Frank Clark fucking sucks

[RealSNR]

Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.

[Molitoth]

So far the entire team is a stinky asshole.

[lewdog]

Jesus man.

Grab a tampon, put on some classical music and calm the fuck down.

[dlphg9]

Yep Frank got paid and now Frank has been playing like shit.

[Molitoth]

May be a Spags thing... lets watch how it goes.

[New World Order]

I'ts been frustrating so far.

[Iconic]

Watched Houston briefly and he looks 10x better than Clark. Already has a sack too.

[Jewish Rabbi]

Eagerly awaiting two sacks from him today because of this thread!

[jjchieffan]

You must be thrilled SNR. You were against the trade from the beginning. He's not doing good to start the season, so now you get to thump your chest and say I told you so. Yay. The rest of us would rather see the Chiefs play well as a team. But, at least you get to feel justified.

[lewdog]

SNR is weaker than a non-vaccinated child against measles.

[Aspengc8]

good thing hes not getting doubled or chipped often, right?

[kcclone]

So far, he hasn’t done crap.

Hopefully he settles in and hits his stride this year because we’ll need him.

[Jewish Rabbi]

NICE TFL BY CLARK!!!

[poolboy]

Yeah, he looks slower, hopefully not injured

[lewdog]

TFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YontsRBake]

This thread is very premature.

[Aspengc8]

This thread is very premature.

unfortunately here on CP, if you dont get a sack, your an immediate bust and garbage.

[ChiefaRoo]

Clark will be fine.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Deberg-style thread

[scho63]

CHILL THE FUCK OUT!

CP-The home of the over reactors

[jonzie04]

Edit, Thought I was in the game thread.

[TLO]

HBF, SNR.

[Flying High D]

Where the hell am I?

[Blick]

unfortunately here on CP, if you dont get a sack, your an immediate bust and garbage.

So true

[cabletech94]

what's going on in here?

never trust a man with 2 first names.

frank clark is okay. we'll be fine.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Clark destroyed the RB in the back field and is the emotional leader along side Chris Jones. D is still finding its footing under the new scheme but had and had a good second quarter. We're OK.

Mahomes is the greatest player I've ever watched. Period.

[CasselGotPeedOn]

I have a feeling this thread is gonna be bumped a few times this season....

[Flying High D]

We got you to be Superman not Kent Clark.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Never go Rerun ;)

[Hammock Parties]

Thanks. Clark is going to have 4 sacks next week.

[Deberg_1990]

This defense won’t have as many sacks as last year. But it will be a better, more sound defense

[Kman34]

He has a INT..??

[Chief Roundup]

Relax it is only week 2......

[eDave]

He's playing his part.

[RealSNR]

You must be thrilled SNR. You were against the trade from the beginning. He's not doing good to start the season, so now you get to thump your chest and say I told you so. Yay. The rest of us would rather see the Chiefs play well as a team. But, at least you get to feel justified.


You’ve got a lot of nerve saying I put my ego before the team, you drooling retard.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

One thing I can’t question is his effort and intensity.

He’s drawing lots of double teams so sacks are going to be tough unless we have big leads consistently. But he’s helping other guys get 1-on-1s, and that is helping in itself.

[St. Patty's Fire]

Raiders o line is much better than last year

Wbf

[Hammock Parties]

This defense has given up 23 points in the course of actual competitive football the last two weeks.

We seriously need to be appreciative at the moment.

[eDave]

One thing I can’t question is his effort and intensity.

He’s drawing lots of double teams so sacks are going to be tough unless we have big leads consistently. But he’s helping other guys get 1-on-1s, and that is helping in itself.

That.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

When your MVP QB has a bad wheel, play soft. Not saying it was planned

[GermanChiefFan]

Panic Mode... he can Play better But it is week 2. Both Jac and Oak focused on him so this opens up the Chance for other Players to make Plays. He will get his Sacks Bit i couldnt care less about stats.

[keg in kc]

And then the first quarter ended and the Raiders were shut out for 45 minutes.

I'll take it, sacks or not.

[jonzie04]

He’s good, just not worth what we gave up for him. I said it when we traded for him, and I’ll say it now. He’s not any better than Dee Ford, and we would have been better off keeping Ford and a first round pick.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

This defense has given up 23 points in the course of actual competitive football the last two weeks.

We seriously need to be appreciative at the moment.


Yes. It was 37-19 late when JAX scored. Garbage time. I agree completely.

[Chiefs=Champions]

Clark was getting chipped and doubled a LOT today. As long as other guys are making the plays off the one on ones - im fine with it.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

What a dumb fucking thread ROFL

[KCUnited]

I’ll wait til tomorrow to bring up that he’s tied with Jalen Ramsey for sacks.

[In58men]

Dude didn’t do shit and got a lucky tip drill INT

[DTVietnam]

Honey Badger sucks worse. .

got beat bad a few times today

[dlphg9]

Frank Clark hasnt been good at all. Had one good play, but other than that he's been pretty below average. For a guy that we gave up a 1st round draft pick for and $100 mil he's not doing what he needs to. Then you look at Chris Jones who is actually producing and getting fucked around by the team. He had 5 tackles 3 QB Hits and 1 sack. If we don't sign Chris Jones because of Frank Clark I'm going to be pissed.

[petegz28]

Jesus man.

Grab a tampon, put on some classical music and calm the fuck down.^

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Sassy Squatch]

He doesn't suck, but he's nowhere near the DPOY candidate we need.

[Mahomes_Is_God]

Our D only allowed 10 points. Shut the **** up bitch. The whining is insufferable.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Clark is drawing double teams. Can everyone stfu

[WhawhaWhat]

Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aTyCYXgNm55wDjq/giphy.gif

[Flying High D]

He’s good, just not worth what we gave up for him. I said it when we traded for him, and I’ll say it now. He’s not any better than Dee Ford, and we would have been better off keeping Ford and a first round pick.

Ford didn’t know how to line up. Pee Wee football teams go whole seasons without lining up offsides. Same can’t be said for that brokedick Ford.

[Flying High D]

Honey Badger sucks worse. .

got beat bad a few times today

That was expected, you have to take the good with the bad. In this case the honey is good golden the badger not so much. Badger be smelling sometimes.

[Jewish Rabbi]

That was expected, you have to take the good with the bad. In this case the honey is good golden the badger not so much. Badger be smelling sometimes.

What the fuck does this even mean?

[Chief Northman]

Mathieu was awful. Looked like he was avoiding contact. He needs to shut up on social media and just be a football player.

Fuller, Breeland, Ward, KPass and Jones stood out defensively.

[Flying High D]

Clark is drawing double teams. Can everyone stfu

Mostly saw him doing the do-si-do with the opposing tackle, perfected by the former in-house do-si-do expert Allen Bailey.

[dlphg9]

What the **** does this even mean?

Im assuming he's drunk.

[kcjayhawks5]

Can we lock this thread?

[TwistedChief]

That was expected, you have to take the good with the bad. In this case the honey is good golden the badger not so much. Badger be smelling sometimes.

ROFL Yes.

[Flying High D]

Mathieu was awful. Looked like he was avoiding contact. He needs to shut up on social media and just be a football player.

Fuller, Breeland, Ward, KPass and Jones stood out defensively.

When he’s doing that he is channeling his inner Justin Houston spirit onto the field of play.

[tredadda]

He’s good, just not worth what we gave up for him. I said it when we traded for him, and I’ll say it now. He’s not any better than Dee Ford, and we would have been better off keeping Ford and a first round pick.

No we wouldn’t.

[dlphg9]

Our D only allowed 10 points. Shut the **** up bitch. The whining is insufferable.

There's a difference between whining and being critical. You don't seem to have the brain capacity to distinguish between the two. I don't see anyone complaining about how well the D did, so what the fuck does them allowing 10 points have to do with anything? Using your logic, then people are being whiny when they say our OL sucks.

The Chiefs gave up a fuck ton to get Frank N Beans, so he needs to perform. If we don't sign Jones long term it's because we gave Clark a big contract. I'd rather have Justin Houston than Clark and would take Dee Ford, a 1st round pick, and that $100 mil over Clark.

Clark is drawing double teams. Can everyone stfu

I don't care what he's facing, he needs to be better. All these guys get doubled, but they still over come. He was on a much worse D line last year, so I'm sure he was double teamed, but he still produced.

And I'm tired of people using the let him adjust to the scheme! Well I was under the impression that Spags D let these guys just go out and play football and not worry about the scheme so much. He's gotta play better.

[dlphg9]

No we wouldn’t.

We'd be better off with just the 1st rounder. Justin Houston or Dee Ford would be icing on the cake.

[Raiderhater]

He’s good, just not worth what we gave up for him. I said it when we traded for him, and I’ll say it now. He’s not any better than Dee Ford, and we would have been better off keeping Ford and a first round pick.

:bong:

[dlphg9]

How offended some of you get over any type of criticism blows my mind. I can only imagine how big of pussies some of you must be in the real world by your reactions to criticism of a football player.

[Bowser]

ERMAGHERD NO SERRK IN TERR GERRRMS

[smithandrew051]

We'd be better off with just the 1st rounder. Justin Houston or Dee Ford would be icing on the cake.

Depends.

Maybe the first round pick would be better than Clark, but we don’t know for sure.

I don’t trust Houston or Ford to stay healthy and they’re both expensive.

[WhawhaWhat]

Depends.

Maybe the first round pick would be better than Clark, but we don’t know for sure.

I don’t trust Houston or Ford to stay healthy and they’re both expensive.

Not to mention that Houston wasn't going to sign to come back to KC anyway.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Honey Badger sucks worse. .

got beat bad a few times today


A stupid post in a stupid thread...

[Mahomes_Is_God]

There's a difference between whining and being critical. You don't seem to have the brain capacity to distinguish between the two. I don't see anyone complaining about how well the D did, so what the **** does them allowing 10 points have to do with anything? Using your logic, then people are being whiny when they say our OL sucks.

The Chiefs gave up a **** ton to get Frank N Beans, so he needs to perform. If we don't sign Jones long term it's because we gave Clark a big contract. I'd rather have Justin Houston than Clark and would take Dee Ford, a 1st round pick, and that $100 mil over Clark.



I don't care what he's facing, he needs to be better. All these guys get doubled, but they still over come. He was on a much worse D line last year, so I'm sure he was double teamed, but he still produced.

And I'm tired of people using the let him adjust to the scheme! Well I was under the impression that Spags D let these guys just go out and play football and not worry about the scheme so much. He's gotta play better.
SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP. BITCH

[pugsnotdrugs19]

As a whole, I think fans are too ate up with sacks. They’re awesome, don’t get me wrong, but they don’t correlate to great team defense nearly as much as many seem to believe.

See Chiefs last year for reference.

[J Diddy]

As a whole, I think fans are too ate up with sacks. They’re awesome, don’t get me wrong, but they don’t correlate to great team defense nearly as much as many seem to believe.

See Chiefs last year for reference.

Absolutely this.

[FlorentinePogen]

How offended some of you get over any type of criticism blows my mind. I can only imagine how big of pussies some of you must be in the real world by your reactions to criticism of a football player.

I think most people just think it's foolish to shit yourself over two games worth of performance from a player on a new team and new system. No need to call people pussies for not playing along with the unnecessary drama.

[J Diddy]

Depends.

Maybe the first round pick would be better than Clark, but we don’t know for sure.

I don’t trust Houston or Ford to stay healthy and they’re both expensive.

Not to mention not leaders, liability in coverage and against the run and incredibly inconsistent.

Them shits can kick bricks. Houston can come back and sign a one day contract to retire as a chief. Ford can suck a fat sausage. We were one dumb fuckers arm away from reaching the promised land.

[rabblerouser]

Not to mention not leaders, liability in coverage and against the run and incredibly inconsistent.

Them shits can kick bricks. Houston can come back and sign a one day contract to retire as a chief. Ford can suck a fat sausage. We were one dumb ****ers arm away from reaching the promised land.
All of this.

[Megatron96]

So I just re-watched the first three quarters of the game, just the Chiefs' defensive snaps. Clark was doubled nearly every single down, which gave other guys on our DL several 1v1 opportunities. I noticed that Chris Jones was doubled most of the time as well. This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.

Based on how Clark played I'm pretty sure that Spags knew that Clark was going to be a primary focus of the Raiders' OL.

In spite of this attention, Clark came off the snap hot throughout the game; I don't think he took any plays off when he was on the field.

He also managed to make a TFL, a tackle for a one yard gain (if he missed it that one probably would've gone for at least a first down), several QB pressures that forced Carr out of the pocket (exactly what we want), a couple tackles on their TEs that might've gone for big gains if Dee Ford had been out there.

Unfortunately, except for the TFL, he didn't have any splash plays. What he did do was play smart team football, drew a lot of attention to himself and helped everyone else on the DL make plays.

Most importantly, I didn't see him make any big mistakes. No lining up offsides, no encroachments, off-sides, losing his assignments, etc.

I really liked how he drove down on some of those running plays and forced the RB back into the middle. He played contain just about as well as anyone can play it.

I know some people are going to be pissed that Clark got a big contract and he didn't snatch Carr's head off every other passing play, but that's not realistic. The Raiders knew coming into the game who Frank Clark was, and they obviously knew exactly where he was on the field every snap. But all that extra attention helped our DL and our secondary at times. Bottom line, our defense has only allowed a couple dozen points in two games, and only allowed one big running play.

And I don't think Clark is in his best game shape yet. He's going to be fine, IMO. He's making our defensive line better, better at tackling, better at containment, and better against the run.

I'm starting to believe that the Ravens will have a hard time getting those big running plays against us next week.

[Prison Bitch]

This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.



Do other coaches not?

[Megatron96]

This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.



Do other coaches not?

Some don't. Some seem to depend on their scheme to handle things, even when there's a star player on the field.

But more often it seems like some coaches/units lose track of the guy(s) they're supposed to be doubling/paying extra attention to. Clark was doubled nearly every down, so I surmise that the Raiders were well aware of his presence whenever he was on the field.

John Fox. I remember in the Super Bowl (I think it was the SB, might've been the NFCCG), he tried to rely on his offensive scheme to handle the pass rushers and it didn't work. The defense got to his QB and RB pretty consistently throughout the game. I remember the game because I told my buddy that Fox would have to make the adjustment coming out for the second half. He didn't. We were both yelling at the TV, "you need to chip that guy!"

[RealSNR]

So for what it's worth, I do need to clarify and walk back a couple things about what I wrote. I was far too many beers into that point of the game, and yes, I realize it was only the end of the 1st quarter. No, it's not an excuse, and yes, I just called it a "walk back." This is definitely a thread I wouldn't normally start, and I wish I hadn't, because I do look like a dumbass. If I had to bitch about a player (which I sometimes do) I'd find the dumbass thread somebody else started and write my opinion in that thread.

What spurned my anger? Well, yeah, at that point in the game the defense WAS playing like trash. I started this thread when I saw Carr with a 100% clean pocket on consecutive plays during the Raiders' only TD drive in the first quarter. The defense had been doing its usual "run defense looks better, but QBs all complete ridiculous percentage of their passes against us" routine from last game.

That being said.....

1. Seattle gouged us on this trade. It fucking sucked when it happened, and it still fucking sucks. I 100% believe Clark is way better than Ford, but I don't think he's a full 1st round pick better than Ford. Whatever, though. It shouldn't matter what I think about what Clark is worth. It matters what Veach and Spags think Clark is worth. If they have to slightly overpay to get the player that matters to them and fits in best, so be it. I didn't have the info and knowledge of the player and the person that Veach had. That's why he's a GM and I'm just a fan.

2. HOWEVER, it does still suck to spend that AND pay him the contract we did and still have to wait for a bit until other players on defense improve and get used to the scheme so that more attention is placed on them and Clark can get more opportunities to make plays. No, I'm not talking about just sacks, either. I simply mean timely tackles at the line of scrimmage. Good block shedding. QB pressures just as much as QB sacks. Tackles for loss.

No, the stories of great defensive players aren't always told with stats, but again... being a Chiefs fan and seeing all the big money contracts we've given to defensive guys only to have them shit their pants with it... well, when you're several beers in and the defense looks like they did in the 1st quarter and Carr has all fucking day to throw and has no problems whatsoever completing his passes to steamy turds like Tyrell Williams and Hunter Renfrow, and the guy you spent money on hasn't produced so much as a single QB hurry or a bead of sweat to run down Carr's forehead, and you're losing 10-0 to the fucking Raiders....

Yeah, we've all been there. I just gave in to the demon of dumbassery, okay?

[PAChiefsGuy]

It's still early. A lot of football left to be played. He is at least drawing double teams like others have said.

[Danguardace]

Only two games in so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, my main concern is the money we are paying him could cost us Chris Jones.

[Nickhead]

I must say, you have become a whingin' lil bitch lately. But this is merely an observation :D

[Aspengc8]

So I just re-watched the first three quarters of the game, just the Chiefs' defensive snaps. Clark was doubled nearly every single down, which gave other guys on our DL several 1v1 opportunities. I noticed that Chris Jones was doubled most of the time as well. This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.

Based on how Clark played I'm pretty sure that Spags knew that Clark was going to be a primary focus of the Raiders' OL.

In spite of this attention, Clark came off the snap hot throughout the game; I don't think he took any plays off when he was on the field.

He also managed to make a TFL, a tackle for a one yard gain (if he missed it that one probably would've gone for at least a first down), several QB pressures that forced Carr out of the pocket (exactly what we want), a couple tackles on their TEs that might've gone for big gains if Dee Ford had been out there.

Unfortunately, except for the TFL, he didn't have any splash plays. What he did do was play smart team football, drew a lot of attention to himself and helped everyone else on the DL make plays.

Most importantly, I didn't see him make any big mistakes. No lining up offsides, no encroachments, off-sides, losing his assignments, etc.

I really liked how he drove down on some of those running plays and forced the RB back into the middle. He played contain just about as well as anyone can play it.

I know some people are going to be pissed that Clark got a big contract and he didn't snatch Carr's head off every other passing play, but that's not realistic. The Raiders knew coming into the game who Frank Clark was, and they obviously knew exactly where he was on the field every snap. But all that extra attention helped our DL and our secondary at times. Bottom line, our defense has only allowed a couple dozen points in two games, and only allowed one big running play.

And I don't think Clark is in his best game shape yet. He's going to be fine, IMO. He's making our defensive line better, better at tackling, better at containment, and better against the run.

I'm starting to believe that the Ravens will have a hard time getting those big running plays against us next week.

This is exactly what happened week 1 as well. Dude is getting chipped or doubled almost every pass play except the 3 step drop stuff. It's letting everyone else get 1v1 wins.

[rabblerouser]

I must say, you have become a whingin' lil bitch lately. But this is merely an observation :D

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3vRfedsjrSrkrIpW/giphy.gif

[tredadda]

We'd be better off with just the 1st rounder. Justin Houston or Dee Ford would be icing on the cake.

Possibly but that’s assuming we hit on our first rounder. Dee Ford is anything but icing. He’s a one dimensional player who’s lack of discipline in regards to what side of the ball to line up on cost us a trip to the SB.

[tredadda]

So for what it's worth, I do need to clarify and walk back a couple things about what I wrote. I was far too many beers into that point of the game, and yes, I realize it was only the end of the 1st quarter. No, it's not an excuse, and yes, I just called it a "walk back." This is definitely a thread I wouldn't normally start, and I wish I hadn't, because I do look like a dumbass. If I had to bitch about a player (which I sometimes do) I'd find the dumbass thread somebody else started and write my opinion in that thread.

What spurned my anger? Well, yeah, at that point in the game the defense WAS playing like trash. I started this thread when I saw Carr with a 100% clean pocket on consecutive plays during the Raiders' only TD drive in the first quarter. The defense had been doing its usual "run defense looks better, but QBs all complete ridiculous percentage of their passes against us" routine from last game.

That being said.....

1. Seattle gouged us on this trade. It fucking sucked when it happened, and it still fucking sucks. I 100% believe Clark is way better than Ford, but I don't think he's a full 1st round pick better than Ford. Whatever, though. It shouldn't matter what I think about what Clark is worth. It matters what Veach and Spags think Clark is worth. If they have to slightly overpay to get the player that matters to them and fits in best, so be it. I didn't have the info and knowledge of the player and the person that Veach had. That's why he's a GM and I'm just a fan.

2. HOWEVER, it does still suck to spend that AND pay him the contract we did and still have to wait for a bit until other players on defense improve and get used to the scheme so that more attention is placed on them and Clark can get more opportunities to make plays. No, I'm not talking about just sacks, either. I simply mean timely tackles at the line of scrimmage. Good block shedding. QB pressures just as much as QB sacks. Tackles for loss.

No, the stories of great defensive players aren't always told with stats, but again... being a Chiefs fan and seeing all the big money contracts we've given to defensive guys only to have them shit their pants with it... well, when you're several beers in and the defense looks like they did in the 1st quarter and Carr has all fucking day to throw and has no problems whatsoever completing his passes to steamy turds like Tyrell Williams and Hunter Renfrow, and the guy you spent money on hasn't produced so much as a single QB hurry or a bead of sweat to run down Carr's forehead, and you're losing 10-0 to the fucking Raiders....

Yeah, we've all been there. I just gave in to the demon of dumbassery, okay?

I think you are overvaluing our 1st rounder last year. Had it been a top 10 pick you would have a solid argument. Where the Chiefs drafted it was essentially a high 2nd rounder. Not bad for a player who up to that point had proven himself in the league.

[RealSNR]

I must say, you have become a whingin' lil bitch lately. But this is merely an observation :D

I must say, you have always been a giant flaming dipshit.

[Chris Meck]

People that think Clark has sucked are the same people who thought Ford was awesome.

You're not really watching if you think that.

[duncan_idaho]

People that think Clark has sucked are the same people who thought Ford was awesome.

You're not really watching if you think that.


Clark plays disciplined football and doesn’t abandon his assignment to chase QB pressure no matter what. I admire what it brings to the table. He’s an all-around end.

[Chris Meck]

Clark plays disciplined football and doesn’t abandon his assignment to chase QB pressure no matter what. I admire what it brings to the table. He’s an all-around end.

And he requires game planning. His presence allows opportunities to other players as the offense shifts protection left to deal with him. It opens up things for Jones and Ogbah/Okafor on the other side, and we're seeing some benefits already.

[Prison Bitch]

Clark plays disciplined football and doesn’t abandon his assignment to chase QB pressure no matter what. I admire what it brings to the table. He’s an all-around end.

Dude come on. 100M for a player who “doesn’t abandon assignments?”


You’ve gotta be kidding.

[Kidd Lex]

People that think Clark has sucked are the same people who thought Ford was awesome.

You're not really watching if you think that.

This. Clark brings so much more to the defense from setting the end to maintaining his gap assignment and getting push into the pocket. He’s a big reason we aren’t giving up huge runs over and over again.

[Kidd Lex]

Dude come on. 100M for a player who “doesn’t abandon assignments?”


You’ve gotta be kidding.

PB you can’t see the immense value Clark brings to this defense over a 1 dimensional Dee Ford?

[Prison Bitch]

PB you can’t see the immense value Clark brings to this defense over a 1 dimensional Dee Ford?

I can’t analyze defensive players very well. I don’t know if he’s better. I know 1 thing tho: $100M + #1 pick buys me Kalil Mack. Or else I don’t do that deal.

[Chris Meck]

Dude come on. 100M for a player who “doesn’t abandon assignments?”


You’ve gotta be kidding.

There's a lot more to playing defensive end than sack stats. He does all of it well, and the sacks will come. Right now, the first two weeks opposing offenses have game-planned to keep him off their QB. Jax kept a chipper in and got the ball out quick. Oakland played a lot of two TE sets.

That's fine, it means Jones and Okafor/Ogbah/Kpass get opportunities.

He's been excellent against the run, snuffed out screens, and is still pushing the pocket. The numbers will come.

Ford, on the other hand, either beat the LT at the snap or did nothing. He was subpar against the run, and had no real instincts as far as the complete game. He's not a physical player, he relied on speed and beat you at the snap or got stonewalled.

If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you except that you clearly don't know as much about football as you think you do.

[tredadda]

I can’t analyze defensive players very well. I don’t know if he’s better. I know 1 thing tho: $100M + #1 pick buys me Kalil Mack. Or else I don’t do that deal.

Except you don’t get Mack for that.

[TambaBerry]

Oaklands offense is getting the ball out quickly Chubb and Miller didnt get him do you guys think they suck? Go back and just watch Clark and nobody else

[O.city]

There's a lot more to playing defensive end than sack stats. He does all of it well, and the sacks will come. Right now, the first two weeks opposing offenses have game-planned to keep him off their QB. Jax kept a chipper in and got the ball out quick. Oakland played a lot of two TE sets.

That's fine, it means Jones and Okafor/Ogbah/Kpass get opportunities.

He's been excellent against the run, snuffed out screens, and is still pushing the pocket. The numbers will come.

Ford, on the other hand, either beat the LT at the snap or did nothing. He was subpar against the run, and had no real instincts as far as the complete game. He's not a physical player, he relied on speed and beat you at the snap or got stonewalled.

If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you except that you clearly don't know as much about football as you think you do.

He's being paid like a top 5 defensive player in the league. This is a capped league and Clark is taking a monster chunk of that.

IF all we need is what you described, you could have had that for like 1/4th of the price.

No, for what he's being paid and what they gave up, you need all that an the numbers. He needs to fucking wreck games, not "push the pocket".

[Chris Meck]

He's being paid like a top 5 defensive player in the league. This is a capped league and Clark is taking a monster chunk of that.

IF all we need is what you described, you could have had that for like 1/4th of the price.

No, for what he's being paid and what they gave up, you need all that an the numbers. He needs to ****ing wreck games, not "push the pocket".

No, you don't get DE talent that opposing offenses have to tailor their approach to work around for 1/4 of that.

by the end of the regular season you'll see. He'll have double-digit sacks, and then all of y'all who use that stat to determine a DE/edge player's worth will chill out. Right now, teams are gameplanning to neutralize him, which is giving Jones and the opposite DE spot opportunities. We're making them pay for it, and soon they'll start playing straight up across the line and you'll see Clark getting home.

[Prison Bitch]

He's being paid like a top 5 defensive player in the league. This is a capped league and Clark is taking a monster chunk of that.

IF all we need is what you described, you could have had that for like 1/4th of the price.

No, for what he's being paid and what they gave up, you need all that an the numbers. He needs to ****ing wreck games, not "push the pocket".

It’s telling that the sunshine pumpers are saying 2 diff things:

1. Just wait till he has a monster 3-sack game so we can bump this!
2. He doesn’t have to have monster games to make a diff.

[O.city]

No, you don't get DE talent that opposing offenses have to tailor their approach to work around for 1/4 of that.

by the end of the regular season you'll see. He'll have double-digit sacks, and then all of y'all who use that stat to determine a DE/edge player's worth will chill out. Right now, teams are gameplanning to neutralize him, which is giving Jones and the opposite DE spot opportunities. We're making them pay for it, and soon they'll start playing straight up across the line and you'll see Clark getting home.

Teams gameplan to take away Khalil Mack. He still dominates. That's what Clark needs to be to make the contract work.

[O.city]

It’s telling that the sunshine pumpers are saying 2 diff things:

1. Just wait till he has a monster 3-sack game so we can bump this!
2. He doesn’t have to have monster games to make a diff.

I mean, I get it. He was billed as this DPOY kinda guy and we want that to be true.

But for fucks sake, it's ok to say "yeah, he's not being the difference maker yet".

[Chris Meck]

Teams gameplan to take away Khalil Mack. He still dominates. That's what Clark needs to be to make the contract work.


Is that right?

So far this season, Khalil Mack has 6 solo/combined tackles and one sack in two games.

Frank Clark has 6 solo/combined tackles, no sacks, and one interception.

So by your own measuring stick, Frank Clark is doing fine.

[oldman]

There's a lot more to playing defensive end than sack stats. He does all of it well, and the sacks will come. Right now, the first two weeks opposing offenses have game-planned to keep him off their QB. Jax kept a chipper in and got the ball out quick. Oakland played a lot of two TE sets.

That's fine, it means Jones and Okafor/Ogbah/Kpass get opportunities.

He's been excellent against the run, snuffed out screens, and is still pushing the pocket. The numbers will come.

Ford, on the other hand, either beat the LT at the snap or did nothing. He was subpar against the run, and had no real instincts as far as the complete game. He's not a physical player, he relied on speed and beat you at the snap or got stonewalled.

If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you except that you clearly don't know as much about football as you think you do.

I'm with you, Chris. He's more of a complete player than Ford. I just think we haven't seen all the things he brings to the table yet. It's not all about sacks, which I think he'll get as the season progresses. This is a new D that will take some time to gel.

[Hoover]

Clark is a huge upgrade over Ford. The Sacks will come. He make this defense much better IMO

[Skyy God]

I mean, I get it. He was billed as this DPOY kinda guy and we want that to be true.

But for ****s sake, it's ok to say "yeah, he's not being the difference maker yet".

PB isn’t factoring in things like Clark’s contribution to improved run D, or 3rd down stops, or his INT.

He’s a sack stat guy.

[WhiteWhale]

Meh. KC's old defensive leaders were not ideal. Berry barely played and Houston took plays off.

Taking plays off is infectious when your leader does it.

Clark is a hustle guy. He plays hard every snap. That's ALSO infectious. I'll give him a whole season before I declare him to '****ing suck', but I see more hustle this year which is really good.

[O.city]

PB isn’t factoring in things like Clark’s contribution to improved run D, or 3rd down stops, or his INT.

He’s a sack stat guy.

I understand all that stuff.

But again, for what he's getting paid, you need it all. You need that stuff plus the sacks for the value on the contract to work out.

[petegz28]

I understand all that stuff.



But again, for what he's getting paid, you need it all. You need that stuff plus the sacks for the value on the contract to work out.2 games in under a new defense...chill a bit. If we continue to allow oy 18 points per game average all season then I dont care if he never get a sack.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[WhiteWhale]

I understand all that stuff.

But again, for what he's getting paid, you need it all. You need that stuff plus the sacks for the value on the contract to work out.

How many sacks does he have to get to meet your quota?

10? 13? 17?

Guys often get sacks in bunches, not on some 1 or 2 per game consistent basis. Except, apparently, Chris Jones. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt after TWO games.

[O.city]

How many sacks does he have to get to meet your quota?

10? 13? 17?

Guys often get sacks in bunches, not on some 1 or 2 per game consistent basis. Except, apparently, Chris Jones. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt after TWO games.

I actually don't have a sack number to be honest, i'm more of a pressures and just disruption kinda guy and the sacks will come.

But yea, he needs to be a 12 sack guy I guess if I put a number on it.

[Chris Meck]

Okay, so none of you 'Clark sucks' guys want to comment on my direct Mack/Clark stat comparison through the two games so far?

[O.city]

I saw Mack come in last year to a new system or whatever and wreck shit.

I'll give him a bit of a break because I've seen him be a badass after moving like that.

I haven't seen Clark do that.

[Toad]

Okay, so none of you 'Clark sucks' guys want to comment on my direct Mack/Clark stat comparison through the two games so far?

I think you’re spot on point.

[Simply Red]

I'll say this - he had a couple nice sticks yesterday - but he also looked gassed out there, some.

[RunKC]

I saw Mack come in last year to a new system or whatever and wreck shit.

I'll give him a bit of a break because I've seen him be a badass after moving like that.

I haven't seen Clark do that.

Mack wrecked a hurting Packers OL and made a backup QB who isn't even in GB anymore look horrible bc he held the ball forever. That’s amazing isn’t it?

Mack got paid all that money and didn’t do anything that game when Rodgers came back.

Rodgers took a giant shit on their expensive diety and led a comeback win on one leg.

Context matters

[Easy 6]

Is that right?

So far this season, Khalil Mack has 6 solo/combined tackles and one sack in two games.

Frank Clark has 6 solo/combined tackles, no sacks, and one interception.

So by your own measuring stick, Frank Clark is doing fine.

That’s how you put things in perspective

Nice post

[WhiteWhale]

I actually don't have a sack number to be honest, i'm more of a pressures and just disruption kinda guy and the sacks will come.

But yea, he needs to be a 12 sack guy I guess if I put a number on it.

Fair enough. For his money I'd expect him to crack double digits and I think he will.

I think he's brought a lot without the sacks so far, but obviously I think it's a big disappointment if he can't crack 10.

[WhiteWhale]

That’s how you put things in perspective

Nice post

Eh... I think stats are misleading.

Mack is a more disruptive player on a down to down basis, and I don't think ANYONE would argue that. Stats are nice, but people should use their eyes.

Hypothetically a pass rusher can disrupt an entire game and not post a sack. Hypothetically a guy can have 2 or 3 sacks and never actually BEAT an offensive linemen to get them.

Clark is just not and never has been a down to down disruptor like Mack. It's not even a fair expectation to put on him.

I'd rather have the generational QB than the generational pass rusher. Already had that. Didn't win a fucking thing.

[Chris Meck]

I saw Mack come in last year to a new system or whatever and wreck shit.

I'll give him a bit of a break because I've seen him be a badass after moving like that.

I haven't seen Clark do that.

except that you haven't really.



in 2018, Mack had 47 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 18 QB hits and one INT.
in 2018, Clark had 41 tackles, 13 sacks, 27 QB hits, and one INT.

This season, their stats are nearly identical other than Clark has an INT and Mack has one sack.

2 games is a tiny sample size, but even within that sample size, any concern over Clark's production when compared to Mack is rendered null and void.

Mack certainly had some big games last season; he also had some in which he barely shows up on the stat line. Same with Clark. That's kind of the way it works in the NFL.

I'm sure both he and Clark will this season as well.. But a head to head comparison with your own player of choice shows there's no reason for concern.

I don't know how else to allay your fears.

[Easy 6]

PB isn’t factoring in things like Clark’s contribution to improved run D, or 3rd down stops, or his INT.

He’s a sack stat guy.

Eh... I think stats are misleading.

Mack is a more disruptive player on a down to down basis, and I don't think ANYONE would argue that.

Numbers count or they wouldn’t keep track of them

Cave also adds some perspective with his post above

[Chris Meck]

Eh... I think stats are misleading.

Mack is a more disruptive player on a down to down basis, and I don't think ANYONE would argue that. Stats are nice, but people should use their eyes.

Hypothetically a pass rusher can disrupt an entire game and not post a sack. Hypothetically a guy can have 2 or 3 sacks and never actually BEAT an offensive linemen to get them.

Clark is just not and never has been a down to down disruptor like Mack. It's not even a fair expectation to put on him.

I'd rather have the generational QB than the generational pass rusher. Already had that. Didn't win a ****ing thing.

Well, to be honest, Mack is probably the best edge player in football. He's more disruptive than anyone.

I would argue that Clark is just a tick below. And that this first 2 games is a tiny sample size, and that even within that tiny sample size, his play has been fine and compare favorably with Mack. The sacks will come.

Statistically, his 2018 was very comparable to Mack, the best edge player in football. Half a sack more and 1/3 more QB hits.

As for disruptive, he's been very disruptive. He's been very good against the run, has blown up some screens, and has required extra attention/game planning from opposing offenses to keep him contained. Pretty soon, teams will have to abandon that and we'll see the sacks come in bunches.

I say anyone claiming he sucks is just flat wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about.

[WhiteWhale]

Numbers count or they wouldn’t keep track of them

Cave also adds some perspective with his post above

Burn that strawman down.

"Stats don't tell the whole story" is obviously a different statement than "Stats are worthless", but go on.

[WhiteWhale]

Well, to be honest, Mack is probably the best edge player in football. He's more disruptive than anyone.

I would argue that Clark is just a tick below. And that this first 2 games is a tiny sample size, and that even within that tiny sample size, his play has been fine and compare favorably with Mack. The sacks will come.

Statistically, his 2018 was very comparable to Mack, the best edge player in football. Half a sack more and nearly 1/3 more QB hits.

As for disruptive, he's been very disruptive. He's been very good against the run, has blown up some screens, and has required extra attention/game planning from opposing offenses to keep him contained. Pretty soon, teams will have to abandon that and we'll see the sacks come in bunches.

I say anyone claiming he sucks is just flat wrong and doesn't know what they're talking about.

We agree on the core of the argument. My only point is a 2 game comparative sample is not really viable.

There are probably quite a few guys with better stats after two games than Mack, but that doesn't mean they're better players or have been as disruptive.

Which is exactly the reason I'm not in a panic because Clark isn't stuffing the stat sheet. He's a really good player, and he'll have his games.

[Marcellus]

Chiefs sacked Carr 3 times and only gave up 198 yards passing. I don't care about individual stats as much as i care about giving up only 10 points and winning by 18.

I mean we shut them out for 3 quarters in a game they were trailing by 3 scores in by the second half. :shrug:

[tmax63]

Numbers only count when they work for "your" guy. So far, after 2 games, the chiefs are looking like a middle of the pack defense which is far above last year. I'd also say that it's sooner than expected regardless who they have played. Keep giving them time to develop chemistry and communication and learning to play together. I'm cautiously optimistic at this stage.

[ChiefBlueCFC]

Frank Clark sucks? Because he didn't get a sack in either game yet? Ok

[WhiteWhale]

Frank Clark sucks? Because I didn't get a sack in either game yet? Ok

That SEEMS to be the argument. That only shitty pass rushers go 2 games without a sack.

Or something. I'm not really sure.

[duncan_idaho]

Dude come on. 100M for a player who “doesn’t abandon assignments?”





You’ve gotta be kidding.


Did I say that was all he does?

Others are already making the points I would make and making them better than I would.

If Clark continues to demand double-teams while playing well against the run and holding the point of attack, he’s doing his job and doing it well; he doesn’t need to rack up sack totals like Dee Ford did to be a better player, especially in this scheme.

He’s an intelligent football player, too. If you watch him closely, you see a handful of plays where he realizes it’s a three-step drop and the ball is about to come out, so he stops his rush and tries to get hands up.

He’s just an all-around good player, and that’s what they need as the centerpiece of this D.

If they pair him with another really dangerous pass rush threat at the other DE spot or Chris Jones gets on a roll and starts commanding double-teams and chips, he’ll find easier opportunities in pass rush situations.

I suspect the Chiefs DL under the Daly/Spagnuolo combo will continue to look like this, though. All-around players who are intelligent and do their job every down, without freelancing.

[O.city]

except that you haven't really.



in 2018, Mack had 47 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 18 QB hits and one INT.
in 2018, Clark had 41 tackles, 13 sacks, 27 QB hits, and one INT.

This season, their stats are nearly identical other than Clark has an INT and Mack has one sack.

2 games is a tiny sample size, but even within that sample size, any concern over Clark's production when compared to Mack is rendered null and void.

Mack certainly had some big games last season; he also had some in which he barely shows up on the stat line. Same with Clark. That's kind of the way it works in the NFL.

I'm sure both he and Clark will this season as well.. But a head to head comparison with your own player of choice shows there's no reason for concern.

I don't know how else to allay your fears.

First let me say though, I don't think Clark sucks at all. He's a really good complete player.

My argument is more about what they gave up and are paying him, we need him to be more of a force and make plays.

[RealSNR]

People that think Clark has sucked are the same people who thought Ford was awesome.

You're not really watching if you think that.

I NEVER thought Ford was awesome.

[Chris Meck]

That SEEMS to be the argument. That only shitty pass rushers go 2 games without a sack.

Or something. I'm not really sure.

right.

so I suppose my critique of the argument is that the people saying Clark sucks watch Chiefs games and not much else, just stat totals.

So they're all-Clark sucks! He's no Khalil Mack!

And I'm all-well, statistically, he compares favorably with Mack in last year's statistics and so far in the two games this year.

And they're all-


And that appears to be the conversation.

I'm completely unconcerned with Frank Clark. I have concerns with the LB corps, and have some questions at CB, but I have no concerns in the front four at all, really.

[RealSNR]

Also, not to make this thread "all about me" but it's disingenuous to think I and others have questioned if Clark was worth it "because no sacks."

I never once brought up sacks. I said QB pressures and big plays in the OP.

I also posted this before the end of the 1st quarter.

But even you all have to admit... the Jacksonville game up to the end of the 1st quarter, the defense was playing like shit, and Clark wasn't really demonstrating much to change that trend.

[O.city]

right.

so I suppose my critique of the argument is that the people saying Clark sucks watch Chiefs games and not much else, just stat totals.

So they're all-Clark sucks! He's no Khalil Mack!

And I'm all-well, statistically, he compares favorably with Mack in last year's statistics and so far in the two games this year.

And they're all-


And that appears to be the conversation.

I'm completely unconcerned with Frank Clark. I have concerns with the LB corps, and have some questions at CB, but I have no concerns in the front four at all, really.

Mack only played 13 games last year IIRC so he probably has some deflation of stats there.

He also came into a new system and immediately wrecked GB game one. He gets doubled and such all the time, yet still seems to make big game changing plays.

We haven't seen that from Clark yet.

It's great that he's good against the run, hustling and whatever. That's all awesome, but again, that's expected.

With his contract, he's expected to be as Veach said, a "DPOY" candidate. Thru 2 games, he's not been that.

[J Diddy]

right.

so I suppose my critique of the argument is that the people saying Clark sucks watch Chiefs games and not much else, just stat totals.

So they're all-Clark sucks! He's no Khalil Mack!

And I'm all-well, statistically, he compares favorably with Mack in last year's statistics and so far in the two games this year.

And they're all-


And that appears to be the conversation.

I'm completely unconcerned with Frank Clark. I have concerns with the LB corps, and have some questions at CB, but I have no concerns in the front four at all, really.

I thought the lb played okay if not well.

[WhiteWhale]

right.

so I suppose my critique of the argument is that the people saying Clark sucks watch Chiefs games and not much else, just stat totals.

So they're all-Clark sucks! He's no Khalil Mack!

And I'm all-well, statistically, he compares favorably with Mack in last year's statistics and so far in the two games this year.

And they're all-


And that appears to be the conversation.

I'm completely unconcerned with Frank Clark. I have concerns with the LB corps, and have some questions at CB, but I have no concerns in the front four at all, really.

It's not just that. It's such a cliche complaint about pass rushers in general.

Back in the day even Lawrence ****ing Taylor was accused of 'disappearing' for stretches because he wasn't putting up numbers for a few games. KC fans ALWAYS made this complain about DT.

It's not a BFD. Larger sample is needed. I think Clark will be fine. We're talking about TWO GAMES.

[O.city]

I also don't really put much into the Interception. It was a three timed tipped ball that he was in the right place for.

As a 43 DE, go get the QB. If you get doubled or chipped, ok. Great. They aren't doing that every play and when he's not getting that, he's not really getting much pressure.

[Chris Meck]

Mack only played 13 games last year IIRC so he probably has some deflation of stats there.

He also came into a new system and immediately wrecked GB game one. He gets doubled and such all the time, yet still seems to make big game changing plays.

We haven't seen that from Clark yet.

It's great that he's good against the run, hustling and whatever. That's all awesome, but again, that's expected.

With his contract, he's expected to be as Veach said, a "DPOY" candidate. Thru 2 games, he's not been that.

okay, well, that's true regarding Mack playing in 14 games (started 13). But 1/3 more QB hits?

And no, we haven't seen it yet, but it's a small sample size and within that sample size, his stats compare very favorably to Mack.

So what I'm saying is-any panic is REALLY premature and reactionary.

[O.city]

It's not just that. It's such a cliche complaint about pass rushers in general.

Back in the day even Lawrence ****ing Taylor was accused for 'disappearing' for stretches because he wasn't putting up numbers for a few games.

It's not a BFD. Larger sample is needed. I think Clark will be fine.

Sacks always come in bunches. We always had this argument with Houston and company.

I think my argument is getting kinda misconstrued here. I don't have any worries that he'll be fine.

My thing is that the Chiefs D needs him to be more than fine. What he's done so far just isn't good enough for what they gave up and are paying.

I think Frank agrees as he's said so, so I'm not really worried that it won't come hopefully.

[WhiteWhale]

Mack only played 13 games last year IIRC so he probably has some deflation of stats there.

He also came into a new system and immediately wrecked GB game one. He gets doubled and such all the time, yet still seems to make big game changing plays.

We haven't seen that from Clark yet.

It's great that he's good against the run, hustling and whatever. That's all awesome, but again, that's expected.

With his contract, he's expected to be as Veach said, a "DPOY" candidate. Thru 2 games, he's not been that.

Clark isn't Mack, so don't start expecting him to play like he is. There's an ENORMOUS gap between 'as good as Kalil Mack" and 'Sucks"

[threebag]

He's being paid like a top 5 defensive player in the league. This is a capped league and Clark is taking a monster chunk of that.

IF all we need is what you described, you could have had that for like 1/4th of the price.

No, for what he's being paid and what they gave up, you need all that an the numbers. He needs to fucking wreck games, not "push the pocket".

Eric Hicks Fan

[O.city]

Clark isn't Mack, so don't start expecting him to play like he is. There's an ENORMOUS gap between 'as good as Kalil Mack" and 'Sucks"

I think those of us expecting more are basing that on what Veach told us though.

They viewed him as the 2nd best defensive player in the league and a defensive player of the year guy.

I don't have a problem with people asking more of him based on that.

But yea, he definitely doesnt' suck that's hyperbole.

[WhiteWhale]

Sacks always come in bunches. We always had this argument with Houston and company.

I think my argument is getting kinda misconstrued here. I don't have any worries that he'll be fine.

My thing is that the Chiefs D needs him to be more than fine. What he's done so far just isn't good enough for what they gave up and are paying.

I think Frank agrees as he's said so, so I'm not really worried that it won't come hopefully.

I think the core of your argument is that you expect him to be more disruptive (stats aside) on a down to down basis than he has been. Is that fair?

[O.city]

I think the core of your argument is that you expect him to be more disruptive (stats aside) on a down to down basis than he has been. Is that fair?

Yep.

[Tribal Warfare]

This is essentially pre-season for the starting DL, they haven't truly have their legs under them. The Ravens game and on we'll see an improvement.

[O.city]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Jones vs Raiders in Week 2:<br><br>1 sack<br>6 pressures<br>1 PBU<br>1 run stop for no gain<br><br>That&#39;s a dominant afternoon against an offense that wanted to get the ball out in 2.1 seconds on average.</p>&mdash; Craig Stout (@barleyhop) <a href="https://twitter.com/barleyhop/status/1173622843474677760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is a dominant game. I'm gonna guess he gets doubled and such too.

[Tribal Warfare]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Jones vs Raiders in Week 2:<br><br>1 sack<br>6 pressures<br>1 PBU<br>1 run stop for no gain<br><br>That&#39;s a dominant afternoon against an offense that wanted to get the ball out in 2.1 seconds on average.</p>&mdash; Craig Stout (@barleyhop) <a href="https://twitter.com/barleyhop/status/1173622843474677760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This is a dominant game. I'm gonna guess he gets doubled and such too.

Chris Jones played more in the pre-season too

[Shields68]

Chiefs sacked Carr 3 times and only gave up 198 yards passing. I don't care about individual stats as much as i care about giving up only 10 points and winning by 18.

I mean we shut them out for 3 quarters in a game they were trailing by 3 scores in by the second half. :shrug:

This and also to me we played 2 run first offenses. The Defense held up rather well to the smash mouth football. Clark looks like a good reason why they looked better against the run. Last years dee does not hold this Raiders team to 10 points.

[duncan_idaho]

This and also to me we played 2 run first offenses. The Defense held up rather well to the smash mouth football. Clark looks like a good reason why they looked better against the run. Last years dee does not hold this Raiders team to 10 points.


Last year’s Dee Ford could have been WAM-blocked out of running plays by Hunter Renfrow. (So could this year’s)

[RunKC]

Almost every single pass rush in this clip has Clark either getting chipped by a RB/receiver or doubled with a guard.

The few times at the end when he wasn’t was a designed quick pass (our 2 INT’s) and the one he almost got a sack on at 7:10...but was again a quick release.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_x_Jjb8wmyQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Blick]

It blows my mind that people want to see individual stats above good team defense.

If Frank Clark helps this team win a championship, he's worth every penny.

[Easy 6]

Burn that strawman down.

"Stats don't tell the whole story" is obviously a different statement than "Stats are worthless", but go on.

It’s no strawman, you can’t just dismiss the numbers like that... through 2 games Clark has been his equal according to the ways we use to determine a players effectiveness

He can at times be Mack’s equal, no question about it... his career stats are what they are

[ChiefBlueCFC]

It blows my mind that people want to see individual stats above good team defense.

If Frank Clark helps this team win a championship, he's worth every penny.

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif

[keg in kc]

Almost every single pass rush in this clip has Clark either getting chipped by a RB/receiver or doubled with a guard.

The few times at the end when he wasn’t was a designed quick pass (our 2 INT’s) and the one he almost got a sack on at 7:10...but was again a quick release.And when the opponent is getting the ball out as quickly as they've tried to against us the first two weeks, the only way you're going to get pressure is up the middle. Which is why Jones has gotten to the QB and Clark hasn't. And that's, not coincidentally, why I think it's so important to get Jones under contract long term.

On the slower developing plays, so far, it appears that, if Clark isn't getting a straight double-team, he's at least getting chipped. He's definitely been a focus of the game plan.

[Buckweath]

I don't think Frank Clark has been bad the first two games but it's true that he hasn't made too many splash plays.

Chris Jones did against the Raiders and was dominant.

But really, even most great players go through phases where for stretches they play amazing, other stretches they play good to great and a few games they play just OK.

Clark doesn't have any sack but then Von Miller doesn't have any either.

I am sure Frank Clark is going to have great games and many splash plays soon.

[T-post Tom]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/79f427954c609c3a7f8f7be001e75d7f/tenor.gif?itemid=7898282

[Chris Meck]

I don't think Frank Clark has been bad the first two games but it's true that he hasn't made too many splash plays.

Chris Jones did against the Raiders and was dominant.

But really, even most great players go through phases where for stretches they play amazing, other stretches they play good to great and a few games they play just OK.

Clark doesn't have any sack but then Von Miller doesn't have any either.

I am sure Frank Clark is going to have great games and many splash plays soon.

Listen, I would argue that Jones made a couple of splash plays but Clark played a better game.

The long Jacobs run went right through Jones' hole. Several times, he was not controlling his gap.

Don't get it twisted, I'm not saying Jones isn't a great player. He does sometimes go for the big play and whiff, though.

Clark is more consistent on a play by play basis.

Glad to have them both.

[Blick]

Listen, I would argue that Jones made a couple of splash plays but Clark played a better game.

The long Jacobs run went right through Jones' hole. Several times, he was not controlling his gap.

Don't get it twisted, I'm not saying Jones isn't a great player. He does sometimes go for the big play and whiff, though.

Clark is more consistent on a play by play basis.

Glad to have them both.

Yeah I'd have to watch the game again to confirm, but there was a running play to the right side and I'm pretty sure it's Jones on roller skates. Just completely washed out.

Jones is a fucking enigma. He's dominant at times but he takes plays off and I have questions about him being a team player. I might be the only one here who's hesitant to give him a big contract. I understand his value as an interior pass rusher, but I also understand his flaws. I can't remember ever being more torn on a player.

[Halfcan]

Honey Badger had an awful game. He was solely responsible for the Faders only TD.

I hope he gets his shit together- he looks like Hobo 2.0 out there.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Questioning Jones as a team player?? Dude could’ve sat out and enabled to be paid but what happened? He reported to training camp. No complaints nothing. So take this idk if Jones is a team player and turn it sideways and shove it straight up your candy ass!

[Megatron96]

Yeah I'd have to watch the game again to confirm, but there was a running play to the right side and I'm pretty sure it's Jones on roller skates. Just completely washed out.

Jones is a ****ing enigma. He's dominant at times but he takes plays off and I have questions about him being a team player. I might be the only one here who's hesitant to give him a big contract. I understand his value as an interior pass rusher, but I also understand his flaws. I can't remember ever being more torn on a player.

He's just young. He hasn't built up the experience yet to be that consistent all-around pass-rusher/run defender that he probably will become in two or three years.

Heck, Clark's presence on the team just might be exactly what Jones needs to learn how to be a great professional football player.

[Blick]

He's just young. He hasn't built up the experience yet to be that consistent all-around pass-rusher/run defender that he probably will become in two or three years.

Heck, Clark's presence on the team just might be exactly what Jones needs to learn how to be a great professional football player.

I hope so.

[-King-]

Mack wrecked a hurting Packers OL and made a backup QB who isn't even in GB anymore look horrible bc he held the ball forever. That’s amazing isn’t it?

Mack got paid all that money and didn’t do anything that game when Rodgers came back.

Rodgers took a giant shit on their expensive diety and led a comeback win on one leg.

Context matters
Uh...so exactly like when the Jags were on their 3rd string LT and backup QB?

[-King-]

I think people for some reason think saying he hasn't lived up to expectations yet = he totally sucks which it doesn't. Clark doesn't suck at all. But for his expectations and his pay level, saying things like he's drawing penalties or he drawing double teams doesn't really do it for me. Very high expectations is the price you pay for signing 100mil contracts.

[-King-]

It blows my mind that people want to see individual stats above good team defense.



Jesus Christ that's not what people are saying.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Honey Badger had an awful game. He was solely responsible for the Faders only TD.

I hope he gets his shit together- he looks like Hobo 2.0 out there.

He's exactly like Troy Polamalu. Except tinier, with skinny little legs and zero play-making ability.

[eDave]

Overreaction Planet

[Chris Meck]

I think people for some reason think saying he hasn't lived up to expectations yet = he totally sucks which it doesn't. Clark doesn't suck at all. But for his expectations and his pay level, saying things like he's drawing penalties or he drawing double teams doesn't really do it for me. Very high expectations is the price you pay for signing 100mil contracts.

and all I'm saying is a two game stretch is nothing to judge on.

for comparison, I posted Mack's stats over the very same two games-and Clark is about the same.

[Blick]

Jesus Christ that's not what people are saying.

Really?

Team defense is better.

People are complaining about Clark's individual impact.

What are people saying then?

[Chris Meck]

Overreaction Planet

why did I waste so many words trying to explain? This is really all there was to say.

[Mecca]

This is a narrative that isn't going to go away, 610 is playing into it. They had Bill Maas on today and he basically went the route of "anyone defending him by saying he's being doubled and chipped that's just dumb, if you pay a guy this kind of money I don't care what the offense does he has to make plays or it's a bad deal"

Which then lead to 10 minutes of the hosts talking about how Clark sucks.

[-King-]

Really?

Team defense is better.

People are complaining about Clark's individual impact.

What are people saying then?

That they expected Clark to make more of an individual aspect given his 100M contract. It's that simple. You can discuss individual players without it being and indictment on the team overall.

Just like I can say Erving was a terrible run blocker yesterday without it meaning our offense overall was terrible.

People are just being overly defensive over any Frank Clark criticism.

[-King-]

and all I'm saying is a two game stretch is nothing to judge on.

for comparison, I posted Mack's stats over the very same two games-and Clark is about the same.

Like I said, no one is saying that Clark sucks other than SNR and he walked that back. But you can talk about his performance in these two games.

I don't see anyone saying "It's only been 2 games, we can't discuss Mahomes performance yet". Not surprisingly you're only saying that about a player who hasn't been that good so far.

[Chris Meck]

Like I said, no one is saying that Clark sucks other than SNR and he walked that back. But you can talk about his performance in these two games.

I don't see anyone saying "It's only been 2 games, we can't discuss Mahomes performance yet". Not surprisingly you're only saying that about a player who hasn't been that good so far.

I judge Clark on his body of work. Not just the last two games. Last year, he was one of the best edge players in football, with stats comparable to Mack. He's still that guy. He just doesn't have a sack yet. if you watch him, play after play, you see what a good football player he is. He's absolutely one of the best players on that defense in both games. He just doesn't have the sack stats that make casual fans cream in their jeans.

I'm sure that will come as well.

IF you're judging him poorly on these two games, then you're a SACK STAT guy, in which you're looking at an edge player and saying, " well, if he was 15 sacks for the season, that means he ought to pretty much have one every game". That rarely happens. Sacks tend to come in bunches.

By the end of the season, everybody will be in agreement that Clark is a damned fine player and we're glad to have him.

[DTVietnam]

well hes doubling Dee Fords production..he has 2 tackles ..Dee Ford has 1..

big improvement in the run defense...doubling Fords production!!@!!!!!

[TambaBerry]

i dont give a fuck if frank clark ever gets a sack he has already made a difference just by his attitude and his ability to set the edge. its not money what do i care what he is paid

[RealSNR]

I judge Clark on his body of work. Not just the last two games. Last year, he was one of the best edge players in football, with stats comparable to Mack. He's still that guy. He just doesn't have a sack yet. if you watch him, play after play, you see what a good football player he is. He's absolutely one of the best players on that defense in both games. He just doesn't have the sack stats that make casual fans cream in their jeans.

I'm sure that will come as well.

IF you're judging him poorly on these two games, then you're a SACK STAT guy, in which you're looking at an edge player and saying, " well, if he was 15 sacks for the season, that means he ought to pretty much have one every game". That rarely happens. Sacks tend to come in bunches.

By the end of the season, everybody will be in agreement that Clark is a damned fine player and we're glad to have him.

Sacks AND QB hurries AND TFLs

He has one TFL. Against the Raiders. No sacks, no hurries. Against a Jags team with a backup OT.

Frank Clark the player doesn't suck, but... oh, I don't know. I kinda expected him to make more than a couple "underrated" big plays especially against Jacksonville. Like, where he directly disrupts the play. That's kinda what I thought we were getting when Seattle gouged the fuck out of us and we paid him $100 million. Especially when he was going up against dudes who weren't exactly Willie Roaf.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Sacks AND QB hurries AND TFLs

He has one TFL. Against the Raiders. No sacks, no hurries. Against a Jags team with a backup OT.

Frank Clark the player doesn't suck, but... oh, I don't know. I kinda expected him to make more than a couple "underrated" big plays especially against Jacksonville. Like, where he directly disrupts the play. That's kinda what I thought we were getting when Seattle gouged the **** out of us and we paid him $100 million. Especially when he was going up against dudes who weren't exactly Willie Roaf.

:lame:

[srvy]

Questioning Jones as a team player?? Dude could’ve sat out and enabled to be paid but what happened? He reported to training camp. No complaints nothing. So take this idk if Jones is a team player and turn it sideways and shove it straight up your candy ass!

You missed his point he meant he freelances sometimes to the detriment of team defense. It leads to big plays on his part and also the opposite.

[tmax63]

You can expect a sack, 3 TFL and 5 QB hurries every game but it isn't realistic. He's drawing the opposing teams attention and that's letting CJ or another DL have a dominant game. Now that CJ had a big game the other team will pay more attention to him and Clark will have a good game coming, or one of the other DL's. The quality is there on the d-line. Kinda like the offense. Watkins had a monster day at Jax so the Raiders took him away and DRob had a monster game. Baltimore has to decide now do they stress their coverage against, Watkins or DRob or Kelce. It will be the same against the D-line. Do you stress protection against FC or CJ. Forget about Nnadi and Okafor and they might just blow up big. It's about recognizing who the other team has decided to "take away" and making adjustments to take advantage of that. And I was happy to see the adjustments come in the 1st quarter against the Raiders instead of at halftime or never.

[-King-]

I judge Clark on his body of work. Not just the last two games. Last year, he was one of the best edge players in football, with stats comparable to Mack. He's still that guy. He just doesn't have a sack yet. if you watch him, play after play, you see what a good football player he is. He's absolutely one of the best players on that defense in both games. He just doesn't have the sack stats that make casual fans cream in their jeans.

I'm sure that will come as well.

IF you're judging him poorly on these two games, then you're a SACK STAT guy, in which you're looking at an edge player and saying, " well, if he was 15 sacks for the season, that means he ought to pretty much have one every game". That rarely happens. Sacks tend to come in bunches.

By the end of the season, everybody will be in agreement that Clark is a damned fine player and we're glad to have him.

So basically you can't grade a game? This is the stupidest shit ever. And I'm sure you only say this about a player who's underwhelming. If he was playing well, your have no problem with people talking about him playing great do far this season.

[Aspengc8]

Sacks AND QB hurries AND TFLs

He has one TFL. Against the Raiders. No sacks, no hurries. Against a Jags team with a backup OT.

Frank Clark the player doesn't suck, but... oh, I don't know. I kinda expected him to make more than a couple "underrated" big plays especially against Jacksonville. Like, where he directly disrupts the play. That's kinda what I thought we were getting when Seattle gouged the **** out of us and we paid him $100 million. Especially when he was going up against dudes who weren't exactly Willie Roaf.

re-watch both games and focus only on Clark. The amount of double teams and chips he draws is opening up rush lanes for everyone else. When teams decide to focus Jones instead, he will 'show up' more for the casual audience. Jags and Raiders also ran an obscene amount of 3 step game which is intended to take away the pass rush. Most 3rd and long situations, or deep pass plays, had 7 guys in protection. All-22 shows this, which is why a lot of film guys are not screaming 'Clark sucks'. There's just too many variables going on to say he flat out is terrible.

[notorious]

As long as he blows up in the playoffs I don't give a shit.

Play great when the lights are brightest. Fuck the mundane shitty regular season games.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

So basically you can't grade a game? This is the stupidest shit ever. And I'm sure you only say this about a player who's underwhelming. If he was playing well, your have no problem with people talking about him playing great do far this season.


Then actually grade the game... Just don't look at the box score and say he sucked. Those of us who actually watch football, and even re-watch the game and focus on players, realize he has been a valuable addition to the team. If Ford was still here they would have raped our C/D gap to that side.

[Chris Meck]

So basically you can't grade a game? This is the stupidest shit ever. And I'm sure you only say this about a player who's underwhelming. If he was playing well, your have no problem with people talking about him playing great do far this season.

You think Clark hasn't played a good game?

Is there a functional difference between, say, sniffing out a screen, hustling over, and dumping the RB for a loss and a sack?

There's not. Same result.

He's done that a few times already.

Your logic is circular.

You've said-you want to see Khalil Mack type numbers.

Well, I showed you how his numbers stack up pretty well against Mack last season. I also showed you how his numbers stack up against Mack THIS year, in these two games. Pretty much identical, with one sack vs. one INT being the only difference.

So stop trying to move the goalposts.

You and the other 'Frank Clark sucks' or 'Frank Clark isn't playing well' people are all seriously overreacting.

[-King-]

You think Clark hasn't played a good game?

Is there a functional difference between, say, sniffing out a screen, hustling over, and dumping the RB for a loss and a sack?

There's not. Same result.

He's done that a few times already.

Your logic is circular.

You've said-you want to see Khalil Mack type numbers.

Well, I showed you how his numbers stack up pretty well against Mack last season. I also showed you how his numbers stack up against Mack THIS year, in these two games. Pretty much identical, with one sack vs. one INT being the only difference.

So stop trying to move the goalposts.

You and the other 'Frank Clark sucks' or 'Frank Clark isn't playing well' people are all seriously overreacting.

He has one tackle for loss. So how has he dumped the RB for a loss "a few times already"?

[Chris Meck]

He has one tackle for loss. So how has he dumped the RB for a loss "a few times already"?

Dude.

Just stop.

He's ruined a few screens to his side. If one was a tackle for a loss, and another was a tackle for no gain, or a batted/tipped ball, whatever.

You're a child.

Watch the games. Where does the opposition have success? Running right. Where was Jacob's big run? Right through Jones' hole. Teams are literally running away from Clark and doubling and chipping him every play. He's owning the left side of line of scrimmage. Just stop it already.

[-King-]

Dude.

Just stop.

He's ruined a few screens to his side. If one was a tackle for a loss, and another was a tackle for no gain, or a batted/tipped ball, whatever.

You're a child.

So what you're saying is that he HASNT had a few of those already?

[Chris Meck]

So what you're saying is that he HASNT had a few of those already?


why don't you go away and let the adults talk?

[Chris Meck]

You want Khalil Mack numbers, you literally have Khalil Mack numbers. Quit moving the goalposts.

I've shown you you're wrong. Now you're just being an ass.

[-King-]

why don't you go away and let the adults talk?

You're the one who said he's stopped RBs a few times for a loss. When he hasn't.

[mlyonsd]

2-0. Both road games. Two games into the season and the Frank Clark era in KC is settled?

[Chris Meck]

You're the one who said he's stopped RBs a few times for a loss. When he hasn't.

I know you are, but what am I?

[WhiteWhale]

By the end of the season there are going to be a lot of you guys eating crow.

[Sassy Squatch]

This guy is expected to be the 2nd best EDGE in the NFL according to what reporters said we thought of him and what we gave up for him in both draft capital and money. So far he's been above average. Not gonna cut it.

[WhiteWhale]

2-0. Both road games. Two games into the season and the Frank Clark era in KC is settled?

Well, he is the first pass rusher in NFL history to go 2 games without a sack.

Derrick Thomas had like 3 in every game.

Right?

[-King-]

You want Khalil Mack numbers, you literally have Khalil Mack numbers. Quit moving the goalposts.

I've shown you you're wrong. Now you're just being an ass.

I mean Khalil Mack has 6 tackles, 2 TFL, 1 sack and 1 forced fumble...

[Mecca]

No stat here but he killed 3 guys...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs are still working on their timing/execution of stunts, but Clark crashing inside is definitely something that causes problems. <a href="https://t.co/fVW2nZdiWz">pic.twitter.com/fVW2nZdiWz</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1174294464321523712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 18, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[-King-]

By the end of the season there are going to be a lot of you guys eating crow.

No one is saying he's a bad player, but he hasn't made the type of impact multiple traded picks and 100M contract should demand. I expect that he has a impact game one of these days but so far he has been underwhelming. 2 games is all we have to judge off of so far so what's wrong with doing that?

[Rausch]

No one is saying he's a bad player, but he hasn't made the type of impact multiple traded picks and 100M contract should demand. I expect that he has a impact game one of these days but so far he has been underwhelming.

So has everyone on under a brand new scheme, with a brand new DC, and 6 new starters...

[-King-]

So has everyone on under a brand new scheme, with a brand new DC, and 6 new starters...

They're not making 100M or cost both a first round and 2nd round pick.

[WhiteWhale]

No one is saying he's a bad player, but he hasn't made the type of impact multiple traded picks and 100M contract should demand. I expect that he has a impact game one of these days but so far he has been underwhelming. 2 games is all we have to judge off of so far so what's wrong with doing that?

*reads thread title*

No one? It's the premise of the thread.

'Frank Clark fucking Sucks' isn't that ambiguous.

[-King-]

*reads thread title*

No one? It's the premise of the thread.

'Frank Clark fucking Sucks' isn't that ambiguous.

Read the rest of the read. He admitted he had been drinking when he wrote that and walked it back.

[Chiefs=Champions]

I went and watched every snap of the 1st half concentrating on Clark. He was very good. Good tfl on a screen, another run stop in the backfield but Jacobs fell forward of the line. He was chipped, doubled and even chipped and doubled on one play. Oakland spent most of the 1st half getting the ball out very fast - im not sure what more you could ask of him? He looked pretty good to me...

[Chiefs=Champions]

Oakland also seemed to run away from his side most of the 1st half. Im pretty comfortable in saying he'll get his "stats" soon.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Who the fuck cares? We want a better overall team performance on defense. As long as that happens, it's worth every penny

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Fantasy football imbeciles the industry has created

[chiefforlife]

No stat here but he killed 3 guys...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs are still working on their timing/execution of stunts, but Clark crashing inside is definitely something that causes problems. <a href="https://t.co/fVW2nZdiWz">pic.twitter.com/fVW2nZdiWz</a></p>&mdash; Seth Keysor (@RealMNchiefsfan) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealMNchiefsfan/status/1174294464321523712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 18, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

No way you can see that and say Frank Clark sucks. Come on Man!

[RealSNR]

:lame:

I'm saying it's disappointing. Not that he sucks.

[RealSNR]

Let's say his production is about the same up until halfway through the season. 4 TFLs in 8 games, 0 sacks, 0 hurries. But a whole lot of the kind of plays where people say, "Well, if you just watched the games, you'd see he's facing chips and double teams constantly and making these heads up plays here and screens and stretches blah blah blah"

Is that good enough? For what we paid for him?

If Jacksonville and their dipshit offensive coordinator and backup tackles can stop him from making shit explode in the backfield by throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him and other teams decide to do the exact same thing, will you be satisfied with that?

If he finished the year with 0 sacks, is that good enough?

Yes, that's a difference making player, but guess what? I said the exact same shit about Justin Houston, because for a time even after he got paid, he was that kind of player. I even made those exact same arguments, saying, "you're not even watching the game" to people who bitched about the contract we gave him and how he didn't show up on the stat sheet.

Hell, many of these same people who are crowing, "HUHR IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SACKS I KNO FOOTBALL!!!" were bitching about Justin Houston's production when, guess what... he actually WAS productive. No, not all, but some are.

I can already see people furiously typing away and calling this post a stupid hypothetical, but I actually mean it. Is that good enough? And if it isn't good enough, is it good enough for two games? No, not as a team. As an individual player.

You can say Frank Clark is a good player and still say, "He hasn't done what we needed him to do in these past couple games". Maybe he'll destroy the Ravens on Sunday. Great. Then whatever. I just think some people aren't actually watching the games like they claim they are and instead opting to parrot homer talking points that they heard other people bring up in this thread and other places.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

If we give up sub 20 PPG, I doubt anyone should give a shit

[mdstu]

No one is saying he's a bad player, but he hasn't made the type of impact multiple traded picks and 100M contract should demand. I expect that he has a impact game one of these days but so far he has been underwhelming. 2 games is all we have to judge off of so far so what's wrong with doing that?

I don't understand how it is that I can literally read your every thought on this board and not agree with one single thing you say.

If only Chiefsplanet held you to the same standard that you hold FC to.

Underwhelming, is how I would describe your posting style.

[-King-]

I don't understand how it is that I can literally read your every thought on this board and not agree with one single thing you say.

If only Chiefsplanet held you to the same standard that you hold FC to.

Underwhelming, is how I would describe your posting style.

Good thing I'm not getting paid 100million dollars huh?


Who really thought when we got Clark the thing we'd be bragging about was his ability to get double teamed? I don't get why holding a player who makes as much as he does and cost as much as he did to acquire to a higher standard is such a foreign concept to you guys. If we give Mahomes the biggest contract ever and he suddenly starts playing like Alex Smith, would you say he's underwhelming or would you start bragging about how well he avoids turnovers and about his hidden touchdowns?

[-King-]

From PFF so take it for what it's worth

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Forgot to tweet this on Monday: LT Kolton Miller (<a href="https://twitter.com/kolton_miller?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@kolton_miller</a>) allowed just one quarterback pressure against KC, per <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a>. No hits, no sacks allowed.<br><br>RDE Frank Clark rushed the passer 36 times vs OAK, and had zero sacks, zero hits, zero hurries.</p>&mdash; Scott Bair (@BairNBCS) <a href="https://twitter.com/BairNBCS/status/1174181602689200128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Iconic]

Some of you are honestly delusional. You guys keep saying as long as the defense improves he's worth the cost. How exactly do we know this defensive improvement is attributed to FC or I dunno... the entire ****ing scheme change.

As it stands, no he's not worth the price. But it's a small sample size and he's got 14 games to prove it wrong so I won't crown him the king of suckage just yet.

[Chris Meck]

Let's say his production is about the same up until halfway through the season. 4 TFLs in 8 games, 0 sacks, 0 hurries. But a whole lot of the kind of plays where people say, "Well, if you just watched the games, you'd see he's facing chips and double teams constantly and making these heads up plays here and screens and stretches blah blah blah"

Is that good enough? For what we paid for him?

If Jacksonville and their dipshit offensive coordinator and backup tackles can stop him from making shit explode in the backfield by throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him and other teams decide to do the exact same thing, will you be satisfied with that?

If he finished the year with 0 sacks, is that good enough?

Yes, that's a difference making player, but guess what? I said the exact same shit about Justin Houston, because for a time even after he got paid, he was that kind of player. I even made those exact same arguments, saying, "you're not even watching the game" to people who bitched about the contract we gave him and how he didn't show up on the stat sheet.

Hell, many of these same people who are crowing, "HUHR IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SACKS I KNO FOOTBALL!!!" were bitching about Justin Houston's production when, guess what... he actually WAS productive. No, not all, but some are.

I can already see people furiously typing away and calling this post a stupid hypothetical, but I actually mean it. Is that good enough? And if it isn't good enough, is it good enough for two games? No, not as a team. As an individual player.

You can say Frank Clark is a good player and still say, "He hasn't done what we needed him to do in these past couple games". Maybe he'll destroy the Ravens on Sunday. Great. Then whatever. I just think some people aren't actually watching the games like they claim they are and instead opting to parrot homer talking points that they heard other people bring up in this thread and other places.

Dude.

It's a TWO GAME sample size. yeah, I'd agree if we're midway through the year and he's got ZERO sacks and ZERO hurries and 4 TFL, then yeah, I'd be scratching my head.

That's not going to happen, unless he gets hurt.

What I and anyone else with eyes and a brain is telling you and King is that there's nothing wrong with his play and that the stats will come. The examples of good plays, the double teams, the excellent run defense are not meant to be the end-all. They're evidence that his play level is very high, and that there's nothing to be concerned about, the stats will come.

What we're saying is: Frank Clark's play looks like Frank Clark, and there's no reason to think he isn't going to put up numbers.

This was my purpose in putting up Mack's numbers through the same 2 games. It's an example of why freaking out over a 2 game sample size is stupid. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about the 'sack stat' guys. You don't extrapolate stats like that after two games. If he has a game with 5 sacks Sunday, does that mean he's on a pace for like 28 sacks this season? Do you see how stupid that is?

If it makes you feel like you've somehow won this asinine argument, then yeah, I'll agree with you that if after 8 games, he's got ZERO sacks, ZERO hurries, and 4 TFL then I will agree that we've overpaid for him to that point. Does that make you feel better? Can we move on now?

[Chris Meck]

OR, SNR and King-

How about you put this in your pipe and smoke it:

In 1990, Derrick Thomas put up 20.0 sacks. Pretty amazing season, right?

OH BUT WAIT-7 of those sacks came in one game. So that means that he had less than one sack per game for the other 15 games.

So I guess he fucking sucked, huh?

Do you see how dumb it is to try to project a season total after two games?

He looks fine, he looks like the same Frank Clark that put up 13 sacks last year and was a stud run defender. The numbers will come. Chill out.

[jettio]

I went and watched every snap of the 1st half concentrating on Clark. He was very good. Good tfl on a screen, another run stop in the backfield but Jacobs fell forward of the line. He was chipped, doubled and even chipped and doubled on one play. Oakland spent most of the 1st half getting the ball out very fast - im not sure what more you could ask of him? He looked pretty good to me...

I think the idea of getting the ball out fast is going to be a real difficult concept for these critics of Frank Clark to understand.

You might have to post some all-22 with stopwatches on the screen to explain the idea that QBs that throw right away are rarely sacked.

[-King-]

Frank Clark has 1 pressure this season according to PFR

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/defense_advanced.htm

The guy Chris Meck keeps comparing him with leads the league with 15.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Read the rest of the read. He admitted he had been drinking when he wrote that and walked it back.

So are you drinking now or do you not have an excuse?

[-King-]

OR, SNR and King-

How about you put this in your pipe and smoke it:

In 1990, Derrick Thomas put up 20.0 sacks. Pretty amazing season, right?

OH BUT WAIT-7 of those sacks came in one game. So that means that he had less than one sack per game for the other 15 games.

So I guess he fucking sucked, huh?

Do you see how dumb it is to try to project a season total after two games?

He looks fine, he looks like the same Frank Clark that put up 13 sacks last year and was a stud run defender. The numbers will come. Chill out.

No one said it's all about sacks. It's really not that hard to read before you post. But he really hadn't made any impact plays. We're going to need him to be more than the guy who gets double teamed if we really want this defense to be good enough to beat Tom Brady. Like I've said a million times, when you give up what we did and give him the contract he got, expectations are going to be a lot higher than the average defensive player.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Good thing I'm not getting paid 100million dollars huh?


Who really thought when we got Clark the thing we'd be bragging about was his ability to get double teamed? I don't get why holding a player who makes as much as he does and cost as much as he did to acquire to a higher standard is such a foreign concept to you guys. If we give Mahomes the biggest contract ever and he suddenly starts playing like Alex Smith, would you say he's underwhelming or would you start bragging about how well he avoids turnovers and about his hidden touchdowns?How do you feel about Aaron Donald? Best defensive player in the league?

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Let's say his production is about the same up until halfway through the season. 4 TFLs in 8 games, 0 sacks, 0 hurries. But a whole lot of the kind of plays where people say, "Well, if you just watched the games, you'd see he's facing chips and double teams constantly and making these heads up plays here and screens and stretches blah blah blah"

Is that good enough? For what we paid for him?

If Jacksonville and their dipshit offensive coordinator and backup tackles can stop him from making shit explode in the backfield by throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him and other teams decide to do the exact same thing, will you be satisfied with that?

If he finished the year with 0 sacks, is that good enough?

Yes, that's a difference making player, but guess what? I said the exact same shit about Justin Houston, because for a time even after he got paid, he was that kind of player. I even made those exact same arguments, saying, "you're not even watching the game" to people who bitched about the contract we gave him and how he didn't show up on the stat sheet.

Hell, many of these same people who are crowing, "HUHR IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT SACKS I KNO FOOTBALL!!!" were bitching about Justin Houston's production when, guess what... he actually WAS productive. No, not all, but some are.

I can already see people furiously typing away and calling this post a stupid hypothetical, but I actually mean it. Is that good enough? And if it isn't good enough, is it good enough for two games? No, not as a team. As an individual player.

You can say Frank Clark is a good player and still say, "He hasn't done what we needed him to do in these past couple games". Maybe he'll destroy the Ravens on Sunday. Great. Then whatever. I just think some people aren't actually watching the games like they claim they are and instead opting to parrot homer talking points that they heard other people bring up in this thread and other places.

This post is stupid and hypothetical...

[-King-]

So are you drinking now or do you not have an excuse?

What have I said thats wrong? When we traded for Clark and gave him that contract, were your expectations for him to be making impact plays or simply taking up double teams? If I told you he would face two backup tackles in our first two games and a backup QB in one of them, wouldn't you expect him to dominate at least of those games?

[RunKC]

From PFF so take it for what it's worth

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Forgot to tweet this on Monday: LT Kolton Miller (<a href="https://twitter.com/kolton_miller?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@kolton_miller</a>) allowed just one quarterback pressure against KC, per <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a>. No hits, no sacks allowed.<br><br>RDE Frank Clark rushed the passer 36 times vs OAK, and had zero sacks, zero hits, zero hurries.</p>&mdash; Scott Bair (@BairNBCS) <a href="https://twitter.com/BairNBCS/status/1174181602689200128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Context matters

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=14452151&postcount=154

[Chris Meck]

No one said it's all about sacks. It's really not that hard to read before you post. But he really hadn't made any impact plays. We're going to need him to be more than the guy who gets double teamed if we really want this defense to be good enough to beat Tom Brady. Like I've said a million times, when you give up what we did and give him the contract he got, expectations are going to be a lot higher than the average defensive player.

Your reading comprehension sucks.

Nothing you've posted there is what I'm saying at all. I've explained it, in plain english.

How about I tea-bag you and take pictures when Clark hits double digit sacks?

LMAO

[-King-]

How do you feel about Aaron Donald? Best defensive player in the league?
Yes and so far he hasnt been living up to being the highest paid defensive contract in their 2 games either. I don't care how often he gets double teamed.

[Chris Meck]

Yes and so far he hasnt been living up to being the highest paid defensive contract in their 2 games either. I don't care how often he gets double teamed.

Well, it's certainly a good thing the season isn't two games long, now isn't it?

Your argument is stupid.

[-King-]

Your reading comprehension sucks.

Nothing you've posted there is what I'm saying at all. I've explained it, in plain english.

How about I tea-bag you and take pictures when Clark hits double digit sacks?

LMAO

He better hit double digits sacks and he probably will. But he hasn't played well these past two games. I don't know why grading players on a game by game basis is so difficult for you guys to comprehend.

[Sassy Squatch]

Frank Clark has 1 pressure this season according to PFR

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/defense_advanced.htm

The guy Chris Meck keeps comparing him with leads the league with 15.
Ouch.

[-King-]

Well, it's certainly a good thing the season isn't two games long, now isn't it?

Your argument is stupid.

Yes it is. But he hasn't been great the past two games. Period.


Here's a question, do you think Mahomes has played well in the two games? Or can you not answer that either because a SeAsOn Is LoNgEr ThAn TwO GaMeS? Because I think he's played great so far. So if I can say Mahomes has played well so far, how come I can't say that Frank Clark hasn't played very well so far?

[Chris Meck]

He better hit double digits sacks and he probably will. But he hasn't played well these past two games. I don't know why grading players on a game by game basis is so difficult for you guys to comprehend.

Because it's fucking stupid.

You could say he had a bad game if:
He was getting blown off the ball
He missed multiple tackles
He cost the team with dumb penalties
he blew assignments

None of that is true, if you watch him. The stats you want to talk about will fluctuate from game to game, as I've illustrated, and you just choose to ignore.

Nobody is saying they expect 0 sacks and 0 pressures all fucking season. What we're saying is, he is playing at a high level and those stats will take care of themselves, because he's too fucking good for them not to. Just like Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game and then less than a sack a game the rest of the year, which was his best year. You don't look at a 2 game sample and decide what a player is. That's fucking stupid. Clark's body of work is that he's an elite DE, and he's playing like one, and the stats will all work out just fine.

If George Brett had a couple of games in which he went 0 for 4, it didn't mean he couldn't hit.

There's nothing wrong with Clark, just like there's nothing wrong with Aaron Donald. Those stats will fluctuate, and aren't full indicators of their impact on the game.

Jesus, how many different ways do you need to be shown?

[Chris Meck]

Yes it is. But he hasn't been great the past two games. Period.


Here's a question, do you think Mahomes has played well in the two games? Or can you not answer that either because a SeAsOn Is LoNgEr ThAn TwO GaMeS? Because I think he's played great so far. So if I can say Mahomes has played well so far, how come I can't say that Frank Clark hasn't played very well so far?

Are you actually mentally handicapped?

[O.city]

Because it's ****ing stupid.

You could say he had a bad game if:
He was getting blown off the ball
He missed multiple tackles
He cost the team with dumb penalties
he blew assignments

None of that is true, if you watch him. The stats you want to talk about will fluctuate from game to game, as I've illustrated, and you just choose to ignore.

Nobody is saying they expect 0 sacks and 0 pressures all ****ing season. What we're saying is, he is playing at a high level and those stats will take care of themselves, because he's too ****ing good for them not to. Just like Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game and then less than a sack a game the rest of the year, which was his best year. You don't look at a 2 game sample and decide what a player is. That's ****ing stupid. Clark's body of work is that he's an elite DE, and he's playing like one, and the stats will all work out just fine.

If George Brett had a couple of games in which he went 0 for 4, it didn't mean he couldn't hit.

There's nothing wrong with Clark, just like there's nothing wrong with Aaron Donald. Those stats will fluctuate, and aren't full indicators of their impact on the game.

Jesus, how many different ways do you need to be shown?


He doesn't suck.

He hasn't made impact plays yet, which is what he's getting paid to do. Paid a lot.

This isn't hard

[Chris Meck]

Frank Clark has 1 pressure this season according to PFR

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/defense_advanced.htm

The guy Chris Meck keeps comparing him with leads the league with 15.

And that chart has Khalil Mack as the #169th best Defensive player according to those 'advanced metrics'.

Kendall Fuller, Thornhill, Breeland, and Hitchens are all better players so far.

Think the Bears want to trade us for one of our better players?

No, because that would be stupid.

Like this argument.

[-King-]

And that chart has Khalil Mack as the #169th best Defensive player according to those 'advanced metrics'.

Kendall Fuller, Thornhill, Breeland, and Hitchens are all better players so far.

Think the Bears want to trade us for one of our better players?

No, because that would be stupid.

Like this argument.

No...that chart doesn't. ROFL

[Pitt Gorilla]

Yes and so far he hasnt been living up to being the highest paid defensive contract in their 2 games either. I don't care how often he gets double teamed.So, is he the best or does he suck?

[Chris Meck]

No...that chart doesn't. ROFL

is that not RK-as in rank at the left? Sure looks like it says "player rank".

edit-it's a count of rows. Whatever, it's stupid. Ranking players on two games worth of statistics is dumb.

[-King-]

So, is he the best or does he suck?

He's the best but he hasn't been playing like the best in the two games they've played.


I'm seriously confused why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

Do we need to shut down the forum until the end of the season in order to grade players? Can we not discuss games played anymore?

[Chris Meck]

He's the best but he hasn't been playing like the best in the two games they've played.


I'm seriously confused why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

Do we need to shut down the forum until the end of the season in order to grade players? Can we not discuss games played anymore?

He's playing very well, actually, he just hasn't got the stats that show that. If you actually watch him, down after down, you'll see that.

The stats will come, because he's too good for them not to. I don't know why that's so hard for you to grasp.

[-King-]

is that not RK-as in rank at the left? Sure looks like it says "player rank".

edit-it's a count of rows. Whatever, it's stupid. Ranking players on two games worth of statistics is dumb.

So you see now why your Khalil Mack comparison wasn't the best comparison to make though right? He's been getting doubled and everything and yet still has 14 more pressures than him and more impact plays than him. I'm not even asking Clark to be Khalil...but he's played 2 backup tackles and a team with a backup QB. He should have dominated at least one of those games. He should have sniffed Minshew and Clark at least a few times.

And because you're hung up on this...HE DOESN'T SUCK! TWO GAMES ARE NOT A REFLECTION OF HOW THE WHOLE SEASON IS GOING TO GO! But he hasn't been worth his pay in the two games he's played.

[Pitt Gorilla]

He's the best but he hasn't been playing like the best in the two games they've played.


I'm seriously confused why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

Do we need to shut down the forum until the end of the season in order to grade players? Can we not discuss games played anymore?How do you know he's the best if he hasn't been playing like it? Honest question.

[-King-]

He's playing very well, actually, he just hasn't got the stats that show that. If you actually watch him, down after down, you'll see that.

The stats will come, because he's too good for them not to. I don't know why that's so hard for you to grasp.

Frank Clark isn't the first player to get double teamed. Why are expectations so low for him. He should have the highest expectations on this whole team. He needs to show up on both the stat sheet and show up in areas that aren't on the stat sheet.

[-King-]

How do you know he's the best if he hasn't been playing like it? Honest question.

Because of his history. He has played well enough in the past that we should all expect more than he's done the last two games. Which is why those games are really disappointing.

I guess the word of the day is expectations.

[Halfcan]

Jones is double-teamed all the time and he just smashes through "Freelances" and sacks the QB.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

Teams have been getting the ball out really quick against us (that’s what Carr and Minshew do apparently).

Clark needs to perform better.

Is what it is.