way more money. Does that mean the Raiders didn’t think he was really good?

[-King-]

The Seahawks couldn’t afford him you stupid fuck. The Raiders did the same thing with Mack and they had way more money. Does that mean the Raiders didn’t think he was really good?

You want to be Dane so bad.

[The Franchise]

He's not even close to really good. He's solid and a worthy starter, yet nowhere near worth his salary.

Tends to happen in the NFL with the way contracts are now.

Do you think that if Mahomes gets $250 million that he’ll be worth his contract if he doesn’t win a Super Bowl every year? He’d have to what....throw for 5000 yards and 50 TDs every year to be worth that much money.

[RunKC]

“He’s not worth the money!”

No shit. Neither was Justin Houston. Neither was Von Miller. Neither was JJ Watt.

Aaron Donald is the only defensive player I can think of worth top money in the entire league.

-and no Khalil Mack has not been worth his contract-

[-King-]

“He’s not worth the money!”

No shit. Neither was Justin Houston. Neither was Von Miller. Neither was JJ Watt.

Aaron Donald is the only defensive player I can think of worth top money in the entire league.

-and no Khalil Mack has not been worth his contract-

Sure but the players you listed are giving a better ROI than Clark so far.

[kccrow]

Gotta love how some of you pretend that 2016-2018 didn’t happen and he’s wasn’t one of the best edge rushers in the league over that span.

You want to say he hasn’t been they guy in KC 7 games in? That’s fine, but let’s not act like he hasn’t been consistently really good up until this year.

One of the top 20? Sure. One of the best, as in one of the first 5 someone should rattle off? Absolutely not. He's been Dee Ford in this league to date, and that's not a joke.

[PAChiefsGuy]

The Seahawks couldn’t afford him you stupid ****. The Raiders did the same thing with Mack and they had way more money. Does that mean the Raiders didn’t think he was really good?

Hey dumbass if the Seahawks really wanted him they would have figured out a way to manipulate the cap to keep him.

Thank God you arent the GM of the Chiefs. You'd be getting raped w trades on a weekly basis.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

kcoldcrow

[staylor26]

One of the top 20? Sure. One of the best, as in one of the first 5 someone should rattle off? Absolutely not. He's been Dee Ford in this league to date, and that's not a joke.

Top 20? :facepalm:

He had 32 sacks over that span while also being a damn good run defender. If he wasn’t top 5 (he was) he was just outside of it.

Get a fucking clue.

[kccrow]

I know man, truth hurts. He sets the edge a bit better against the run but is statistically on par with Ford. We traded top picks and handed a guy a bigger contract for what amounts to the same guy. I don't like Veach much as a GM so far and this move was by far his dumbest.

[kccrow]

Top 20? :facepalm:

He had 32 sacks over that span while also being a damn good run defender. If he wasn’t top 5 (he was) he was just outside of it.

Get a fucking clue.

I think you need to do some research and let me know what guys he beats out in the top 5.

[staylor26]

Hey dumbass if the Seahawks really wanted him they would have figured out a way to manipulate the cap to keep him.

Thank God you arent the GM of the Chiefs. You'd be getting raped w trades on a weekly basis.

I didn’t even approve of the compensation dumbass. I’m just sick of the revisionist history. Frank Clark was a fucking beast before he came to KC.

[staylor26]

I think you need to do some research.

The irony.

His numbers over that span are comparable to Mack.

Looks like you need to do some research you fucking moron.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

You want to be Dane so bad.

No one wants to be Dane.

If they do/did, I sure as hell don’t understand why.

[staylor26]

No one wants to be Dane.

If they do/did, I sure as hell don’t understand why.

I say fuck a lot so I guess that means I want to be Dane?

[kccrow]

The irony.

His numbers over that span are comparable to Mack.

Looks like you need to do some research you fucking moron.

The only fucking moron here is you. He was 9th in sacks and 14th in tackles amongst the top 22 qualified defensive lineman in that span. Unlike you, I don't always open my mouth without knowing what I'm talking about. If you look at only the past 2 years, once Garrett and Watt came into the league, he drops to 9th and 18th. He's not in the top 5 moron. Period.

Here's the list I qualified for the research:

Chandler Jones
Aaron Donald
Von Miller
Ryan Kerrigan
Khalil Mack
Danielle Hunter
Calais Cambell
Cameron Jordan
Frank Clark
Mario Addison
Yannick Ngakoue
Joey Bosa
Everson Griffin
Demarcus Lawrence
Melvin Ingram
Dee Ford
Chris Jones
Justin Houston
Myles Garrett
TJ Watt
Ezekiel Ansah
JJ Watt

[kccrow]

And just a note, I'd put Clark around 12th in the NFL if he can return to form.

I have him behind:
Chandler Jones
Aaron Donald
Von Miller
Ryan Kerrigan
Khalil Mack
Danielle Hunter
Calais Cambell
Cameron Jordan
Joey Bosa
Myles Garrett
TJ Watt

But he's quickly losing traction to Z'Darius Smith who played well once he became a starter in Baltimore last year and hasn't slowed down as a starter in Green Bay, and rookies Josh Allen and Nick Bosa.

If he keeps up his current play, he's not even touching the top 20 and would be lucky if I put him in the top 30. Ogbah has been the best defensive lineman in KC this season and by a wide margin.

[staylor26]

The only fucking moron here is you. He was 9th in sacks and 14th in tackles amongst the top 22 qualified defensive lineman in that span. Unlike you, I don't always open my mouth without knowing what I'm talking about. If you look at only the past 2 years, once Garrett and Watt came into the league, he drops to 9th and 18th. He's not in the top 5 moron. Period.

Here's the list I qualified for the research:

Chandler Jones
Aaron Donald
Von Miller
Ryan Kerrigan
Khalil Mack
Danielle Hunter
Calais Cambell
Cameron Jordan
Frank Clark
Mario Addison
Yannick Ngakoue
Joey Bosa
Everson Griffin
Demarcus Lawrence
Melvin Ingram
Dee Ford
Chris Jones
Justin Houston
Myles Garrett
TJ Watt
Ezekiel Ansah
JJ Watt

Why are you including interior pass rushers? I’m clearly talking about edge rushers specifically. I’m pretty fucking sure he’s right around the top 5 in sacks among DE/OLB’s in that span, which is what I claimed.

Besides, you said maybe top 20 over that span when the guy was at least in the top 7 in terms of production. That’s way fucking off dude. You also compared him to a one dimensional player in Ford which made your take sound even more dumb.

And I didn’t say he’s currently top 5 moron. I was talking about his production from 2016-2018 and idiots like you pretending he wasn’t “really good” over that span.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Why are you including interior pass rushers? I’m clearly talking about edge rushers specifically. I’m pretty ****ing sure he’s right around the top 5 in sacks among DE/OLB’s in that span.

You said top 20 over that span when the guy was at least in the top 7 in terms of production. You also compared him to a one dimensional player in Ford which made your take sound even more dumb.

You are definitely one of the dumbest posters on this board and that is saying something.

[staylor26]

You are definitely one of the dumbest posters on this board and that is saying something.

Says arguably THE dumbest mother fucker on this board.

Show me where I’m wrong or shut the fuck up.

[kccrow]

Why are you including interior pass rushers? I’m clearly talking about edge rushers specifically. I’m pretty fucking sure he’s right around the top 5 in sacks among DE/OLB’s in that span, which is what I claimed.

Besides, you said top 20 over that span when the guy was at least in the top 7 in terms of production. That’s way fucking off dude. You also compared him to a one dimensional player in Ford which made your take sound even more dumb.

Who on that list is an interior pass rusher? The big dudes play 3-4 or 4-3 DE in their respective systems and there are like 3 of total with one eclipsing your boy. You can't come to terms with being fucking wrong, and you're definitely fucking wrong.

Sacks aren't the only statistic and had it not been for Bosa's injury he'd be at 10th. If not for Watt, he'd be 11th in that category alone. He'd be 16th in tackles. The story here is that he's more like the 14th or 15th best guy now IF he returns to form. He's not top 7 even in the category you want to throw him into. Fuck dude, can't even admit to being wrong when the stats slap you in the face but I'm sure you didn't bother to verify them.

In terms of tackles and sacks per game, he's only a bit above Dee Ford in the span you gave. If you projected their per game statistics to 16 games over that span, Ford would be at 46 tackles and 10.8 sacks and Clark at 52 tackles and 13.8 sacks.

[kccrow]

Here dude...

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

I don't like Veach much as a GM so far and this move was by far his dumbest.

If you think we're having fun now, just wait until he has no money to piss away after paying Mahomes.

That little man in the big shoes is going to turn this roster in to a heap big bag o' dicks, I guarantee it.

[staylor26]

Who on that list is an interior pass rusher? The big dudes play 3-4 or 4-3 DE in their respective systems and there are like 3 of total with one eclipsing your boy. You can't come to terms with being fucking wrong, and you're definitely fucking wrong.

Sacks aren't the only statistic and had it not been for Bosa's injury he'd be at 10th. If not for Watt, he'd be 11th in that category alone. He'd be 16th in tackles. The story here is that he's more like the 14th or 15th best guy now IF he returns to form. He's not top 7 even in the category you want to throw him into. Fuck dude, can't even admit to being wrong when the stats slap you in the face but I'm sure you didn't bother to verify them.

In terms of tackles and sacks per game, he's only a bit above Dee Ford in the span you gave. If you projected their per game statistics to 16 games over that span, Ford would be at 46 tackles and 10.8 sacks and Clark at 52 tackles and 13.8 sacks.

Is that a serious question? Aaron Donald and Calais Campbell do not play the same position as Clark and though Campbell moved to 4-3 DE in Jax he still does most of his pass rush work on the interior. These are totally different players with different size and skill set.

My initial point was that among DE/OLB’s (edge rushers) Clark was in or just outside the top 5. When you take away those 2 I listed that do most of their pass rush work in the interior, he’s top 7. So how the fuck am I “definitely wrong”?

And stop ignoring that you said he was at best top 20 over that span. 7, or even 9, is a lot closer to fucking 5 than it is 20. In what way does that make me wrong and you right? Are you fucking delusional?

[kccrow]

If you think we're having fun now, just wait until he has no money to piss away after paying Mahomes.

That little man in the big shoes is going to turn this roster in to a heap big bag o' dicks, I guarantee it.

Oh I agree. If he doesn't stop wasting top draft picks it's going to get ugly quick. Retaining Houston or paying Ford and retaining those picks was the better move. I hated this whole ordeal from the start. I was much more on board with retaining Houston and drafting a replacement pass rusher, and we'd still have a 1st or 2nd round pick to work with and less money on the books. It is what it is now. I'm just hopeful that Clark returns to what he was or this deal is going to look way worse than it already does.

[kccrow]

Is that a serious question? Aaron Donald and Calais Campbell do not play the same position as Clark and though Campbell moved to 4-3 DE in Jax he still does most of his pass rusher work on the interior. These are totally different players with different size and skill set.

My initial point was that among DE/OLB’s (edge rushers) Clark was in OT just outside the top 5. When you take away those 2 I listed that do most of their pass rush work in the interior, he’s top 7. So how the fuck am I “definitely wrong”?

And stop ignoring that you said he was at best top 20 over that span. 7, or even 9, is a lot closer to fucking 5 than it is 20. In what way does that make me wrong and you right? Are you fucking delusional?

I don't care where a guy lines up, a pass rusher is a pass rusher. Campbell spends a good bulk of his time at end. Dareus, Bryan, and Jones have been their primary interior guys. Clark has continued to fall down the ladder the past couple of seasons and the trend continues. He's a top 20 rusher, that point remains. He was just inside the top 10 because of injuries to better players in that span. It doesn't make a difference where in the top-20 range he is, does it? I'd concede he was on the edge of the top 10 but he's not even close now. He's been falling closer to 20 as time goes rather than moving up to his 5th ranked overall salary amongst these players. This year, you'd have a hard time arguing he's in the top 30, which is pathetic given his pay rate. I don't expect him to be top 5 just because of his salary, but he should never have been top 5 to begin with. He doesn't suck, but he's nowhere near the player people here made him to be and continue to make him to be versus the run. He's not anywhere near on par with guys like Jordan, Campbell, Mack, Miller, Bosa, Hunter, Houston, and the Watts. He's more like guys like Ford, Kerrigan, Addison, and Griffen.

[RunKC]

I love it how king pussy and the rest of the hindsight brigade criticize Frank Clark not living up to his billing and saying they want the previously employed pass rusher who didn’t live up to his fucking mega contract years prior.

You criticize Frank Clark? Fine. You don’t like the compensation? Cool neither do I or anyone else.

But for fucks sake. Houston was a 30 year old pass rusher with a damaged knee that didn’t have double digit sacks in ANY of his years on that mega contract. He wasn’t an elite pass rusher since his 2014 contract year.

You think the Chiefs didn’t want the motherfucker back? He refused to restructure his deal. Here let me repeat that:

He refused to take a pay cut and restructure his deal.



General manager Brett Veach said at the combine "there's a lot of dialogue" in the trade conversations for Houston. The news isn't overly surprising, as the veteran defensive end is due $15.25 million and will count $21.1 million against the salary cap in 2019. Those salary figures -- and his refusal to restructure -- make a trade difficult, so the team may have to decide whether to cut him to save costs.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/chiefs-justin-houston-available-for-trade/amp/

The guy had a $21.1 million cap hit this year but the market told him he was worth less than 60% of that money.

But hey go ahead and keep bleeding all over the board everyday about it. What do you want to bring up next? That we passed on Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson?

[kccrow]

Well, hey Run, you got a guy for 0.3 million less and cost multiple early draft picks instead, who is playing worse, so there is that. Woohoo. Was Clark at the time of the trade worth more than Houston? Yes. Was it worth the deal to cut Houston and trade for a marginally better Clark then? No. Is it worth it now? Hell no. The Chiefs could have and should have retained Houston and drafted a pass rusher and kept this year's extra 2nd round pick. They should have did it then and many, including myself, said that. It's not a hindsight ordeal. If we look in hindsight, they definitely should have done exactly that and it's not even close.

[-King-]

I love it how king pussy and the rest of the hindsight brigade criticize Frank Clark not living up to his billing and saying they want the previously employed pass rusher who didn’t live up to his fucking mega contract years prior.

You criticize Frank Clark? Fine. You don’t like the compensation? Cool neither do I or anyone else.

But for fucks sake. Houston was a 30 year old pass rusher with a damaged knee that didn’t have double digit sacks in ANY of his years on that mega contract. He wasn’t an elite pass rusher since his 2014 contract year.

You think the Chiefs didn’t want the motherfucker back? He refused to restructure his deal. Here let me repeat that:

He refused to take a pay cut and restructure his deal.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/chiefs-justin-houston-available-for-trade/amp/

The guy had a $21.1 million cap hit this year but the market told him he was worth less than 60% of that money.

But hey go ahead and keep bleeding all over the board everyday about it. What do you want to bring up next? That we passed on Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson?

Justin Houston + 1st round pick + 2nd round pick + Millions of dollars saved >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Frank Clark

Its not that hard of a concept

And this season, Houston has more tackles, more sacks, more pressures, more QB hits, and more Tackles for loss.

So yeah, Id rather have that plus the picks and the money. Not even a contest.

And the restructure was going to be part of a paycut. Of course he would turn that down.

https://247sports.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/Article/Justin-Houston-unlikely-to-return-Kansas-City-Chiefs-129358146/

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Well, hey Run, you got a guy for 0.3 million less and cost multiple early draft picks instead, who is playing worse, so there is that. Woohoo. Was Clark at the time of the trade worth more than Houston? Yes. Was it worth the deal to cut Houston and trade for a marginally better Clark then? No. Is it worth it now? Hell no. The Chiefs could have and should have retained Houston and drafted a pass rusher and kept this year's extra 2nd round pick. They should have did it then and many, including myself, said that. It's not a hindsight ordeal. If we look in hindsight, they definitely should have done exactly that and it's not even close.

Houston was mailing it in and had a bug up his ass for his little buddy Haglund. He can say whatever after the fact, but I don't think he wanted to be here anymore.

[RunKC]

Well, hey Run, you got a guy for 0.3 million less and cost multiple early draft picks instead, who is playing worse, so there is that. Woohoo. Was Clark at the time of the trade worth more than Houston? Yes. Was it worth the deal to cut Houston and trade for a marginally better Clark then? No. Is it worth it now? Hell no. The Chiefs could have and should have retained Houston and drafted a pass rusher and kept this year's extra 2nd round pick. They should have did it then and many, including myself, said that. It's not a hindsight ordeal. If we look in hindsight, they definitely should have done exactly that and it's not even close.

Frank Clark looked like a younger Justin Houston in Seattle, a complete player, plus he was not missing games frequently like Houston.

No I did not like the compensation given up for him, but letting Justin Houston and Dee Ford go were the right moves.

Frank Clark was better than Justin Houston the last 3 years from ‘16-18. He was healthier, more productive and he’s younger.

Yes I know Justin Houston has looked damn good and has not missed a game yet for Indy. He’s on pace for double-digit sacks and playing a full season.

He wasn’t that good and/or healthy in any of the last 4 seasons here once he got paid.

Did I mentioned that Frank Clark hasn’t had young players motivating him to get off his ass and make a play.

[-King-]

Frank Clark looked like a younger Justin Houston in Seattle, a complete player, plus he was not missing games frequently like Houston.

No I did not like the compensation given up for him, but letting Justin Houston and Dee Ford go were the right moves.

Frank Clark was better than Justin Houston the last 3 years from ‘16-18. He was healthier, more productive and he’s younger.

Yes I know Justin Houston has looked damn good and has not missed a game yet for Indy. He’s on pace for double-digit sacks and playing a full season.

He wasn’t that good and/or healthy in any of the last 4 seasons here once he got paid.

Did I mentioned that Frank Clark hasn’t had young players motivating him to get off his ass and make a play.

Maybe he needs that so that he gets on more than a 6 sack season pace. Justin Hamilton still available?

[ThaVirus]

Having that 1st and 2nd rounder would be huge. Could use those on a high level OG, CB, or ILB.

[RunKC]

Having that 1st and 2nd rounder would be huge. Could use those on a high level OG, CB, or ILB.

This team was an offsides away from getting to the Super Bowl and changed their scheme on defense. They were trying to win it all this year and cutting Houston enabled them the cap space to get both Frank Clark and Honey Badger. It was actually $1 million more than the 2019 cap hits of Clark, HB and Okafor, so it basically paid for all 3 of them.

This board has been saying to strike while Pat is cheap. Well that’s what they did..

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Says he's Ford....posts a stat showing he's worth 3 sacks more a year and he plays elite run defense, compared to Ford who was a liability. This board is so full of people who think they know football, but don't know shit. Go back to draft planet and play fake GM.

[Megatron96]

Stupid. It’s been 8 weeks. Can’t know what his value is until the contract is complete. Same with any player.

[TEX]

Houston was mailing it in and had a bug up his ass for his little buddy Haglund. He can say whatever after the fact, but I don't think he wanted to be here anymore.

TRUTH! That's why he had to go regardless of any other reason. KC NEVER would have gotten the Justin Houston who is playing for the Colts this season.

[ThaVirus]

This team was an offsides away from getting to the Super Bowl and changed their scheme on defense. They were trying to win it all this year and cutting Houston enabled them the cap space to get both Frank Clark and Honey Badger. It was actually $1 million more than the 2019 cap hits of Clark, HB and Okafor, so it basically paid for all 3 of them.

This board has been saying to strike while Pat is cheap. Well that’s what they did..

I was never a fan of this offseason. We were an offsides away from the Super Bowl, so we tried to completely rebuild the defense? Seemed like overkill. We retained only like three defensive starters from that SB-caliber squad.. not that the defense was particularly good but they had good elements. Seemed to me we could have used a retooling and coaching change over a full-on rebuild.

Time will tell if it was the right choice but I'm skeptical.

[Yosef_Malkovitch]

I'm not a fan of the way Clark has performed so far, but letting Houston and Ford walk was the right call. I guess in hindsight it may have been better to let them walk *and* not trade for Clark, but maybe that will end up being wrong. Maybe Clark will step up.

Regardless, I do not regret letting Houston and Ford go. That won't change whether Clark works out or not.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Stupid. It’s been 8 weeks. Can’t know what his value is until the contract is complete. Same with any player.

:clap:

[O.city]

I was never a fan of this offseason. We were an offsides away from the Super Bowl, so we tried to completely rebuild the defense? Seemed like overkill. We retained only like three defensive starters from that SB-caliber squad.. not that the defense was particularly good but they had good elements. Seemed to me we could have used a retooling and coaching change over a full-on rebuild.

Time will tell if it was the right choice but I'm skeptical.

I think it was smart to get away from the 34, it’s just hard to find guys to fit that anymore

They do all the sub package and stuff anymore anyway that’s it’s all about versatility

[staylor26]

I was never a fan of this offseason. We were an offsides away from the Super Bowl, so we tried to completely rebuild the defense? Seemed like overkill. We retained only like three defensive starters from that SB-caliber squad.. not that the defense was particularly good but they had good elements. Seemed to me we could have used a retooling and coaching change over a full-on rebuild.

Time will tell if it was the right choice but I'm skeptical.

:facepalm:

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Such terrible takes in this thread...embarrassing

[kccrow]

Says he's Ford....posts a stat showing he's worth 3 sacks more a year and he plays elite run defense, compared to Ford who was a liability. This board is so full of people who think they know football, but don't know shit. Go back to draft planet and play fake GM.

As I stated, the stats are carried out as averages over 3 years to a full single season. Fact is, Clark has never had as many sacks in a single season as Ford has and has never reached the 13.8 in that projection. I was being diligent in projecting since Ford missed significant time in one of those seasons. I even posted the individual season statistics. You're a fucking idiot of enormous proportions and prove you can't read anything beyond a tweet with regularly.

[staylor26]

What the fuck are you talking about? Clark and Ford both had 13 sacks in their best season.

dO YoUr ReSeArCh

[kccrow]

Such terrible takes in this thread...embarrassing

The only things that are terrible are Frank Clark in his current state and the obsession with making him out to be better than he ever was. He's not all world against the run. He's marginally better than Dee Ford who had developed into a guy who was doing a solid job of setting the edge in 2018. Had Ford not been injured in 2017, I'm not so sure we could say Clark was marginally more consistent at getting to the QB. So was it worth the extra 4 million per year? What I'm seeing is no and I didn't think so then.

I thought Houston had some issues but the guy was still more productive on a per-game basis than Clark over those 3 years and especially so against the run. Sure, injuries were an issue so I get that part of it, but was it really worth giving up on the guy to sign a lesser player? I don't know about that. I was on board with keeping one of Houston or Ford. Maybe Houston wanted out, but I have very large doubts about that and anyone saying it is using pure conjecture.

I certainly hope Clark returns to the guy he was in Seattle, but to date it really looks doubtful. That's a problem because right now you're looking at the future and the need to bring in pass rushers while having another huge contract to eat. Veach's biggest free-agent spends on defense have been trash here and we're stuck with them at least through next year.

[staylor26]

Now Clark is “marginally” better than Ford against the run? LMAO

Ford’s so bad against the run that the 49ers gave up a 2nd round pick and big contract for him and STILL choose to use him as a situational pass rusher. One guy is good and the other is below average. How the fuck is that marginal?

You really don’t have a fucking clue dude.

[kccrow]

What the fuck are you talking about? Clark and Ford both had 13 sacks in their best season.

dO YoUr ReSeArCh

Yay, the resident idiots are starting read! I meant to say never had more sacks and never as many tackles in a season, but that's moot at this point. Clark was never better than Ford at getting to the QB. Clark and Ford put up identical sacks in 2018 and 2016. Ford was injured in 2017 for 10 games, so we can't compare. So explain to me how Clark was better again?

[staylor26]

Yay, the resident idiots are starting read! I meant to say never had more sacks and never as many tackles in a season, but that's moot at this point. Clark was never better than Ford at getting to the QB. Clark and Ford put up identical sacks in 2018 and 2016. Ford was injured in 2017 for 10 games, so we can't compare. So explain to me how Clark was better again?

I just did in the post above. The fact that you think it’s debatable is hilarious because even people that hated the Clark trade know that Clark was the better player over those 3 years. You’re literally the only person I’ve heard that thinks otherwise.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Staylor there is a reason he's called kc old crow

[Chris Meck]

Yay, the resident idiots are starting read! I meant to say never had more sacks and never as many tackles in a season, but that's moot at this point. Clark was never better than Ford at getting to the QB. Clark and Ford put up identical sacks in 2018 and 2016. Ford was injured in 2017 for 10 games, so we can't compare. So explain to me how Clark was better again?

uhhh....well....uhhhh....how about the fact that prior to right now, he was actually available to play most of the time?

You guys are just talking around in circles.

Nobody would say that so far this signing has turned out great.

But if you're trying to argue that Ford is a better player than Clark has been to this point, you're nuts.

Ford has been an injury problem, and is shite against the run.

Clark has been a better all around player. It's not really not up for debate. He's also been on the field much more often.

Ford is a situational pass rusher; and San Fran uses him as such even now.

Just stop.

Now, has Clark produced here? No. Hopefully he gets healthy and does.

If not, well, hindsight is 20/20.

it was a lot to give up to get him and he hasn't produced yet.

But quit trying to say Ford is better.

[staylor26]

kccrow was not a fan of the 2019 draft. Pretty sure he ripped it.

He doesn’t have a fucking clue.

[RunKC]

The only things that are terrible are Frank Clark in his current state and the obsession with making him out to be better than he ever was. He's not all world against the run. He's marginally better than Dee Ford who had developed into a guy who was doing a solid job of setting the edge in 2018.

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[JakeF]

fuck that worthless piece of shit

[kccrow]

Now Clark is “marginally” better than Ford against the run? LMAO

Ford’s so bad against the run that the 49ers gave up a 2nd round pick and big contract for him and STILL choose to use him as a situational pass rusher. One guy is good and the other is below average. How the fuck is that marginal?

You really don’t have a fucking clue dude.

Dude, why do you act like Frank Clark is so good against the run? It's the entire reason he was snubbed for the Pro-Bowl last year. Seattle's run defense wasn't all that good either and gave up 4.9 per carry (tied for 27th in the NFL with only the Chiefs and Rams being worse). You act as though he's on the level of guys like Jordan and Hunter and so forth. He's not even close. He's okay and I have no real issues with his run defense, but he's not some world-beater like you envision him. You can run at Frank Clark and the league has so far. I sure hope he turns it around and plays at least back to the level he was at in Seattle where he's not a liability against the run and he's a guy you can have comfort in saying should be in the top 15-20 pass rushers in the league which is where he left off.

[kccrow]

uhhh....well....uhhhh....how about the fact that prior to right now, he was actually available to play most of the time?

You guys are just talking around in circles.

Nobody would say that so far this signing has turned out great.

But if you're trying to argue that Ford is a better player than Clark has been to this point, you're nuts.

Ford has been an injury problem, and is shite against the run.

Clark has been a better all around player. It's not really not up for debate. He's also been on the field much more often.

Ford is a situational pass rusher; and San Fran uses him as such even now.

Just stop.

Now, has Clark produced here? No. Hopefully he gets healthy and does.

If not, well, hindsight is 20/20.

it was a lot to give up to get him and he hasn't produced yet.

But quit trying to say Ford is better.

Did I say Ford was better? I said I don't think there's much difference between the two with Clark being a bit better against the run. Ford in 2018 was every bit as good as Clark has been, but everyone's judgment is clouded by his stupid offsides penalty. Ford played really well that year, including against the run. He was holding his lane and crashing down the line when he got a free release to make plays in the backfield. I don't even know if that's debatable. It took alot longer for Ford to play to that level and has never been as consistent as Clark in that regard. Clark isn't the world's best run defender either, but yes he's been more consistent there. As a pass rusher? Same guy. The Chiefs paid a king's ransom to get a marginally better football player who has so far sucked complete ass.

As for injury, most defensive lineman get hurt at one point or another. Ford got his. I don't give much shits about that, it happens. If it becomes a trend where a guy starts missing alot of time repeatedly for similar injuries, then that's a bigger issue. It's a reason letting Houston go makes a bit more sense.

Speaking of Houston, you look at the Texans and the JJ Watt situation, and you have to start wondering if it's worth it anymore. The guy is the best in the NFL but hasn't really been available 3 out of 4 years. It starts to pile up.

[Willie Lanier]

Dude, why do you act like Frank Clark is so good against the run? It's the entire reason he was snubbed for the Pro-Bowl last year. Seattle's run defense wasn't all that good either and gave up 4.9 per carry (tied for 27th in the NFL with only the Chiefs and Rams being worse). You act as though he's on the level of guys like Jordan and Hunter and so forth. He's not even close. He's okay and I have no real issues with his run defense, but he's not some world-beater like you envision him. You can run at Frank Clark and the league has so far. I sure hope he turns it around and plays at least back to the level he was at in Seattle where he's not a liability against the run and he's a guy you can have comfort in saying should be in the top 15-20 pass rushers in the league which is where he left off.

Why do you hate Frank Clark so much?

Why are you nostalgically praising Dee Ford?

Why is this becoming a dick measuring contest when all we need is a healthy Patrick?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[BossChief]

The Seahawks couldn’t afford him you stupid fuck. The Raiders did the same thing with Mack and they had way more money. Does that mean the Raiders didn’t think he was really good?

And yet they traded for Clowney to play his position at far more $ in 2019...

[kccrow]

Why do you hate Frank Clark so much?

Why are you nostalgically praising Dee Ford?

Why is this becoming a dick measuring contest when all we need is a healthy Patrick?

Inquiring minds want to know...

I don't hate Clark. I hate that he's playing like ass on a large contract.

I thought the decision was bad one when it all went down. It's not about praising Dee Ford, it's about stating that Clark wasn't worth it at the time because he wasn't that type of massive improvement you'd expect for such compensation. There wasn't enough of a difference, in my opinion, nor statistically, to warrant Veach making that decision.

I don't care about dick size, the woman I fuck is happier than hell with mine. It is about looking at things rationally and I don't think many are with regards to the entire thought process that went into this entire debacle. Apparently others think Clark was light years better than I ever saw him against the run. I never agreed with Veach's decision and it's looking more and more like I never will. I'm really starting to dislike Veach as a whole. You look at Hitchens and Clark and have to wonder. You look at his drafts so far and they are a bit of a head-scratcher, but the 2019 draft does have more promise than the 2018 one. Luckily he stumbled into Thornhill, the guy had no business being there that late.

At least Ogbah is playing well for his money.

[-King-]

TRUTH! That's why he had to go regardless of any other reason. KC NEVER would have gotten the Justin Houston who is playing for the Colts this season.

The Houston who played for the chiefs last season was better than the Clark playing for the chiefs this season..

[The Franchise]

The Seahawks run defense was 27th in the league. Who’s fault was that? Frank Clark’s of course. It was all his fault. 10 other guys were shutting down the run but not Frank Clark. He’d run away from the RB every time that they ran the ball at him.

:rolleyes:

[-King-]

Why do you hate Frank Clark so much?

Why are you nostalgically praising Dee Ford?

Why is this becoming a dick measuring contest when all we need is a healthy Patrick?

Inquiring minds want to know...

You think it's worth 100+ million and a 1st and 2nd round pick for a DE that's on pace for less than six sacks?

[The Franchise]

The Houston who played for the chiefs last season was better than the Clark playing for the chiefs this season..

And if Houston was playing like Clark is now....people would be screaming for Veach to be fired because Houston was making $20 million this season and not doing dick. We’d just have an extra CB in here now that we wouldn’t be bitching about.

[The Franchise]

You think it's worth 100+ million and a 1st and 2nd round pick for a DE that's on pace for less than six sacks?

And what were you saying after Houston got his new contract and then proceeded to play 16 games in 2 years and get 11.5 sacks?

[staylor26]

The Seahawks run defense was 27th in the league. Who’s fault was that? Frank Clark’s of course. It was all his fault. 10 other guys were shutting down the run but not Frank Clark. He’d run away from the RB every time that they ran the ball at him.

:rolleyes:

That’s why I’m choosing to ignore his rebuttal. What a fucking joke of an argument. He tried to use tackle stats to show that a Ford and Clark are pretty much the same against the run too. What a fucking moron.

[staylor26]

And yet they traded for Clowney to play his position at far more $ in 2019...

Because they got him for a fucking 3rd round pick because the Texans went full retard with no GM LMAO

Are you suggesting they had the foresight to know this would happen? They would’ve gladly let Clark play on the tag just like Clowney is. This is a terrible rebuttal.

[The Franchise]

What it comes down to is this.

Was it worth what we gave up? No. I wasn’t a fan of what we gave up at the time and I probably never be.

Does that mean that Frank Clark is a garbage player because he got hurt his first year? Fuck no.

The two can be separated and judged on their own. FFS.

[-King-]

And if Houston was playing like Clark is now....people would be screaming for Veach to be fired because Houston was making $20 million this season and not doing dick. We’d just have an extra CB in here now that we wouldn’t be bitching about.

Sure. But at least we wouldn't be out a first and second round pick.

[-King-]

What it comes down to is this.

Was it worth what we gave up? No. I wasn’t a fan of what we gave up at the time and I probably never be.

Does that mean that Frank Clark is a garbage player because he got hurt his first year? Fuck no.

The two can be separated and judged on their own. FFS.

He had 3 sacks in 6 games before his injury. 1 sack in the first 5 games. That's horrible. Unless you're talking about his elbows. But then that would raise the question of why we traded so much and gave so much to a player with fucked up elbows.

[kccrow]

That’s why I’m choosing to ignore his rebuttal. What a fucking joke of an argument. He tried to use tackle stats to show that a Ford and Clark are pretty much the same against the run too. What a fucking moron.

No, retard, my eyeballs showed me that the 2018 version of Dee Ford was not that much worse against the run than Frank Clark. The stats just reinforce it.

When Frank Clark gets washed out by the tackle so they run at his area over and over again, you go ahead and count. The Colts had several big gains because he got washed out or didn't maintain his assignment on a cutback, as an example.

If you want to be blinded, fucking go for it.

[staylor26]

No, retard, my eyeballs showed me that the 2018 version of Dee Ford was not that much worse against the run than Frank Clark. The stats just reinforce it.

When Frank Clark gets washed out by the tackle so they run at his area over and over again, you go ahead and count. The Colts had several big gains because he got washed out or didn't maintain his assignment on a cutback, as an example.

If you want to be blinded, fucking go for it.

If you’re making your argument about the eye test than you are even dumber than I thought. How anybody can say they’ve watched these two and it’s a marginal difference is beyond me.

Again, Ford is so fucking bad that the 49ers have put him in a situational pass rusher role despite paying him big money and trading away a 2nd. What the fuck do you not get about this?

[O.city]

The amount the gave up for Clark plus the contract was only gonna be worth it if he was an all pro defensive player of the year type dude

So far, that hasn’t happened and he’s now hurt

[JakeF]

Sure. But at least we wouldn't be out a first and second round pick.
Good draft for defense too.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Nuke draft planet from orbit...just to be sure

[RunKC]

The amount the gave up for Clark plus the contract was only gonna be worth it if he was an all pro defensive player of the year type dude

So far, that hasn’t happened and he’s now hurt

So like Justin Houston, who the hindsight brigade are felating?

[O.city]

So like Justin Houston, who the hindsight brigade are felating?

Houston for one season at his number would be more palatable than this clark for however long he’ll be here

Hell it doesn’t have to be either or. They could have cut Houston and traded a 2nd for Clowney and been better off

[kccrow]

If you’re making your argument about the eye test than you are even dumber than I thought. How anybody can say they’ve watched these two and it’s a marginal difference is beyond me.

Again, Ford is so fucking bad that the 49ers have put him in a situational pass rusher role despite paying him big money and trading away a 2nd. What the fuck do you not get about this?

Ok kid. You're fucking delusional if you think Clark is "good" against the run. Laughing my fucking ass off. What I seem to get is that neither are good against the run but I'm saying I see Clark as slightly better. You, however, seem to think Clark is actually good against the run.

[kccrow]

At least when Houston was on the field he didn't suck.

[BossChief]

Because they got him for a fucking 3rd round pick because the Texans went full retard with no GM LMAO

Are you suggesting they had the foresight to know this would happen? They would’ve gladly let Clark play on the tag just like Clowney is. This is a terrible rebuttal.

Your claim was they couldn’t afford him.

Don’t move the goalposts and deflect.

Just own the fact Seattle didn’t WANT to pay him.

[BossChief]

Houston for one season at his number would be more palatable than this clark for however long he’ll be here

Hell it doesn’t have to be either or. They could have cut Houston and traded a 2nd for Clowney and been better off that was my preferred route

And had a Rock ya-sin or Byron Murphy at CB with the first.

[RunKC]

Houston for one season at his number would be more palatable than this clark for however long he’ll be here

Hell it doesn’t have to be either or. They could have cut Houston and traded a 2nd for Clowney and been better off

Okay then take away Honey Badger and Okafor. Can’t afford them if you keep Houston.

Spare us the Clowney bullshit. He’s been worse than Clark this year and he’s a broke dick.

[BossChief]

Okay then take away Honey Badger and Okafor. Can’t afford them if you keep Houston.

Spare us the Clowney bullshit. He’s been worse than Clark this year and he’s a broke dick.

Lol.

Clowney has been great in Seattle.

[Willie Lanier]

I don't hate Clark. I hate that he's playing like ass on a large contract.

I thought the decision was bad one when it all went down. It's not about praising Dee Ford, it's about stating that Clark wasn't worth it at the time because he wasn't that type of massive improvement you'd expect for such compensation. There wasn't enough of a difference, in my opinion, nor statistically, to warrant Veach making that decision.

I don't care about dick size, the woman I **** is happier than hell with mine. It is about looking at things rationally and I don't think many are with regards to the entire thought process that went into this entire debacle. Apparently others think Clark was light years better than I ever saw him against the run. I never agreed with Veach's decision and it's looking more and more like I never will. I'm really starting to dislike Veach as a whole. You look at Hitchens and Clark and have to wonder. You look at his drafts so far and they are a bit of a head-scratcher, but the 2019 draft does have more promise than the 2018 one. Luckily he stumbled into Thornhill, the guy had no business being there that late.

At least Ogbah is playing well for his money.

That was a fair and candid response.

There are discussions that can happen without unreasonable discourse...

I'm glad we're moving in the right direction...

[kcclone]

I feel like Frank will come back from his time off and be ready to rock and roll, and play like we all expected he would.

That’s my hope at least

[O.city]

Okay then take away Honey Badger and Okafor. Can’t afford them if you keep Houston.

Spare us the Clowney bullshit. He’s been worse than Clark this year and he’s a broke dick.

Could have had him playing on the tag for a 3rd and he’s played more games than Clark iirc

Or could have done neither and played with the dl they put out there today plus a few more picks

[-King-]

Okay then take away Honey Badger and Okafor. Can’t afford them if you keep Houston.

Spare us the Clowney bullshit. He’s been worse than Clark this year and he’s a broke dick.
You could have restructured Houston instead of asking him to take a paycut and a restructure. Or you could have moved money around with other players or with Matheiu and Okafor.

You could have kept Houston and still gotten the players we have now and still kept your picks. Would the restructure have cost us a little more in the long run? Yeah but at least it wouldn't be anywhere near as much as what Clark will cost the rest of his contract.


...and Houston got another sack and forced fumble today.

Oh yeah...weren't you the guy always talking about the run defense sucks because of Jones and how much better it got when he got injured? Does that same logic apply to Clark? Cause we just held the best running back in the league to 71 yards on 3.4 yards per carry with Jones and without Clark.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Frank Clark is good against the run and Epstein didn't kill himself.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Great that the Colts have managed to motivate Houston, because he sure wasn't last year.

[staylor26]

Your claim was they couldn’t afford him.

Don’t move the goalposts and deflect.

Just own the fact Seattle didn’t WANT to pay him.

I’m talking about long term dumbass. That’s not moving goalposts. Did they give Clowney a long term contract? No. He’s likely a one year rental, like Clark would’ve been.

[BossChief]

I’m talking about long term dumbass. That’s not moving goalposts. Did they give Clowney a long term contract? No. He’s likely a one year rental, like Clark would’ve been.

You have no idea what they want with Clowney long term.

They can’t negotiate a new deal till the seasons over.

What we DO know is Seattle didn’t want to pay Clark.

[KChiefs1]

If Clark would start playing like he has his whole career in Seattle, this defense could be amazing.

[RunKC]

Could have had him playing on the tag for a 3rd and he’s played more games than Clark iirc

Or could have done neither and played with the dl they put out there today plus a few more picks

And you could have bought stock in Amazon in 2007 and been filthy rich right now, so why didn’t you?

This hindsight stuff is hilarious. If anyone on here said we could have traded a 3rd and a player for Clowney you would have been laughed off the board.

Speaking of...he has 2 sacks in 9 games. You guys are bitching at Clark for 3 sacks in 2 less games but loving Clowney’s 2 sacks.

Come on

[-King-]

And you could have bought stock in Amazon in 2007 and been filthy rich right now, so why didn’t you?

This hindsight stuff is hilarious. If anyone on here said we could have traded a 3rd and a player for Clowney you would have been laughed off the board.

Speaking of...he has 2 sacks in 9 games. You guys are bitching at Clark for 3 sacks in 2 less games but loving Clowney’s 2 sacks.

Come on

I'd rather have 2 sacks in 9 games from a player we gave up a 3rd for than 3 sacks in 9 games from a player we gave up a 1st and 2nd for.



I swear this isn't a hard concept to understand.

[-King-]

If Clark would start playing like he has his whole career in Seattle, this defense could be amazing.

Yep. Hopefully he starts when he comes back cause the way he played the first half of the season won't cut it.

[dlphg9]

Has he found his neck?! I repeat has Frank Clark found his fucking neck?!

[O.city]

And you could have bought stock in Amazon in 2007 and been filthy rich right now, so why didn’t you?

This hindsight stuff is hilarious. If anyone on here said we could have traded a 3rd and a player for Clowney you would have been laughed off the board.

Speaking of...he has 2 sacks in 9 games. You guys are bitching at Clark for 3 sacks in 2 less games but loving Clowney’s 2 sacks.

Come on

If I got paid to be a financial advisor, I’d be expected to have a pretty good idea on trends and value.

Similarly, if I’m a gm, I need to understand the market and see where it’s headed in terms of players and value.

Up to this point, the frank Clark trade isn’t very valuable.

Clowney cost them a 3rd and the money for a year. Come on man, this isn’t hard

[O.city]

People are bitching at Clark because he was billed as this top 5 defensive player and would justify what they gave up

It’s not just the production

[Chris Meck]

Well...

He was great against Denver, which is the first game the defense looked like a good defense.

Perhaps when he comes back, he'll look like himself, again too.

I mean everyone else is looking much, much better.

I'll tell you this: If he does, look the fuck out.

[WhiteWhale]

I'm optimistic that with the defense finding it's groove, Clark can step in and make a big impact during the most important part of the season.

The new aggressive approach, combined with KC's naturally aggressive offensive approach is working well.

[staylor26]

O.City nobody could have fucking known the Texans would end up with no GM and go full retard.

Don’t even pretend like Veach should’ve seen that coming. You want to bitch about the trade itself? Fine, but that’s just unfair and silly to say he should’ve seen that coming. For crying out loud, the Texans wanted the same compensation we gave up for Clark at the time.

[duncan_idaho]

Let’s also not pretend the Texans would have actually accepted the same compensation for Clooney from the Chiefs they accepted from Seattle.

They might have, but there’s no way to know. I remain optimistic about what Clark can/will do when he gets back.

[RunKC]

If I got paid to be a financial advisor, I’d be expected to have a pretty good idea on trends and value.

Similarly, if I’m a gm, I need to understand the market and see where it’s headed in terms of players and value.

Up to this point, the frank Clark trade isn’t very valuable.

Clowney cost them a 3rd and the money for a year. Come on man, this isn’t hard

Nobody could have predicted that trade. We were all shocked that Seattle got him that cheap.

And even with that, the guy has 2 sacks. So...are they gonna pay him the big money he is wanting? For 4 (projected) sacks?

Again I agree with you that the compensation was bad. I hated it as much as anyone. I still think he’s the player we got and has the potential to be good.

Let’s see what happens in the 2nd half of the season and January. That will tell us a lot.

[O.city]

Nobody could have predicted that trade. We were all shocked that Seattle got him that cheap.

And even with that, the guy has 2 sacks. So...are they gonna pay him the big money he is wanting? For 4 (projected) sacks?

Again I agree with you that the compensation was bad. I hated it as much as anyone. I still think he’s the player we got and has the potential to be good.

Let’s see what happens in the 2nd half of the season and January. That will tell us a lot.

No, I wouldn't pay him the big money he wants, but you wouldn't have to. You have flexibility. The Chiefs don't now with Clark inked long term and underperforming.

If it's that bad to pay him for only 4 projected sacks, what does that say for the Chiefs paying Clark what they are for 6?

[O.city]

O.City nobody could have ****ing known the Texans would end up with no GM and go full retard.

Don’t even pretend like Veach should’ve seen that coming. You want to bitch about the trade itself? Fine, but that’s just unfair and silly to say he should’ve seen that coming. For crying out loud, the Texans wanted the same compensation we gave up for Clark at the time.

It's not about predicting it, it's about having the ability to be there when the opportunity presents itself.

Plus it's BoB at GM. You know he's gonna do dumb shit.

It's all sunk cost at this point anyway, but it's looking like it just wasnt' a good allocation of resources.

[RunKC]

No, I wouldn't pay him the big money he wants, but you wouldn't have to. You have flexibility. The Chiefs don't now with Clark inked long term and underperforming.

If it's that bad to pay him for only 4 projected sacks, what does that say for the Chiefs paying Clark what they are for 6?

You guys would be bitching at Veach if he was in this situation bc we’d have zero pass rush. The Seahawks pass rush sucks now that Frank is gone. They have 15 sacks in 9 games and 5 of them are from LB’s. They are on pace for less than 30 sacks which is well below par.

They drafted guys early like Rasheem Green and LJ Collier...minimal return.

They don’t have flexibility. They are basically forced to pay Clowney bc without him they have (literally) nothing else at DE.

The Clark trade has not been up to par so far. I agree. But we are 9 games in. We signed Clark to sack Brady.

The value of that trade will be magnified in the 2nd half of the season and specifically, the playoffs.

[O.city]

You guys would be bitching at Veach if he was in this situation bc we’d have zero pass rush. The Seahawks pass rush sucks now that Frank is gone. They have 15 sacks in 9 games and 5 of them are from LB’s. They are on pace for less than 30 sacks which is well below par.

They drafted guys early like Rasheem Green and LJ Collier...minimal return.

They don’t have flexibility. They are basically forced to pay Clowney bc without him they have (literally) nothing else at DE.

The Clark trade has not been up to par so far. I agree. But we are 9 games in. We signed Clark to sack Brady.

The value of that trade will be magnified in the 2nd half of the season and specifically, the playoffs.

Why would we have no pass rush? We haven't had Clark the last 2 weeks and have lead the league in sacks and pressures.

It's funny we can judge other teams picks their rookie year, but we're still holding out hope for Chiefs players 3 years in.

They aren't forced to pay Clowney if they don't want to. They can move on from him, get a comp pick, trade for or sign whoever now. They aren't tied to him after this year is the point.

[DJ's left nut]

If the guy costs us Chris Jones, the trade is a disaster.

Full stop.

Jones is better at EVERYTHING on a football field than Frank Clark is. He's a better DT and if given steady reps, he'd be a better DE. He's better at getting to the QB and has more potential against the run.

In no world does Frank Clark even have a chance to be as good a football player as Chris Jones and there's an excellent possibility that we lose Jones due to the idiotic contract we gave Clark. And even if we do manage to keep them both, we'll be surrounding them with nothing AND we won't have the 2 young players we could've had with the high picks we gave for Clark.

The trade was bad. Clark can do some things to make it less bad and things can happen to make it absolutely abysmal. Losing Chris Jones for a 2nd (because somehow Veach will fail to leverage his premium asset - again) because we had to give a 1st and 2nd for Frank Clark would just be a monumental kick in the dick.

[O.city]

You gotta go ahead and break Jones off. You need him, you've got the 2 or 3 cheap dudes in the middle now so you can offset those deals.

I actually think Clark and Jones as the DE's is....interesting. Am I way off?

[RunKC]

If the guy costs us Chris Jones, the trade is a disaster.

Full stop.

Jones is better at EVERYTHING on a football field than Frank Clark is. He's a better DT and if given steady reps, he'd be a better DE. He's better at getting to the QB and has more potential against the run.

In no world does Frank Clark even have a chance to be as good a football player as Chris Jones and there's an excellent possibility that we lose Jones due to the idiotic contract we gave Clark. And even if we do manage to keep them both, we'll be surrounding them with nothing AND we won't have the 2 young players we could've had with the high picks we gave for Clark.

The trade was bad. Clark can do some things to make it less bad and things can happen to make it absolutely abysmal. Losing Chris Jones for a 2nd (because somehow Veach will fail to leverage his premium asset - again) because we had to give a 1st and 2nd for Frank Clark would just be a monumental kick in the dick.

They can easily keep Jones if they want to. They have $22 million in the bank and have yet to cut expendable pieces like Sorenson, LDT and Sammy.

Veach has found cheap effective players who are performing. Ogbah, Nandi, Saunders, Hardman, Thornhill, Ward, Rankin, Butker. The coaching staff is also getting the most out these young guys, with Kpass being the shining example.

Dorsey was known as the “value guy” and that’s why people loved him. Well guess what? Veach has proven he is just as good at finding value and that is exactly what we need from a GM in charge of a team paying a QB a $200 million dollar deal.

So the bitching about Veach is pretty interesting. Veach got killed in the compensation for Frank Clark. We all agree there. But let me ask you something: whose team is rushing the passer better right now?

Seattle (15 sacks) or the team that lost Ford, Houston and has Jones and Clark underperforming relative to their seasons last year?

That’s your answer

[RunKC]

Also, enough of this “Veach is getting fleeced all the time” shit. He got taken to the cleaners on 1 deal. That’s it.

The deal for Dee Ford was fair value considering his injury history. That should be obvious.

Veach absolutely raped the Rams for Marcus Peters. The Rams gave up a 2nd rd pick, which ended up being Juan Thornhill, for a guy that pissed them off so badly that they got rid of him after one year.

Marcus Peters depreciated so poorly that he was worth a 2nd rd pick in 2018 and only one year later was worth a JAG and a 5th.

[staylor26]

Also, enough of this “Veach is getting fleeced all the time” shit. He got taken to the cleaners on 1 deal. That’s it.


Hey don’t let facts get in the way of this narrative!

[DJ's left nut]

They can easily keep Jones if they want to. They have $22 million in the bank and have yet to cut expendable pieces like Sorenson, LDT and Sammy.

Veach has found cheap effective players who are performing. Ogbah, Nandi, Saunders, Hardman, Thornhill, Ward, Rankin, Butker. The coaching staff is also getting the most out these young guys, with Kpass being the shining example.

Dorsey was known as the “value guy” and that’s why people loved him. Well guess what? Veach has proven he is just as good at finding value and that is exactly what we need from a GM in charge of a team paying a QB a $200 million dollar deal.

So the bitching about Veach is pretty interesting. Veach got killed in the compensation for Frank Clark. We all agree there. But let me ask you something: whose team is rushing the passer better right now?

Seattle (15 sacks) or the team that lost Ford, Houston and has Jones and Clark underperforming relative to their seasons last year?

That’s your answer

I've gone over this already.

No, they cannot 'easily' keep Chris Jones. At all. It's going to take serious sacrifices across the board on that defense. Even mediocre options like Ragland are out the door.

And if you think getting a 3rd round pick for Dee Ford (roughly the value of the following season's second), very probably the best pure pass-rusher in football in 2018, isn't a fleecing - well you're just grading on a curve at that point.

As for your Seattle question - I'm struggling to come up with the relevance here. Seattle HAS their superstar QB on a big-boy contract so they had tough decisions they had to make to fit all those pieces together. They did what they could in allocating those resources. If they'd have kept this version of Frank Clark on their roster, they'd have been no better off.

We're going to have to make those same decisions very shortly and by surrendering significant assets to acquire Frank Clark AND giving him a contract that was out of line with any productivity he had exhibited at any point in his NFL career, we've made things extremely difficult going forward.

[DJ's left nut]

Hey don’t let facts get in the way of this narrative!

The Chiefs just had their best game defensively on a day your sweet baboo didn't even take the field.

Maybe you oughta sit the next few plays out. Frank Clark's made no difference to this team at all after you sucked his dick for 6 months.

[staylor26]

The Chiefs just had their best game defensively on a day your sweet baboo didn't even take the field.

Maybe you oughta sit the next few plays out. Frank Clark's made no difference to this team at all after you sucked his dick for 6 months.

Umm what?

Did you even read the post I was responding to? I’m not defending the Clark trade. I’m defending Veach’s other trades. I’ve said over and over that the compensation was too much, but there’s nothing we can do about that now.

Keep acting like the book is closed on Clark though. It’s going to be funny when he comes up big down the stretch.

[O.city]

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/8M7GK1rQvHBkY" width="480" height="290" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/reactiongifs-8M7GK1rQvHBkY">via GIPHY</a></p>

[O.city]

Umm what?

Did you even read the post I was responding to? I’m not defending the Clark trade. I’m defending Veach’s other trades. I’ve said over and over that the compensation was too much, but there’s nothing we can do about that now.

Keep acting like the book is closed on Clark though. It’s going to be funny when he comes up big down the stretch.

Other trades have been good and cheap. Lets keep doing that and quit with these big ones.

[staylor26]

Also, gotta love DJ patting himself on the back with all this Frank Clark stuff like even he saw this outcome coming.

Let’s bring up some of your posts about the 2019 draft that you bitched and whined about like a fucking brat that didn’t get what they wanted on Christmas.

Oh that’s right you’ll just ignore/rationalize your awful takes like you did with Jones and Hunt.

[O.city]

My gifs aren't working. Fucking technology.

[O.city]

Also, gotta love DJ patting himself on the back with all this Frank Clark stuff like even he saw this outcome coming.

Let’s bring up some of your posts about the 2019 draft that you bitched and whined about like a ****ing brat that didn’t get what they wanted on Christmas.

Oh that’s right you’ll just ignore/rationalize your awful takes like you did with Jones and Hunt.

It has ended worse than even he thought. That sucks.

[Reerun_KC]

Also, gotta love DJ patting himself on the back with all this Frank Clark stuff like even he saw this outcome coming.

Let’s bring up some of your posts about the 2019 draft that you bitched and whined about like a ****ing brat that didn’t get what they wanted on Christmas.

Oh that’s right you’ll just ignore/rationalize your awful takes like you did with Jones and Hunt.

So your back watching now?

[staylor26]

It has ended worse than even he thought. That sucks.

Nothing has ended. The last time he touched the field was his best game as a Chief. Relax.

[DJ's left nut]

Also, gotta love DJ patting himself on the back with all this Frank Clark stuff like even he saw this outcome coming.

Let’s bring up some of your posts about the 2019 draft that you bitched and whined about like a fucking beat that didn’t get what they wanted on Christmas.

Oh that’s right you’ll just ignore it and rationalize your awful takes like you did with Jones and Hunt.

Fucking pussy.

Yes, almost certainly the most vocal critic of the Frank Clark trade is supposed to pretend like I didn't hate that trade from the moment it was made. A deal that's still bad for all the reasons I SAID it was bad has actually been worse. And you people that I insisted were going to defend Frank Clark no matter how poorly he played really gave it your best shot for 6 weeks there until there was simply no way to keep defending the guy. But hey, at least most of you are finally keeping your powder dry in the hopes that he rallies - good for you.

Oh, and the Hardman trade/selection was still a poor one. I liked the Thornhill and Saunders picks. Not sure what else you're prattling on about.

Hardman can't run routes and can't stop fumbling the fucking ball but because he occasionally runs fast in a straight line we have people acting like he's the long-term answer at X now rather than a gimmick guy who we shouldn't have traded up for when guys like McLaurin and Boykin were on the board.

You're just a homer hiding behind a Dane McCloud mask. You're going to defend EVERYTHING this franchise does until there's absolutely no way to defend it anymore.

[staylor26]

Yes, almost certainly the most vocal critic of the Frank Clark trade is supposed to pretend like I didn't hate that trade from the moment it was made. A deal that's still bad for all the reasons I SAID it was bad has actually been worse. And you people that I insisted were going to defend Frank Clark no matter how poorly he played really gave it your best shot for 6 weeks there until there was simply no way to keep defending the guy. But hey, at least most of you are finally keeping your powder dry.

Oh, and the Hardman trade/selection was still a poor one. I liked the Thornhill and Saunders picks. Not sure what else you're prattling on about.

Hardman can't run routes and can't stop fumbling the fucking ball but because he occasionally runs fast in a straight line we have people acting like he's the long-term answer at X now rather than a gimmick guy who we shouldn't have traded up for when guys like McLaurin and Boykin were on the board.

You're just a homer hiding behind a Dane McCloud mask. You're going to defend EVERYTHING this franchise does until there's absolutely no way to defend it anymore.


Rashad Fenton ring a bell? You basically said he had no business being drafted in the 6th round. Dude looks like a fucking steal now lol

And shut the fuck up. I’ve been critical when it deserves it. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. The truth is we’ve become one of the best organizations in football so there’s really not a whole lot to complain about unless you’re a miserable fuck like yourself.

You were screaming fire Veach not too long ago. None of my “homer” takes are that bad. Shut the fuck up already you goddamn know it all. When will you realize that you aren’t half as smart as you think you are?

[O.city]

Nothing has ended. The last time he touched the field was his best game as a Chief. Relax.

And he's already missed games with injury and been hurt a lot.

It's all about value, which with what they gave up and paid him, he's already behind even breaking even value wise.

[staylor26]

Shitting on the Hardman pick/trade still too? :facepalm:

OMG he fumbled and needs to work on route running let’s ignore his electrifying speed and playmaking ability that he’s displayed over and over!!!

[kcclone]

Nothing has ended. The last time he touched the field was his best game as a Chief. Relax.


I agree. I think everyone expected more from Frank Clark to this point (obvious), but it's too early to write the book on him thru 9 games. I think when he gets back he'll be healthier and coming back at a time where our defensive unit overall is coming together.

We have to remember, our staff is just now figuring out what they have and what our players do best. This defense was completely rebuilt, both staff and personnel.

Let's see what it looks like in December and January before we write someone off as a bust.

[O.city]

I don't think at this point Hardman has shown enough to make any of us comfortable walking away from Sammy though. He seems best fit to be that gadget type dude.

[DJ's left nut]

Rashad Fenton ring a bell?

And shut the fuck up. I’ve been critical when it deserves it. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. The truth is we’ve become one of the best organizations in football so there’s really not a whole lot to complain about unless you’re a miserable duck like yourself.

You were screaming fire Veach not too long ago. None of my “homer” takes are that bad. Shut the fuck up already you know it all. When will you realize that you aren’t half as smart as you think you are?

I'm exactly as smart as I think I am. I mean I haven't placed a number on it, but it's significantly more intelligent than you.

As for Fenton - no, really doesn't. I have exactly zero recollection of a draft-day opinion on Fenton because ultimately he was just some JAG we took in the 6th. I would've taken Fields instead but I wasn't setting the board on fire with hot takes about how awful a 6th round selection was because by the 6th round I largely don't give a rip. It's the 6th round.

So that's the best you've got, sport? Man - you're really trying too hard here. You should say fuck more - really get in that Dane spirit. Right now you're just early-era Frazod when he was shooting refrigerators and stuff and had to take a break from the board because it was driving him slowly insane.

I'd hate to see you travel down a similarly dark path...

[RunKC]

I've gone over this already.

No, they cannot 'easily' keep Chris Jones. At all. It's going to take serious sacrifices across the board on that defense. Even mediocre options like Ragland are out the door.

And if you think getting a 3rd round pick for Dee Ford (roughly the value of the following season's second), very probably the best pure pass-rusher in football in 2018, isn't a fleecing - well you're just grading on a curve at that point.

As for your Seattle question - I'm struggling to come up with the relevance here. Seattle HAS their superstar QB on a big-boy contract so they had tough decisions they had to make to fit all those pieces together. They did what they could in allocating those resources. If they'd have kept this version of Frank Clark on their roster, they'd have been no better off.

We're going to have to make those same decisions very shortly and by surrendering significant assets to acquire Frank Clark AND giving him a contract that was out of line with any productivity he had exhibited at any point in his NFL career, we've made things extremely difficult going forward.

Consequences like what we’ve seen the past 2 weeks? We have played our best football on defense without the following players:

Dee Ford, Justin Houston, Chris Jones (1 game), Frank Clark (2 games) and Kendall Fuller (2 games). Sure looks like there were no consequences.

Let me repeat this: there are no consequences if you find quality cheap talent.

You’re mad at losing Ragland? Damien Wilson’s a better player and he cost 600k more. You think we can’t find another Ragland?

D. Wilson, Ogbah, Saunders, Fenton, Hardman, Kpass, Nnandi, Thornhill, Ragland and Ward

All of those players have been excellent value and have outperformed their billing. The combined cap hit of all 8 of those players is $10.751 million. That’s less than 6% of our cap.

If Veach keeps finding players like he is off the scrap heap, as well as hitting on the draft, there will be no consequences.

[Sassy Squatch]

https://media.tenor.com/images/1ee4a7fde3b1c5d45d3866d99c4349f2/tenor.gif

[sedated]

Oh, and the Hardman trade/selection was still a poor one.

I agree with a lot of what you say and absolutely agree on the Clark deal (I posted shortly after about the fear that it would cost us Jones, who regardless of Clark's play is at a more valuable position).

But Hardman plays WR, the position with the steepest learning curve in the NFL. DeAndre Hopkins, the consensus best WR in the game, had 50 catches and 2 TDs his rookie year. Antonio Brown didn't break 70 catches until his 4th season. Davante Adams was a pedestrian until catching fire halfway through his 3rd year. It takes time.

[DJ's left nut]

Shitting on the Hardman pick/trade still too? :facepalm:

OMG he fumbled and needs to work on route running let’s ignore his electrifying speed and playmaking ability that he’s displayed over and over!!!

Not the pick I would've made, no

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=14351381&highlight=Mclaurin#post14351381

And that's in a thread where I actually defended him as having potential to make an impact due to his coach and unique speed. Because one can be critical of a decision while not also saying hit was complete shit.

You could try the inverse here and there but I suspect you won't. You'll just keep assuming that everything the Chiefs do is the best thing that could've been done.

[RunKC]

I don't think at this point Hardman has shown enough to make any of us comfortable walking away from Sammy though. He seems best fit to be that gadget type dude.

Watkins-6 TD’s as a Chief in 1.5 years-$19.2 million
Hardman-4 TD’s as a Chief in half a season. $908k

Yeah. I think this is a pretty easy decision.

[RunKC]

You could try the inverse here and there but I suspect you won't. You'll just keep assuming that everything the Chiefs do is the best thing that could've been done.

Call me a homer. Don’t care. Even with the Frank Clark deal not panning out (so far), this has been the best offseason the Chiefs have had in the Andy Reid era.

The coaching staff additions, immediate returns from the draft and immediate returns from FA’s/trades has mitigated major losses and has actually made this team better.

The Chiefs appear to have hit on nearly everything but Frank Clark and the last 3 weeks have been concrete evidence of that claim.

Not to put salt in the wound DJ, but your love child Garrett Bradbury got his shit kicked in by Chris Jones and Brett Veach’s two 3rd rd DL. It was a raping.

Now isn’t the time to shit on Hardman or Clark after this ass kicking by 3rd rd picks and FA’s off the street. Holy shit wow

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/Vikings?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@vikings</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/dalvincook?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dalvincook</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@chiefs</a> played their best run defense of the season to limit the <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFL</a> leading rusher. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BigTime?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BigTime</a> performances from <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Nnadi?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Nnadi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pennel?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pennel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CJones?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CJones</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ivie?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ivie</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Saunders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Saunders</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tanoh?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Tanoh</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ogbah?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ogbah</a>. The won the LOS all afternoon <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BaldysBreakdowns?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BaldysBreakdowns</a> <a href="https://t.co/F78hqBoNc0">pic.twitter.com/F78hqBoNc0</a></p>&mdash; Brian Baldinger (@BaldyNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1191362072967307264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[DJ's left nut]

I agree with a lot of what you say and absolutely agree on the Clark deal (I posted shortly after about the fear that it would cost us Jones, who regardless of Clark's play is at a more valuable position).

But Hardman plays WR, the position with the steepest learning curve in the NFL. DeAndre Hopkins, the consensus best WR in the game, had 50 catches and 2 TDs his rookie year. Antonio Brown didn't break 70 catches until his 4th season. Davante Adams was a pedestrian until catching fire halfway through his 3rd year. It takes time.

Sure it does. And WR is a bitch to learn in this system.

But if you're going with the 'learning curve' approach I'd sure like to see a guy with a more rounded skill-set. Hardman can absolutely still prove me wrong but I don't see a guy who will ever be able to be what Watkins is in this offense and be that physical X style WR who can get over the middle and make tough, contested catches that are so critical in the red zone.

Offense between the 20s is pretty easy these days, especially when you have a wizard calling your plays. But capitalizing on red zone opportunities is more vital than ever. Sometimes that requires having a guy who can just body off someone or battle his way through traffic to make a touch catch. I don't see Hardman being that guy and I think long-term that's a player they need.

There were people on the board when Hardman was chosen who have more potential to be that player. To me, Hardman looks more like a Donnie Avery sort and I think trading up into the 2nd for that kind of player is a poor use of resources.

If he becomes Desean Jackson, it won't be.

We shall see...

[O.city]

Watkins-6 TD’s as a Chief in 1.5 years-$19.2 million
Hardman-4 TD’s as a Chief in half a season. $908k

Yeah. I think this is a pretty easy decision.

That's...an interesting take.

We saw the offense with no Sammy and Pringle and Hardman as the Watkins replacement. It wasn't ideal.

[staylor26]

I'm not too concerned.

The difference between him and Fenton is night and day. He's just a much better player.

He's gonna make this team.

I just had to go search his name to make sure he wasn't injured.

The only news I can find on him is that evidently Hill torched his ass at some point (not surprising, happens to the best of 'em). But like you said, it's almost complete radio silence out there on him.

He's playing but all we're hearing about with the young guys is Wade and Fields. That cannot bode well for Fenton.

Y'all back off my boy. I've been a Fields Stan for a bit (going back to the CP Mock).

I'm still not sure what compelled the Chiefs to take Fenton in the 6th over Fields. I get that he has a ceiling to him due to his size, but his coverage skills are top notch.

I know there’s more, but I don’t have the time to keep digging. Point is Chiefs didn’t take DJ’s guy so OF COURSE the guy they did take is worse and a bad pick.

It’s the same shit he’s doing with Hardman.

The arrogance is strong with this one.

[dlphg9]

The Chiefs just had their best game defensively on a day your sweet baboo didn't even take the field.

Maybe you oughta sit the next few plays out. Frank Clark's made no difference to this team at all after you sucked his dick for 6 months.

Its amazing watching Jones out there compared to Clark. Jones has consistently looked like an absolute monster out there, beating double teams and then you have Frank trying to hug the OT. I love all the excuses people have come up with for Frank the Blank;

He's being double teamed most every play and sometimes triple teamed!

He is playing really well. You all are just too stupid to see it!

He's a complete player and plays the run too, so he doesn't go out there and do whatever he wants like Chris Jones. It's harder for for him to get as many sacks like old one dimensional Chris Jones.

The opposing offense is gameplanning against him, so he doesn't have many shots to make a play.

#PeteThings - Herp derp all you guys are criticizing have unreal expectations for him and since he doesn't have 15 sacks already he sucks herp derp.

This is a brand new system. It will take quite awhile for him to learn the scheme.

Double. Teams.

Hes playing with multiple injuries. Injuries that would kill most other men!

Its like Alex Smith all over again with all of the excuses some people want to come up with. I sure hope the Denver game Frank is the player that he will be, because if not Veach got completely fucked. If we lose Jones because of this ass holes contract, then Veach should be fired.

[DJ's left nut]

Call me a homer. Don’t care. Even with the Frank Clark deal not panning out (so far), this has been the best offseason the Chiefs have had in the Andy Reid era.

The coaching staff additions, immediate returns from the draft and immediate returns from FA’s/trades has mitigated major losses and has actually made this team better.

The Chiefs appear to have hit on nearly everything but Frank Clark and the last 3 weeks have been concrete evidence of that claim.

Not to put salt in the wound DJ, but your love child Garrett Bradbury got his shit kicked in by Chris Jones and Brett Veach’s two 3rd rd DL. It was a raping.

Tis true.

Bradbury has been beaten up pretty badly. I think I identified an area of need pretty well when I said our interior line needed more attention than most believed but Bradbury doesn't appear to have been the answer thus far.

I will say that Bradbury's main strength was athleticism for his size - the Vikings OTOH are trying to use him more as a 'drive blocker' sort in a power run game. Not sure that's playing to his strengths terribly well and I think he'd have been far better here.

My issue has been, from the very start, how little emphasis has been put on the Clark deal. We act like this was some short-term thing that had a nominal cost and that we should be happy if he's just a fine player. For 3 weeks that was STILL the refrain from the "well his run defense is fine" crowd. It's now sort of morphed into an argument that getting 1 year from Ogbah and a solid season from Wilson offsets that.

No way - if you're weighing these decisions on the basis of potential impact on the franchise in the short and long term, the Clark deal (and you're not gonna convince me on the Okafor deal; he wasn't playing all that well before he was hurt and now he's hurt) does a lot more harm than the Ogbah trade does good. Both in the near term and the long term. You can make the argument that Ogbah offsets the disappointing returns of Okafor, but that doesn't touch Clark. Wilson can offset the reliance on Lee but the LB situation is still far from aces.

As for the DBs - I believe I was one of the few guys who said I was pretty comfortable with how our secondary stacked up this year. I was far less concerned than most there.

But my concern is how these Watkins/Hitchens/Clark sorts of maneuvers are adding up with the potential to make some real nasty choices for Veach in the near future.

You're right - if he can get 3 starters on pittance deals every season, we'll be fine. If he can keep doing that he can paper over big whiffs on larger deals. But that's a hell of an ask and not a strategy I'd bank on long-term. That's working without a net virtually every season and it's just not a great place to put yourself.

[DJ's left nut]

I know there’s more, but I don’t have the time to keep digging. Point is Chiefs didn’t take DJ’s guy so OF COURSE the guy they did take is worse and a bad pick.

It’s the same shit he’s doing with Hardman.

The arrogance is strong with this one.

You also said Fields would make the team.

And like I said - THAT'S the best you have? Really? "Man, I haven't heard much from Fenton this camp and I'm not sure he'll make the team; I like Fields more."

Yeah, just blazing away with both barrels there, I was.

Change your tampon, man - those infections can be a real bitch.

[KC Hawks]

You guys are very sweet.

[DJ's left nut]

Its amazing watching Jones out there compared to Clark. Jones has consistently looked like an absolute monster out there, .

I wish I could remember the play but it wasn't the one where he threw the lineman into Cousins but rather a play where someone else got pressure and forced a bad pass after Cousins couldn't step up.

But you can find that play easier so just take a look at it instead - Chris Jones has some of the best get off I have ever seen for a player that size. He doesn't demonstrate it quite as clearly in that play but you can kinda see it there as well. His ability to just blow off the ball and into his man before the guy knows what hit him is just unreal.

There are times he seems as fast off the ball as Ford did and the guy weights 300 damn lbs. I read he had been doing some off-season drills to get his weight down and it shows even more this year than it did last season, that guy is a rocket off the snap.

That's the kind of thing I'm looking for with Clark and just not seeing. Where is there an attribute? It's not his first step and it's not his bend or agility. It damn sure isn't his hand-fighting or ability to string moves together. It's not strength in his lower half either. What the hell made the guy good and where has it gone? Because I'm just not seeing a skill that jumps off the screen anywhere with Frank Clark.

What is it that Frank Clark does well? From a physical or technique standpoint, what would you identify as his strengths? I just can't see 'em.

[staylor26]

You also said Fields would make the team.

And like I said - THAT'S the best you have? Really? "Man, I haven't heard much from Fenton this camp and I'm not sure he'll make the team; I like Fields more."

Yeah, just blazing away with both barrels there, I was.

Change your tampon, man - those infections can be a real bitch.

I liked Fields, and yes I thought he would make the team, but I have enough sense to know that just because I liked Fields more doesn’t mean he was “night and day” better than Fenton and clearly should’ve been the pick.

The point I’m trying to make is you think you’re so fucking smart that you can’t even give a winning organization the benefit of the doubt on a fucking 6th round pick when they’ve clearly done way more work on that guy than you have. You talked about the guy like he was a wasted draft pick and he’s stepped up big time as a rookie.

Maybe just maybe you should give these guys the benefit of the doubt.

Hardman is a perfect example. Andy Reid clearly has a better fucking eye for offensive talent than you ever will, but of course you can’t trust that he knows better than armchair GM DJ’s Left Nut on ChiefsPlanet.

[Sassy Squatch]

Lol DJ caught staylor in the feelings.

[O.city]

I liked Fields, and yes I thought he would make the team, but I have enough sense to know that just because I liked Fields more doesn’t mean he was “night and day” better than Fenton and clearly should’ve been the pick.

The point I’m trying to make is you think you’re so ****ing smart that you can’t even give a winning organization the benefit of the doubt on a ****ing 6th round pick when they’ve clearly done way more work on that guy than you have. You talked about the guy like he was a wasted draft pick and he’s stepped up big time as a rookie.

Maybe just maybe you should give these guys the benefit of the doubt.

Hardman is a perfect example. Andy Reid clearly has a better ****ing eye for offensive talent than you ever will, but of course you can’t trust that he knows better than armchair GM DJ’s Left Nut on ChiefsPlanet.

True.

So why did you shit on the Pats for trading what they did for Sanu? Aren't they a winning organization?

[staylor26]

DJ:

“Hunt is basically West”

“Chris Jones would be an AWFUL 1st round pick”

“An UDFA is “night and day” better than Fenton (before Fenton even plays a game)”

“Fire Veach!!! He’s awful!”

But yea I’m just reaching that those were bad takes :facepalm:

[staylor26]

True.

So why did you shit on the Pats for trading what they did for Sanu? Aren't they a winning organization?

Ummm Sanu isn’t a fucking rookie. He’s a 30 year old vet and we know exactly who he is.

That’s a far cry from a rookie 6th round pick who probably none of us did our homework on. Are you seriously trying to compare these two situations?

[O.city]

Ummm Sanu isn’t a ****ing rookie. He’s a 30 year old and we know exactly who he is.

That’s a far cry from a rookie 6th round pick who probably none of us did our homework on.

But don't you think Belicheck knows more about it than you do?

[KC Hawks]

Brett Veach has made some really good moves. Brett Veach has made some really bad moves.

Hope this clears things up.

[staylor26]

But don't you think Belicheck knows more about it than you do?

I know what you’re trying to do here. I’m not saying that we can’t ever be critical.

There’s a huge difference between a 30 year old NFL WR who we’ve watched throughout his entire career and a 6th round pick that nobody knows anything about. The situations aren’t even remotely close. Give me a break.

There’s a reason I’m using Fenton and other draft picks only for this.

[DJ's left nut]

I liked Fields, and yes I thought he would make the team, but I have enough sense to know that just because I liked Fields more doesn’t mean he was “night and day” better than Fenton and clearly should’ve been the pick.

The point I’m trying to make is you think you’re so fucking smart that you can’t even give a winning organization the benefit of the doubt on a fucking 6th round pick when they’ve clearly done way more work on that guy than you have. You talked about the guy like he was a wasted draft pick and he’s stepped up big time as a rookie.

Maybe just maybe you should give these guys the benefit of the doubt.

Hardman is a perfect example. Andy Reid clearly has a better fucking eye for offensive talent than you ever will, but of course you can’t trust that he knows better than armchair GM DJ’s Left Nut on ChiefsPlanet.

He's a 6th round pick. I don't 'give the benefit of the doubt' because I largely don't care at all. They're odd little novelties that occasionally pan out and mostly don't matter. Ever. Rashad Fenton barely crossed my mind at any point and to even call that 'criticism' of the Fenton pick does the word a disservice. That is tepid support of Fields at it's very worst.

In camp, Fields WAS significantly better and I'm certain you'll acknowledge this fact. Then the dude !@#$ing immolated in the 4th pre-season game and deservedly lost his gig. So be it - but to act like Fenton hadn't outplayed him by leaps and bounds to that point is absurd.

And to act like any of my posts on the subject suggest that I was just furious with Brett Veach for taking Fenton is just laughable. Are you really that hard-up for something to bitch about?

And by the way, I've polished Andy Reid's knob literally since the moment we brought him on. Look at that "Andy Reid sucks" thread when I have habitually called people fucking morons and dissected their nonsensical "he can't manage a clock" horseshit. I literally started a thread saying that Andy Reid was better than blowjobs the day the signing was announced. I believe he's one of the 3-5 best coaches in NFL history. In what fucking world have I suggested that I know more about football than Andy Reid?

But when the extent of your contributions to ANYTHING on this board is "well if Andy Reid did it, I guess I should just assume it was right" - then what the hell are you even here for? Chat boards are always about disagreement. They're always about discourse and yes, I'll disagree with decisions made by even the mighty Andy Reid. Doesn't mean I think I know more about football than he does - hell, I said a dozen times last year that Bob Sutton knows more about this game than the 10 most knowledgeable posters on this board combined. Even the dumbest guys in football know more than we do (well, maybe not all of them, but most of them). IT'S THEIR JOB.

But if you're just going to defer to authority every time a team with a winning record does something - just fucking pack it in. Is the KC Star board still around? I'm sure you can go hang out there and just shout "YAAAY CHIEFS!! "every Sunday.

[O.city]

I know what you’re trying to do here. I’m not saying that we can’t ever be critical.

There’s a huge difference between a 30 year old NFL WR who we’ve watched throughout his entire career and a 6th round pick that nobody knows anything about. The situations aren’t even remotely close. Give me a break.

There’s a reason I’m using Fenton and other draft picks only for this.

Yeah, still doesn't make sense though.

[Aspengc8]

I wish I could remember the play but it wasn't the one where he threw the lineman into Cousins but rather a play where someone else got pressure and forced a bad pass after Cousins couldn't step up.

But you can find that play easier so just take a look at it instead - Chris Jones has some of the best get off I have ever seen for a player that size. He doesn't demonstrate it quite as clearly in that play but you can kinda see it there as well. His ability to just blow off the ball and into his man before the guy knows what hit him is just unreal.

There are times he seems as fast off the ball as Ford did and the guy weights 300 damn lbs. I read he had been doing some off-season drills to get his weight down and it shows even more this year than it did last season, that guy is a rocket off the snap.

That's the kind of thing I'm looking for with Clark and just not seeing. Where is there an attribute? It's not his first step and it's not his bend or agility. It damn sure isn't his hand-fighting or ability to string moves together. It's not strength in his lower half either. What the hell made the guy good and where has it gone? Because I'm just not seeing a skill that jumps off the screen anywhere with Frank Clark.

What is it that Frank Clark does well? From a physical or technique standpoint, what would you identify as his strengths? I just can't see 'em.

He's young and played at a very high level in Seattle. Did KC overpay for him? Yup and a lot of people new this back in April. Can he play at a high level this season? Maybe. He's been banged up. I didn't like the elbow braces on in earlier games and now a neck injury nobody has info on. I think he will be a high level player, just not for that price tag.

[DJ's left nut]

I know what you’re trying to do here. I’m not saying that we can’t ever be critical.



Yes - you are.

If your position is "criticizing the Chiefs is substituting your judgment for Andy Reid's and thus a suggestion you know more about football than Reid" then you are absolutely saying exactly that.

That or you're just doing a really lousy job of trying to make a point.

Y'know what, you're right - it's probably just the latter. Par for the course, really.

[staylor26]

Yeah, still doesn't make sense though.

Of course it doesn’t because I’m arguing with DJ. You wouldn’t dare agree with me when I’m debating your master.

LMAO

You’re such an dick riding pillowbitergot. What kind of grown ass man does that?

My point is we could at least give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to a 6th rounder versus an UDFA. It’s really not that complicated and makes sense if you aren’t trying to be a pillowbitergot.

I’m not even saying you can’t have an opinion, just this fire Veach BS and he gets raped every time he trades is embarrassingly stupid. DJ’s Left Nut isn’t a pimple on Veach’s ass yet he really did believe he knows better. There’s a huge difference between being critical and that.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, still doesn't make sense though.

It doesn't. At all.

It's one of those points you tend to get taught in a debate course - in the course of making several arguments, any argument that doesn't help your case will actively hurt it.

So maybe the whole "Andy Reid knows more about offensive football than you so you should just shut up and assume he's right" thing should've just stayed in his pocket.

To each their own...

[O.city]

Of course it doesn’t because I’m arguing with DJ. You wouldn’t dare agree with me when I’m debating your master.

LMAO

You’re such an dick riding pillowbitergot. What kind of grown ass man does that?

I mean, ok. I don't really care what you guys are arguing about. It's an appeal to authority, which is fine, but own it man. Don't run from it.

Either way though, doesn't matter to me.

I don't care about picks after the 4th round, I'd have them all traded away so I wouldn't have to worry about picking them. I don't really care about Fields vs Fenton or whatever you guys are arguing. I was just chiming in on the obvious.

[DJ's left nut]

I mean, ok. I don't really care what you guys are arguing about. It's an appeal to authority, which is fine, but own it man. Don't run from it.

Either way though, doesn't matter to me.

I don't care about picks after the 4th round, I'd have them all traded away so I wouldn't have to worry about picking them. I don't really care about Fields vs Fenton or whatever you guys are arguing. I was just chiming in on the obvious.

Gooooood boy, O.City.

Such a good booooy.

https://img.etimg.com/thumb/msid-70243653,width-643,imgsize-570501,resizemode-4/dogs-pets_gettyimages.jpg

[O.city]

I try.

Sometimes.

So much hostility.

[dlphg9]

I know there’s more, but I don’t have the time to keep digging. Point is Chiefs didn’t take DJ’s guy so OF COURSE the guy they did take is worse and a bad pick.

It’s the same shit he’s doing with Hardman.

The arrogance is strong with this one.

Lol, what a weak ass response. Where was he throwing a fit like a child that didnt get what he wanted for Christmas? Youre a fucking clown

[O.city]

I had staylors back when he was dealing with titty meat, and this is the thanks I get.

Sheesh.

[staylor26]

There are levels to everything.

Being critical is fine.

But when it comes to late round picks versus UDFA’s that no fan has even come close to matching in terms of homework down maybe just maybe give them the benefit of the doubt before saying one guy is “night and day better” than the other?

And hold off on saying we should fire the GM of a more than competent organization beofre his second draft class even touches the field?

What y’all are saying is at no point is it ok to say maybe we should just trust the pros on this one because we lack the information to judge so quickly?

[staylor26]

Lol, what a weak ass response. Where was he throwing a fit like a child that didnt get what he wanted for Christmas? Youre a fucking clown

That wasn’t in reference to Fenton specifically moron. I’m talking about the “fire Veach!!” stuff. It’s how DJ acts every year when he doesn’t get what he wants on draft day. If you’re suggesting that DJ hasn’t acted like that before, you are 100% wrong.

[O.city]

Saying you don't like a certain move doesn't necessarily mean you want to blow things up and fire everyone though.

Atleast when I say it it doesn't, I only speak for o.city though.

[DJ's left nut]

There are levels to everything.

Being critical is fine.

But when it comes to late round picks versus UDFA’s that no fan has even come close to matching in terms of homework down maybe just maybe give them the benefit of the doubt before saying one guy is “night and day better” than the other?

And hold off on saying we should fire the GM of a more than competent organization beofre his second draft class even touches the field?

What y’all are saying is at no point is it ok to say maybe we should just trust the pros on this one because we lack the information to judge so quickly?

The irony of you demanding we consider the relativity of any situation and then seizing on the line 'night and day better' when discussing a 6th round pick vs. a UDFA as evidence that I eviscerated Brett Veach for a 3rd day pick should really not be lost on you...

[staylor26]

Saying you don't like a certain move doesn't necessarily mean you want to blow things up and fire everyone though.

Atleast when I say it it doesn't, I only speak for o.city though.

No he has actually called for the firing of Veach or at least it was implied during one of his rants.

[DJ's left nut]

That wasn’t in reference to Fenton specifically moron. I’m talking about the “fire Veach!!” stuff. It’s how DJ acts every year when he doesn’t get what he wants on draft day. If you’re suggesting that DJ hasn’t acted like that before, you are 100% wrong.

It. Uh. WAS in reference to Fenton specifically after you first insisted that I bitched about the picks we made in 2019 and then weirdly picked a guy who I'm pretty sure I never said a single word about during the draft to support that argument.

Now you're just trying to save face. Poorly, at that.

Yeah, I get heated at times with the front office; sometimes right, sometimes wrong. Never argued otherwise. You, OTOH, call anyone that disagrees with you a fucking fuckball fucktard. I mean hell, evidently I can't disagree with Andy Reid and NOBODY can disagree with staylor26.

So we all have our crosses to bear...

[staylor26]

The irony of you demanding we consider the relativity of any situation and then seizing on the line 'night and day better' when discussing a 6th round pick vs. a UDFA as evidence that I eviscerated Brett Veach for a 3rd day pick should really not be lost on you...

That’s not really what I was trying to do. I was just giving an example of you thinking Veach 100% got it wrong when he actually got it right. Fenton was a huge steal that you so easily dismissed early on because he wasn’t your guy.

I know you weren’t nearly as upset about the Fenton pick as you were the Clark trade and some of his other moves though.

[RunKC]

Saying you don't like a certain move doesn't necessarily mean you want to blow things up and fire everyone though.

Atleast when I say it it doesn't, I only speak for o.city though.

Veach was pretty much placed on the hot seat by a lot of posters here, including me for a time.

Things have changed this year and it looks like he actually can draft and find talent in value areas after all!

That’s good shit for us

TLDR; Veach fucked up on compensation for Clark, did really well with value players to make up for it.

[staylor26]

It. Uh. WAS in reference to Fenton specifically after you first insisted that I bitched about the picks we made in 2019 and then weirdly picked a guy who I'm pretty sure I never said a single word about during the draft to support that argument.

Now you're just trying to save face. Poorly, at that.

Yeah, I get heated at times with the front office; sometimes right, sometimes wrong. Never argued otherwise. You, OTOH, call anyone that disagrees with you a fucking fuckball fucktard. I mean hell, evidently I can't disagree with Andy Reid and NOBODY can disagree with staylor26.

So we all have our crosses to bear...

I thought you hated the 2019 draft because of how upset you were about the offseason Veach had. I guess you didn’t, but you clearly didn’t think it was going to be as good as it was either. You were far from praising it.

[DJ's left nut]

No he has actually called for the firing of Veach or at least it was implied during one of his rants.

I believe both.

Brett Veach has had an EASY job his first 2 years after he inherited a team full of star skill position players in their prime and an extremely clean cap situation (even with all the hand-wringing over Dorsey's poor cap management).

And with that he's burned a TON of cap space on effectively nothing and even the big money deal that hasn't blown up in his face could've/should've been made the year prior when Mathieu was looking for ANYONE that would give him 4/$40 million after he was cut by the Cardinals.

I've definitely implied it - or at least suggested that there are conditions that would make it the right move. If this team ends up in cap hell within 2 seasons of Mahomes contract being in place because of all the money they torched on ill-conceived contracts for luxury items and vanity picks, then yes - Brett Veach should be fired. And it will be because of decisions in his rearview at that time.

We shall see. Those decisions have already been made and can't be un-made. They can be mitigated in a HUGE way if Watkins and/or Clark come up big in the playoffs. Or if Hitchens can show more growth and make his contract more palatable this season and next.

But if he continues to show that he has an eye for undervalued assets like Ogbah, Wilson and Ward, guys who can at least partially offset his busted big ticket items - well I suppose that makes him break even in the end.

But let's not act like Veach is the architect of this machine - what he's done these last 2 years has largely been to coast on a foundation put in place by his predecessor(s) in Dorsey and Ballard. We're getting more returns in on his ledger and they aren't what's driving this franchise forward. They need to be in short order.

[DJ's left nut]

I thought you hated the 2019 draft because of how upset you were about the offseason Veach had. I guess you didn’t, but you clearly didn’t think it was going to be as good as it was either. You were far from praising it.

I absolutely praised the selections themselves. I specifically cited the Thornhill and Saunders picks as nice gets. My only disagreement on Thornhill leading into the draft was with the idea that he should be a 1st rounder for us - I liked the selection in the 2nd.

I think I was frustrated with the Hardman pick because the Titans took a guy I thought would be an excellent long-term Sam for us (one of the few I saw in the draft) in De'Andre Walker with our pick and that was simply rubbing salt in the wound. I was find standing pat and going with JJ, Campbell, McLaurin or Boykin and then using that pick on Walker. Walker's on the IR so point become moot (but McLaurin has looked like a stud).

I believe I said so specifically somewhere in the draft forum (or maybe the mock) because someone just flat out asked me. When adjusted for the picks we ACTUALLY HAD and independent of the wrong-headed decision to sacrifice that draft capital so we could give a contract to Frank Clark that he never deserved, I thought the draft was solid overall.

[DJ's left nut]

That’s not really what I was trying to do. I was just giving an example of you thinking Veach 100% got it wrong when he actually got it right. Fenton was a huge steal that you so easily dismissed early on because he wasn’t your guy.

I know you weren’t nearly as upset about the Fenton pick as you were the Clark trade and some of his other moves though.

And my point is that, my ultimate preferences be damned, I don't believe anyone gets anything right OR wrong in the 6th round or later. I rarely even get too worked up in the 5th unless I have an eye on someone who I think is sliding for the wrong reasons.

It's blind, dumb luck by and large.

How is saying that Fields has looked like a better player to that point some kind of withering indictment of the decision Brett Veach made? Not the pick I'd have made, but it's a full court heave anyway so who gives a shit? There's no skill involved in hitting a full-court shot - either you were extremely lucky that day or you're everyone else.

It's the paradox of skill at work - at a certain point, when everyone in a zero sum scenario are at least nominally qualified, the skill cancels out and a disproportionate amount of the results are attributable to luck. By the 6th round, that's mostly what you're looking at because there's even LESS to differentiate these guys.

[PAChiefsGuy]

There are levels to everything.

Being critical is fine.

But when it comes to late round picks versus UDFA’s that no fan has even come close to matching in terms of homework down maybe just maybe give them the benefit of the doubt before saying one guy is “night and day better” than the other?

And hold off on saying we should fire the GM of a more than competent organization beofre his second draft class even touches the field?

What y’all are saying is at no point is it ok to say maybe we should just trust the pros on this one because we lack the information to judge so quickly?

Jury is still out on Veach but I haven't been impressed so far. I know that upsets you but I don't care. Any GM who trades a 1st and 2nd rd pick then gives a guy a $105 million contract when we already had a good pass rusher is not going to be looked on favorably unless he kills it in the draft. Again, have to wait and see how rest of the year goes to come to any objective conclusion on Veach but jury is still out.

Personally I hope Clark comes back and kills it a long with rest of Veachs picks because I want what is best for the Chiefs but I just don't see it w Clark. I think he is overrated, possibly injury prone and was simply in the perfect system for him in Seattle. We'll see what happens, hopefully I am wrong!

[duncan_idaho]

Jury is still out on Veach but I haven't been impressed so far. I know that upsets you but I don't care. Any GM who trades a 1st and 2nd rd pick then gives a guy a $105 million contract when we already had a good pass rusher is not going to be looked on favorably unless he kills it in the draft. Again, have to wait and see how rest of the year goes to come to any objective conclusion on Veach but jury is still out.

Personally I hope Clark comes back and kills it a long with rest of Veachs picks because I want what is best for the Chiefs but I just don't see it w Clark. I think he is overrated, possibly injury prone and was simply in the perfect system for him in Seattle. We'll see what happens, hopefully I am wrong!


If only you’d ever held your boi Alex Smith to the standard you hold Veach and Clark. They’re both worlds better at their jobs than Smith ever was.

[PAChiefsGuy]

If only you’d ever held your boi Alex Smith to the standard you hold Veach and Clark. They’re both worlds better at their jobs than Smith ever was.

If only you would learn how to move on and not obsess about a player who isnt on the team. Then you wouldnt bring up a QB who left the Chiefs years ago in a thread about an defensive end

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Jury is still out on Veach but I haven't been impressed so far. I know that upsets you but I don't care. Any GM who trades a 1st and 2nd rd pick then gives a guy a $105 million contract when we already had a good pass rusher is not going to be looked on favorably unless he kills it in the draft. Again, have to wait and see how rest of the year goes to come to any objective conclusion on Veach but jury is still out.

Personally I hope Clark comes back and kills it a long with rest of Veachs picks because I want what is best for the Chiefs but I just don't see it w Clark. I think he is overrated, possibly injury prone and was simply in the perfect system for him in Seattle. We'll see what happens, hopefully I am wrong!

Ford? Who only plays on 2nd or 3rd and long in SF, because he sucks against the run, or Houston who refused to renegotiate his contract and was "rumored" to not be a great teammate in the locker room?

Which one?

[-King-]

Ford? Who only plays on 2nd or 3rd and long in SF, because he sucks against the run, or Houston who refused to renegotiate his contract and was "rumored" to not be a great teammate in the locker room?

Which one?

Houston refused a paycut like anyone else would. He would have restructured his deal though and we would be in a much better place if we had offered him a restructure.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

The hindsight in this thread is incredible... Most folks were pumped when we signed Clark as he was better than Ford and played well against the run. He has under performed this year as he appears banged up but doesn't sit like Ford did when he was hurt. I also think you are underestimating the change in attitude that the Honey Badger and Clark have brought to the Defense this year. We are nastier than last year in attitude and it is now really showing up. I expect Frank to be just fine when he comes back and this thread will not age will. JMO

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Houston refused a paycut like anyone else would. He would have restructured his deal though and we would be in a much better place if we had offered him a restructure.

Don't be naive. If Houston would have wanted to be here he would have been here as we would have kept him for his Indy deal...

[BryanBusby]

If only you would learn how to move on and not obsess about a player who isnt on the team. Then you wouldnt bring up a QB who left the Chiefs years ago in a thread about an defensive end
Maybe you should take your own fucking advice, ya?

[-King-]

Don't be naive. If Houston would have wanted to be here he would have been here as we would have kept him for his Indy deal...

The paycut he was asked to take would have got him less money than he got from the colts this season.

[-King-]

The hindsight in this thread is incredible... Most folks were pumped when we signed Clark as he was better than Ford and played well against the run. He has under performed this year as he appears banged up but doesn't sit like Ford did when he was hurt. I also think you are underestimating the change in attitude that the Honey Badger and Clark have brought to the Defense this year. We are nastier than last year in attitude and it is now really showing up. I expect Frank to be just fine when he comes back and this thread will not age will. JMO

Uh you should look at the Frank Clark thread when we got him. Most people weren't pumped and thought we overpaid. It's not really a bunch of hindsight going on.

[staylor26]

Uh you should look at the Frank Clark thread when we got him. Most people weren't pumped and thought we overpaid. It's not really a bunch of hindsight going on.

There’s a huge difference between complaining about compensation and bad mouthing the player.

Most people thought we were at least getting a very good player.

Now they’re pretending it wasn’t just about the compensation and they knew Clark would disappoint like this.

[O.city]

There’s a huge difference between complaining about compensation and bad mouthing the player.

Most people thought we were at least getting a very good player.

Now they’re pretending it wasn’t just about the compensation and they knew Clark would disappoint like this.

You know if he was playing well people wouldn't be upset about it?

He was supposed to be durable and a better player than what they had. That hasn't lined up yet.

[-King-]

There’s a huge difference between complaining about compensation and bad mouthing the player.

Most people thought we were at least getting a very good player.

Now they’re pretending it wasn’t just about the compensation and they knew Clark would disappoint like this.
Sure. And this season he hasn't been a good player. Most people would have dealt with the compensation if he would have came in and been on pace for 13 sacks like he did last year. But he's on pace for less than 6. So now the compensation looks even worse than originally thought.

[RunKC]

The hindsight in this thread is incredible... Most folks were pumped when we signed Clark as he was better than Ford and played well against the run. He has under performed this year as he appears banged up but doesn't sit like Ford did when he was hurt. I also think you are underestimating the change in attitude that the Honey Badger and Clark have brought to the Defense this year. We are nastier than last year in attitude and it is now really showing up. I expect Frank to be just fine when he comes back and this thread will not age will. JMO

It’s just King pussy being a contrarian.

Houston quickly went south as soon as he got paid. He only played 43 of 63 possible games once he got that mega deal. His knee was permanently damaged, he was 30 and he had to have teammates motivate him to do something in critical times despite him “supposably” being the leader.

DJLN will tell you himself that there was a discussion last year about Houston being lazy and not being as good of a run defender as he usually was.

The whole mindset change this franchise wanted was basically aimed at him.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, I'm not on the 'we should've kept Houston at his price' train. I was intrigued to see if he could be brought back on a new deal because I thought he was interesting as a strong side DE in this scheme (which isn't being run at ALL like I thought it would be anyway). Houston doesn't appear to have been interested - c'est la vie.

But Houston wasn't the only option and giving up what we gave up for Clark AND signing him to that deal was among the worst possible options available to us. I'd have rather spent that money on Jones, drafted Murphy and then rolled with Ogbah, K-Pass, Okafor and Speaks.

It wouldn't have been a great DL - in fact it would very probably be worse than what we have. But we'd have Jones locked up, a young CB in hand and a far cleaner path forward from here. Instead we're left with "Man, I really hope Clark unfucks himself..." and that's a pretty nasty spot to find oneself in...

[PAChiefsGuy]

Maybe you should take your own ****ing advice, ya?

I havent posted about Alex Smith since he left you dumb fuck

[DJ's left nut]

I thought you hated the 2019 draft because of how upset you were about the offseason Veach had. I guess you didn’t, but you clearly didn’t think it was going to be as good as it was either. You were far from praising it.

Here's the thread I was trying to recall:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=14256379&postcount=1015

So my actual draft wouldn't have been a whole lot different from what KC did (especially getting Fields as a UDFA). From a strictly draft standpoint, I kinda like the Chiefs draft, even if I'd have done a few things differently. I'm still struggling with how much they gave up to get Clark though.

No - I don't just shit on everything this team does. Nor do I give an opinion without (far) too many words on the subject. I rarely say something is stupid without going on record with what I'd have done instead and why I'd have done it.

Do I get 'em all right? Nope - nor has any executive in football history. But I'm not just this high and mighty, hypercritical ass you believe me to be. I'll view a decision on its face and respond accordingly. It's had me well ahead of this franchise on numerous occasions and would've properly fucked the organization on others. So what? I'll be damned if I'm just gonna cede my opinion to the people in charge strictly on the basis that they're in charge.

[-King-]

It’s just King pussy being a contrarian.

Houston quickly went south as soon as he got paid. He only played 43 of 63 possible games once he got that mega deal. His knee was permanently damaged, he was 30 and he had to have teammates motivate him to do something in critical times despite him “supposably” being the leader.

DJLN will tell you himself that there was a discussion last year about Houston being lazy and not being as good of a run defender as he usually was.

The whole mindset change this franchise wanted was basically aimed at him.

I'm a contrarian because I'd rather have a player who had 9 sacks last year and is on pace 12 this year over a player who had 23 sacks last year and is on pace for 5 this year and cost us a 1st and 2nd round pick? Ok.


By the way, you never answered my question. You kept pointing out how much better the defense and run defense got after Chris Jones got injured. How come I haven't seen you doing that when it comes to Clark? We had our best game defensively on Sunday and Jones was a major contributor and Clark was on the sideline. Why haven't you used that same logic against Clark?

[BryanBusby]

I havent posted about Alex Smith since he left you dumb fuck
You're now busy talking about another former player.

So once again, take your own fuckin' advice. Retard.

[KCUnited]

I had staylors back when he was dealing with titty meat, and this is the thanks I get.


Nothing to add other than this sentence captures the essence of CP perfectly.

[staylor26]

I’m still trying to figure out how O.City had my back against Billay...

[O.city]

I always cheer for you when you're battling billay.

[DJ's left nut]

I’m still trying to figure out how O.City had my back against Billay...

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone would need backup against Billay.

I mean...it's Billay

[staylor26]

I always cheer for you when you're battling billay.

Well you need to make it a little more obvious next time, k?

[staylor26]

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone would need backup against Billay.

I mean...it's Billay

Touché

Billay was giving me shit weeks ago for saying Nnadi was a good pick. I’m pretty sure he’s the only person who doesn’t think he was lol

[DJ's left nut]

Touché

Billay was giving me shit weeks ago for saying Nnadi was a good pick. I’m pretty sure he’s the only person who doesn’t think he was lol

I think I stepped in front of that bullet after the Colts game because RunKC was flipping you shit for backing Nnadi and I had to defend him after a game that was probably the worst game of his career. It was admittedly terrible and all I could really say was "yeah...that was bad. Maybe this is what he was thinkin'..."

Maybe it was the Houston game.

Nnadi is my big sweet boy - I won't sally anyone trying to shit on him. Getting guys like him on the 2nd day with regularity is how you build a consistent winner.

EDIT: It was Mecca after the Houston game.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=14527743&postcount=55

Nnadi's a good player who had a rough day but these things happen. He's a big part of this defense.

[staylor26]

I think I stepped in front of that bullet after the Colts game because RunKC was flipping you shit for backing Nnadi and I had to defend him after a game that was probably the worst game of his career. It was admittedly terrible and all I could really say was "yeah...that was bad. Maybe this is what he was thinkin'..."

Maybe it was the Houston game.

Nnadi is my big sweet boy - I won't sally anyone trying to shit on him. Getting guys like him on the 2nd day with regularity is how you build a consistent winner.

I can’t lie part of me was like “what the fuck is going on with Nnadi? Was I wrong about him?”, because he definitely got off to a low start this year, but boy did he show up big time on Sunday.

And you’re right he’s such a good guy it’s hard not to defend him either way.

[Beef Supreme]

I’m still trying to figure out how O.City had my back against Billay...

I chose to interpret that to mean you were dealing with actual titty meat, not a poster on CP.

[New World Order]

Man if Clark can come back and be a force this d is capable of being top 10.

We're so clooooooose.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Man if Clark can come back and be a force this d is capable of being top 10.

We're so clooooooose.

I hope so man.. Hitchens is finally playing well so I'm hoping Clark was just struggling w the new D for whatever reason but hopefully when he gets back he will finally get things going.

You're now busy talking about another former player.

So once again, take your own ****in' advice. Retard.

Posting about a pass rusher that used to be on the team less than a year ago in a thread about his replacement is totally understandable. I don't see how you can compare that to a post about my posts about Alex Smith from years ago.

[RealSNR]

Stop it, DJ and staylor.

You're both pretty.

[DJ's left nut]

Stop it, DJ and staylor.

You're both pretty.

Staylor has a dumpy butt.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

You'll just keep assuming that everything the Chiefs do is the best thing that could've been done.

And in what fucking warped universe does this strategy have a lick of sense or truck? The correct outlook is to assume everything they do is pure shit until proven otherwise.

Final Football Thought of the Day:

If Andy Reid is a QB "genius", then Alex Cassel was the worst fucking Quarterback in the history of mankind.

[RealSNR]

And in what fucking warped universe does this strategy have a lick of sense or truck? The correct outlook is to assume everything they do is pure shit until proven otherwise.

Final Football Thought of the Day:

If Andy Reid is a QB "genius", then Alex Cassel was the worst fucking Quarterback in the history of mankind.

Dude, you're beyond help if you refuse to acknowledge that Andy Reid is perhaps the greatest head coach in NFL history at getting the most out of deficient QBs. And he just did it again with freaking Matt Moore.

He's a QB genius.

[dlphg9]

Dude, you're beyond help if you refuse to acknowledge that Andy Reid is perhaps the greatest head coach in NFL history at getting the most out of deficient QBs. And he just did it again with freaking Matt Moore.

He's a QB genius.

He has to keep up his Andy Reid is awful look. Really makes him look like a complete fucking idiot.

[Sassy Squatch]

One look around the league should tell you we have it fucking made with Reid. Holy shit, there are some terribad coaches fucking up young QBs nowadays.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Go away & come back stronger or more versatile is the trend

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Hope you guys realize Clark is 2nd on the team in tackles for loss with 6 and leads the team in forced fumbles with 2.

And he's just getting started.

[RunKC]

By the way, you never answered my question. You kept pointing out how much better the defense and run defense got after Chris Jones got injured. How come I haven't seen you doing that when it comes to Clark? We had our best game defensively on Sunday and Jones was a major contributor and Clark was on the sideline. Why haven't you used that same logic against Clark?

Clark was never a problem with run defense. He held the edge just fine. The Chiefs kept getting ass raped up the middle when Xavier Williams and Chris Jones were lined up.

It changed when we put more beef up front with Saunders and Pennel.

See for yourself:



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/Vikings?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@vikings</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/dalvincook?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dalvincook</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@chiefs</a> played their best run defense of the season to limit the <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFL</a> leading rusher. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BigTime?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BigTime</a> performances from <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Nnadi?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Nnadi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pennel?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pennel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CJones?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CJones</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ivie?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ivie</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Saunders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Saunders</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tanoh?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Tanoh</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ogbah?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ogbah</a>. The won the LOS all afternoon <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BaldysBreakdowns?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BaldysBreakdowns</a> <a href="https://t.co/F78hqBoNc0">pic.twitter.com/F78hqBoNc0</a></p>&mdash; Brian Baldinger (@BaldyNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1191362072967307264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Pasta Little Brioni]

King is clueless, dude

[Warpaint69]

Clark was never a problem with run defense. He held the edge just fine. The Chiefs kept getting ass raped up the middle when Xavier Williams and Chris Jones were lined up.

It changed when we put more beef up front with Saunders and Pennel.

See for yourself:



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/Vikings?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@vikings</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/dalvincook?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@dalvincook</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/Chiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@chiefs</a> played their best run defense of the season to limit the <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFL</a> leading rusher. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BigTime?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BigTime</a> performances from <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Nnadi?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Nnadi</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pennel?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pennel</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CJones?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CJones</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ivie?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ivie</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Saunders?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Saunders</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Tanoh?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Tanoh</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ogbah?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ogbah</a>. The won the LOS all afternoon <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BaldysBreakdowns?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BaldysBreakdowns</a> <a href="https://t.co/F78hqBoNc0">pic.twitter.com/F78hqBoNc0</a></p>&mdash; Brian Baldinger (@BaldyNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1191362072967307264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Xavier Williams was terrible.

[The Franchise]

I think I stepped in front of that bullet after the Colts game because RunKC was flipping you shit for backing Nnadi and I had to defend him after a game that was probably the worst game of his career. It was admittedly terrible and all I could really say was "yeah...that was bad. Maybe this is what he was thinkin'..."

Maybe it was the Houston game.

Nnadi is my big sweet boy - I won't sally anyone trying to shit on him. Getting guys like him on the 2nd day with regularity is how you build a consistent winner.

EDIT: It was Mecca after the Houston game.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=14527743&postcount=55

Nnadi's a good player who had a rough day but these things happen. He's a big part of this defense.

And it’s early but Saunders is looking just as good too.

[staylor26]

And it’s early but Saunders is looking just as good too.

I’m absolutely in love with the Saunders/Nnadi combo.

It’s amazing.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Hope you guys realize Clark is 2nd on the team in tackles for loss with 6 and leads the team in forced fumbles with 2.

And he's just getting started.

Yeah because that is why we signed him to a $105 million contract and traded a 1st and 2nd rd pick. So he can get 2 forced fumbles and lead the team in tackles for loss w 6!

[RunKC]

I want them to play Jones at end on early downs and move him inside on passing situations the rest of the season.

Think that’s a much better fit for him. He was bossing Rudolph and taking away the edge.

Nnandi, Saunders and Pennel inside on early downs.

[DJ's left nut]

I’m absolutely in love with the Saunders/Nnadi combo.

It’s amazing.

A defensive front 4 of

Jones - Nnadi - Saunders - Clark

W/ Pennel/Ivey rotating in the middle and Ogbah/K-pass rotating at ends (both of whom have been better than Okafor) would be awfully tough to deal with.

Jones just seems more responsible vs. the run when he's on the edge than he is on the interior. It's almost like he's just trying too hard to get pressure and sells out to do so.

That's just a damn 'heavy' line and should be awfully sound against the run. And with that kind of mass you can just create problems for quarterbacks by simply barreling into linemen.

But you put Jones out there at end that often and he hits a different tax bracket. You're going to struggle more than ever to keep him here long-term if he can establish himself as a viable edge defender. Hell, I'm pretty sure it would even make him more expensive on the tag.

But I think that's a pretty viable early down configuration and probably the best group we can put out there.

[DJ's left nut]

I want them to play Jones at end on early downs and move him inside on passing situations the rest of the season.

Think that’s a much better fit for him. He was bossing Rudolph and taking away the edge.

Nnandi, Saunders and Pennel inside on early downs.

Well shit...repost.

Mine's still better.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Pennell is a tank

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I want Jones at DE!!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Jones controlling a pair of blockers along the edge, allowing Ragland to get there without being sealed off and forcing Cook to cut back.<br><br>Jones is a monster on the edge vs the run. <a href="https://t.co/WsxSd0jooT">pic.twitter.com/WsxSd0jooT</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1192122706872938496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Jones with his hand out of the dirt!! This is what we’ve wanted from Jones!! Be unselfish

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Jones on the edge... way too strong for a TE, which allows him to absorb 2 blockers and leaves Ward completely free.<br><br>They really, really ought to consider keeping him on the edge frequently even when Clark/Okafor return provided the interior keeps playing well. <a href="https://t.co/voGt0IWVR9">pic.twitter.com/voGt0IWVR9</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1191894729513979904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[dlphg9]

I want Jones at DE!!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Jones controlling a pair of blockers along the edge, allowing Ragland to get there without being sealed off and forcing Cook to cut back.<br><br>Jones is a monster on the edge vs the run. <a href="https://t.co/WsxSd0jooT">pic.twitter.com/WsxSd0jooT</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1192122706872938496?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Jones with his hand out of the dirt!! This is what we’ve wanted from Jones!! Be unselfish

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Jones on the edge... way too strong for a TE, which allows him to absorb 2 blockers and leaves Ward completely free.<br><br>They really, really ought to consider keeping him on the edge frequently even when Clark/Okafor return provided the interior keeps playing well. <a href="https://t.co/voGt0IWVR9">pic.twitter.com/voGt0IWVR9</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1191894729513979904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I really don't understand how you and some other idiots have come to the conclusion that Jones is selfish. Maybe he's just better suited to play at end, but to say hes selfish or undisciplined is fucking retarded.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

I really don't understand how you and some other idiots have come to the conclusion that Jones is selfish. Maybe he's just better suited to play at end, but to say hes selfish or undisciplined is ****ing retarded.

Jones would be selfish because he was more concerned about making the big play than playing his assignment. Honey Badger called out the defense, made it seem like he was referring to Jones without mentioning his name. But Jones should be a DE and you can easily play him inside as well. I’d pay him Frank Clark money now!

[Two-Twenty]

This Chris Jones contract situation has been handled horribly. Hes been good for the duration. Pay him. Chiefs insulted him by paying Frank Clark 1st and now he will cost even more money than before.

[Buckweath]

Chris Jones is worth 18M per season. Maybe 19M if he pushes hard for it.

I'm sure they will reach an agreement sooner or later.

[suzzer99]

He's not going to take a penny less than Clark.

[Aspengc8]

He's not going to take a penny less than Clark.

And he won't have to. Cap is gonna go up and there will have room from Watkins and Sorensen going bye-bye.

[suzzer99]

We have plenty of room to sign him now. The fact that it hasn't happened yet makes me think they're still pretty far apart.

[Hammock Parties]

LMAO

holy fuck, Chris Jones in a two-point stance

Spags is a FUCKING GENIOUS FOLKS

[Hammock Parties]

im fucking lit dudes

those no talent assclowns on that NE offense are going to get BUTTFUCKED

[Halfcan]

When is Clark playing again?

[Megatron96]

When is Clark playing again?

He was full practice today

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

He was full practice today

Limited actually

[Megatron96]

Limited actually

Oh. I thought I read that he went full. Whatever. Good catch.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Kinda random here but I’m not sure that it’s been brought up.

Clowney currently has 2 sacks on the season for a pretty bad defense.... I only bring this up because I’ve seen many cite the Clark move and say that they should have gotten Clowney.

Well... he’s been pretty damn underwhelming himself.

[dlphg9]

Kinda random here but I’m not sure that it’s been brought up.

Clowney currently has 2 sacks on the season for a pretty bad defense.... I only bring this up because I’ve seen many cite the Clark move and say that they should have gotten Clowney.

Well... he’s been pretty damn underwhelming himself.

Well look at the compensation Seattle gave up for him and then look at what we gave up for Clark. If take the Clowney trade over the Clark trade and even if Clark was playing like he did last year, I still would rather do the Clowney trade.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Well look at the compensation Seattle gave up for him and then look at what we gave up for Clark. If take the Clowney trade over the Clark trade and even if Clark was playing like he did last year, I still would rather do the Clowney trade.

Yep. It's not even close really

The Seattle Seahawks reeled in a huge fish without using much bait.

NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported Saturday that the Seahawks traded for Houston Texans franchise-tagged pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney in exchange for a third-round pick, linebacker Jacob Martin and pass rusher Barkevious Mingo, per sources informed of the situation.

Per NFL Network's Tom Pelissero, the Texans agreed to pay $7 million toward Clowney's salary to complete yesterday's trade with the Seahawks, who agreed not to franchise tag Clowney a second time next year, per source.

The trade is a coup for Seahawks general manager John Schneider.

Not only did the Seahawks secure a pass rusher who fits perfectly into Pete Carroll's system, but didn't have to break up their offensive line or give up a prominent piece to get Clowney. And if Clowney leaves in free agency -- the team can't begin negotiations on any potential long-term deal until after the season -- Seattle could recoup that third-rounder with a compensatory pick.

[duncan_idaho]

Comparing the compensation for Clowney and Clark is minimally useful.

If you truly believe the Texans would have traded Clowney in Conference, to a team they are contending against, like the Chiefs, for the same price, I think you’re way off base.

The Chiefs would have paid a premium for Clowney compared to the Seahawks (there’s also the matter of timing - The Texans had fewer bidders than the Seahawks).

[ChiTown]

He was full practice today

Chiefs Website says LP for Wednesday, not FP. FYI

[staylor26]

Comparing the compensation for Clowney and Clark is minimally useful.

If you truly believe the Texans would have traded Clowney in Conference, to a team they are contending against, like the Chiefs, for the same price, I think you’re way off base.

The Chiefs would have paid a premium for Clowney compared to the Seahawks (there’s also the matter of timing - The Texans has fewer bidders than the Seahawks).

Besides, it’s been reported that the Texans offered us Clowney for similar compensation (1st & 2nd) before we traded for Clark.

But we were somehow supposed to know they would end up with no GM and that price would drop to a 3rd?