Alex Smith did, does, and will always suck.

[Messier]

We're talking about a franchise that's drafted one quarterback in the first 3 rounds in ~30 years and you think the problem is people think they grow on trees?

I think the flip side to what you said is the "well, there's no Andrew Luck in this year's draft" from "the rest of us."

The truth of the matter is, as usual, somewhere in the middle... it's undeniable that the franchise has made very little effort to develop a quarterback and that overall, they seem pretty content with stop gap QBs who can rise to mediocrity, as opposed to taking a QB who's pretty much guaranteed to struggle for a year or three. It's been low risk/low reward for decades, and they've gotten what they've put into it.

It's not as simple as a trip to QBMart, and it's not as simple as waiting for the next Peyton Manning.... but, it is as simple as trying. They've had the same strategy for FORTY YEARS... and I don't think fans are asking too much if they tried once every few decades to do something different.

Who has had the same strategy? Because Dorsey and Reid have nothing to do with Peterson or any other GM that didn't draft a QB in the first round. Just because its been a long time doesn't mean you just do it because it's been long enough. A new coach targeted who he wanted, and it wasn't any rookie, and as of right now I say, well done Dorsey and Reid.

[ChiefsCountry]

"Some people are just happy with a bunch of regular season wins"

Here is a question I would like to ask again.

At the beginning of the season there were a bunch if numb nuts saying we could have gotten a QB just as good as Smith for far less.
And that we didn't get the best QB available.

You people still believe that?

And if so, Who?

There really isn't that much difference between all of them.

[BWillie]

After Alex's 5 TD game, he went from 22nd last week in QB Rating to #10 this week. IN ONE WEEK. No moar Alex Smiff!

[BossChief]

I have no clue on what people have bet but I will weigh in on one thing that has bugged me for awhile. The "leave for x amount of time" bets are dumb.

New policy:

They will NEVER be enforced by me or the other mods. On the other hand, I have no problem enforcing sig bets and all other manner of punishments for people running their mouth and being wrong.
Interesting.
I just hate how some people on this forum talk about how high their standards are compared to everybody elses.Some are more fed up than others.

Do they have to do so immediately? Can they go get a competent starting QB and run with that guy for a bit? Maybe win a few games and keep banners from circling the stadium in the process?

The only constant in the period you're mentioning was Lamar Hunt. He's gone now. Clark made a mistake in his first set of hires. In his last set he brought in guys that absolutely share the preferred position that we should attempt to bring in and develop our own guy.

Andy Reid and a Ron Wolf disciple - you'll be hard pressed to find stronger proponents of a 'draft/develop the QB' school.

So maybe we should trust that they share your belief (and mine, as well as many others that like the Smith acquisition) but that they simply didn't see a player worth making that attempt this year.

Seem fair?

I think the early results for this regime should at minimum buy them the benefit of the doubt in the future.

Most of their moves have been solid. It's just a shame that we lost so much to injury because I was pretty excited to see guys like Commings, Kelce and a couple others get out there and contribute.

After leaving training camp, one of the most exciting things I came away with was getting to watch Alex and Kelce build some rapport.

If he was able to stay healthy, he would be a difference maker right now.

[OnTheWarpath15]

This needs to be read out-loud by the haters every morning when they wake up.

For what purpose?

There are less than 10 regulars here - maybe less than 5 - that have the "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality that DJ described.

[Tribal Warfare]

After Alex's 5 TD game, he went from 22nd last week in QB Rating to #10 this week. IN ONE WEEK. No moar Alex Smiff!

Thanks Jamaal, you're getting a fruit basket and a gift certificate at an oriental massage parlor <mytubeelement data="{&quot;bundle&quot;:{&quot;label_delimitor&quot;:&quot;:&quot;,&quot;percentage&quot;:&quot;%&quot;,&quot;smart_buffer&quot;:&quot;Smart Buffer&quot;,&quot;start_playing_when_buffered&quot;:&quot;Start playing when buffered&quot;,&quot;sound&quot;:&quot;Sound&quot;,&quot;desktop_notification&quot;:&quot;Desktop Notification&quot;,&quot;continuation_on_next_line&quot;:&quot;-&quot;,&quot;loop&quot;:&quot;Loop&quot;,&quot;only_notify&quot;:&quot;Only Notify&quot;,&quot;estimated_time&quot;:&quot;Estimated Time&quot;,&quot;global_preferences&quot;:&quot;Global Preferences&quot;,&quot;no_notification_supported_on_your_browser&quot;:&quot;No notification style supported on your browser version&quot;,&quot;video_buffered&quot;:&quot;Video Buffered&quot;,&quot;buffered&quot;:&quot;Buffered&quot;,&quot;hyphen&quot;:&quot;-&quot;,&quot;buffered_message&quot;:&quot;The video has been buffered as requested and is ready to play.&quot;,&quot;not_supported&quot;:&quot;Not Supported&quot;,&quot;on&quot;:&quot;On&quot;,&quot;off&quot;:&quot;Off&quot;,&quot;click_to_enable_for_this_site&quot;:&quot;Click to enable for this site&quot;,&quot;desktop_notification_denied&quot;:&quot;You have denied permission for desktop notification for this site&quot;,&quot;notification_status_delimitor&quot;:&quot;;&quot;,&quot;error&quot;:&quot;Error&quot;,&quot;adblock_interferance_message&quot;:&quot;Adblock (or similar extension) is known to interfere with SmartVideo. Please add this url to adblock whitelist.&quot;,&quot;calculating&quot;:&quot;Calculating&quot;,&quot;waiting&quot;:&quot;Waiting&quot;,&quot;will_start_buffering_when_initialized&quot;: &quot;Will start buffering when initialized&quot;,&quot;will_start_playing_when_initialized&quot;:&quot;Will start playing when initialized&quot;,&quot;completed&quot;:&quot;Completed&quot;,&quot;buffering_stalled&quot;:&quot;Buffering is stalled. Will stop.&quot;,&quot;stopped&quot;:&quot;Stopped&quot;,&quot;hr&quot;:&quot;Hr&quot;,&quot;min&quot;:&quot;Min&quot;,&quot;sec&quot;:&quot;Sec&quot;,&quot;any_moment&quot;:&quot;Any Moment&quot;,&quot;popup_donate_to&quot;:&quot;Donate to&quot;,&quot;extension_id&quot;:null},&quot;prefs&quot;:{&quot;desktopNotification&quot;:true,&quot;soundNotification&quot;:true,&quot;logLevel&quot;:0,&quot; enable&quot;:true,&quot;loop&quot;:false,&quot;hidePopup&quot;:false,&quot;autoPlay&quot;:false,&quot;autoBuffer&quot;:true,&quot;autoPlayOnBuffer&quot;:tr ue,&quot;autoPlayOnBufferPercentage&quot;:42,&quot;autoPlayOnSmartBuffer&quot;:true,&quot;quality&quot;:&quot;hd1080&quot;,&quot;fshd&quot;:true,&quot;only Notification&quot;:false,&quot;enableFullScreen&quot;:true,&quot;saveBandwidth&quot;:true,&quot;hideAnnotations&quot;:false,&quot;turnOffPag edBuffering&quot;:true}}" event="preferencesUpdated" id="myTubeRelayElementToPage"></mytubeelement><mytubeelement data="{&quot;loadBundle&quot;:true}" event="relayPrefs" id="myTubeRelayElementToTab"></mytubeelement>

[SAUTO]

For what purpose?

There are less than 10 regulars here - maybe less than 5 - that have the "Super Bowl or Bust" mentality that DJ described.

I just want to win a playoff game first...

[ChiefsCountry]

After Alex's 5 TD game, he went from 22nd last week in QB Rating to #10 this week. IN ONE WEEK. No moar Alex Smiff!

Jumped 12 spots in one week. But stayed the same in the ESPN rating.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Why would you use the decision making process of people who you are obviously not like minded with to form your own opinions?
Makes no sense, and seems very childish.

I have no idea WTF you are trying to say here.

I have formed my own opinion - that it's not unfair to expect a QB who is good enough to win 11+ games win at least a playoff game.

I'm asking, "why the double standard?"

When Matt Ryan, as an example, loses a playoff game, no one gives a shit that he just happened to face Aaron Rodgers, who put up a ridiculously incredible performance against his defense.

The majority of what you hear is, "well, he lost. He's a loser."

Yet people want to put conditions on a potential Alex Smith playoff loss.

[Bearcat]

Do they have to do so immediately? Can they go get a competent starting QB and run with that guy for a bit? Maybe win a few games and keep banners from circling the stadium in the process?

The only constant in the period you're mentioning was Lamar Hunt. He's gone now. Clark made a mistake in his first set of hires. In his last set he brought in guys that absolutely share the preferred position that we should attempt to bring in and develop our own guy.

Andy Reid and a Ron Wolf disciple - you'll be hard pressed to find stronger proponents of a 'draft/develop the QB' school.

So maybe we should trust that they share your belief (and mine, as well as many others that like the Smith acquisition) but that they simply didn't see a player worth making that attempt this year.

Seem fair?

Yeah, I know, and I wasn't really arguing about Smith or this season specifically, even though it certainly looked like a repeat of a few years ago. As far as your question on doing it immediately and using Smith as a stop gap, that's where the frustration lies... that's how it's always been. Win some games, shit crumbles, get a stop gap, repeat.

I've said all along that I liked the hires for the reason you pointed out, but even though we obviously can't blame them for past failures and even though they should only do what's best for the future and not simply draft a QB to make some fans happy, none of that erases the years of frustration, the fact that we've not only seen the stop gap strategy over and over, but have also felt the same optimism for it, and the feeling that we've seen all of this before just leaves me apathetic about the whole thing.

Yeah, I want to believe it's different THIS time and THIS regime really does know what they're doing and THIS draft was just the worst possible draft for QBs, etc.

Like I said, from the day they traded for Smith through the first several weeks of the season, I was pretty apathetic about the whole thing, but I realize Dorsey and Reid and company came into this season just as blind as we were, and evaluating an NFL team isn't accomplished in a week or even half a season. Like you said in another post, we're really damn fickle around here, even though single games just don't mean much. "Trust" is stretching it, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt (what other choice is there?) until at worst they make it abundantly clear we're on the same ride we've always been on.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I just want to win a playoff game first...

Same.

If anyone has been paying attention, I've backed off my criticism of Smith.

Coincidentally, that has occurred at the exact time he actually started playing like a Top 10 QB.

Shame on me for expecting a guy that we paid a premium for to continue that level of play in the playoffs.

[SAUTO]

Same.

If anyone has been paying attention, I've backed off my criticism of Smith.

Coincidentally, that has occurred at the exact time he actually started playing like a Top 10 QB.

Shame on me for expecting a guy that we paid a premium for to continue that level of play in the playoffs.

SHAME ON YOU!!!

[Bearcat]

Same.

If anyone has been paying attention, I've backed off my criticism of Smith.

Coincidentally, that has occurred at the exact time he actually started playing like a Top 10 QB.

Shame on me for expecting a guy that we paid a premium for to continue that level of play in the playoffs.

WEIRD

[beach tribe]

I have no idea WTF you are trying to say here.

I have formed my own opinion - that it's not unfair to expect a QB who is good enough to win 11+ games win at least a playoff game.

I'm asking, "why the double standard?"

When Matt Ryan, as an example, loses a playoff game, no one gives a shit that he just happened to face Aaron Rodgers, who put up a ridiculously incredible performance against his defense.

The majority of what you hear is, "well, he lost. He's a loser."

Yet people want to put conditions on a potential Alex Smith playoff loss.
But you're saying that no matter how Smith plays if he loses to another good QB you are going to label him a loser?

[beach tribe]

Same.

If anyone has been paying attention, I've backed off my criticism of Smith.

Coincidentally, that has occurred at the exact time he actually started playing like a Top 10 QB.

Shame on me for expecting a guy that we paid a premium for to continue that level of play in the playoffs.

FTR I expect him to win a PO game too

[SAUTO]

FTR I expect him to win a PO game too

we all should.

[OnTheWarpath15]

But you're saying that no matter how Smith plays if he loses to another good QB you are going to label him a loser?

I'm not going to "label" him anything. I'm pointing out the double standard on this board.

People are already setting up conditions for a potential loss, when they refuse to do the same for any other QB.

[beach tribe]

OTWP.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative.
I just have a hard time shitting on AS if he plays well and loses in the POs

And I'm not one of the guys who have attacked the likes of Ryan and such.

I'm aware that when you are in the POs you are playing quality teams and the any given Sunday theme gets even more real.

[ChiefsCountry]

I'm not going to "label" him anything. I'm pointing out the double standard on this board.

People are already setting up conditions for a potential loss.

Succopp
Receivers
Offensive Line
Defense
Special Teams

One of those will be the excuse.

[beach tribe]

I'm not going to "label" him anything. I'm pointing out the double standard on this board.

People are already setting up conditions for a potential loss, when they refuse to do the same for any other QB.

Gotcha.

Label. Lol.

[OnTheWarpath15]

we all should.

Exactly. But instead, people are already setting conditions on how we might lose.

Meanwhile, in another thread, Tony Romo is getting crucified for his defense giving up 37 points - 34 in the 2nd half alone - on 5 drives, 3 of which were 80 yards, one set up by a punt return.

The Dallas defense gave up 28 points on 3 80-yard drives before Romo threw the "difference making" INT.

Yet Romo is taking all the blame.

[beach tribe]

Succopp
Receivers
Offensive Line
Defense
Special Teams

One of those will be the excuse.

What will it be when he wins?

Defense?
STs
Jamaal Charles?

[mschiefs1984]

I'm not going to "label" him anything. I'm pointing out the double standard on this board.

People are already setting up conditions for a potential loss, when they refuse to do the same for any other QB.

I will never understand why people always put things on the QB. I get it QB is the most important spot in the game of football. But that means every one gets a hall pass it makes no sense.

If Alex plays like crap in the playoffs I will be upset with him. If Alex plays like a Manning playoff game puts up points but yet still manages to throw a late costly pick. I will still be upset with Alex. But if we see a repeat of the Chargers game and Alex throws a big TD pass late in the game and the defense blows it I don't see how anyone could be upset with Alex. Was the 03 playoff game on Trent? I'm the same way with every QB.

[beach tribe]

Exactly. But instead, people are already setting conditions on how we might lose.

Meanwhile, in another thread, Tony Romo is getting crucified for his defense giving up 37 points - 34 in the 2nd half alone - on 5 drives, 3 of which were 80 yards, one set up by a punt return.

The Dallas defense gave up 28 points on 3 80-yard drives before Romo threw the "difference making" INT.

Yet Romo is taking all the blame.

Just like there are those here who blame Alex for not winning against SD and Denver.
He played good enough to win but it is still laid at his feet.

The double standard goes both ways for sure.

[OnTheWarpath15]

OTWP.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative.
I just have a hard time shitting on AS if he plays well and loses in the POs

And I'm not one of the guys who have attacked the likes of Ryan and such.

I'm aware that when you are in the POs you are playing quality teams and the any given Sunday theme gets even more real.

I think one of the disconnects is the definition of "plays well".

We've been subject to so much shitty QB play over the last 5 years that not turning the ball over means he "played well" to some people.

There was nothing extraordinary about his performance yesterday, and he said as much to the media.

Yet some folks here think that it's proof he's something more than what we all know he is - a mostly average, sometime above average QB.

[O.city]

Exactly. But instead, people are already setting conditions on how we might lose.

Meanwhile, in another thread, Tony Romo is getting crucified for his defense giving up 37 points - 34 in the 2nd half alone - on 5 drives, 3 of which were 80 yards, one set up by a punt return.

The Dallas defense gave up 28 points on 3 80-yard drives before Romo threw the "difference making" INT.

Yet Romo is taking all the blame.

Who is setting up these conditions?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Just like there are those here who blame Alex for not winning against SD and Denver.
He played good enough to win but it is still laid at his feet.

The double standard goes both ways for sure.

Well, there's that definition of "good enough".

I don't think disappearing for two quarters like he did against Denver is "good enough".

[beach tribe]

Well, there's that definition of "good enough".

I don't think disappearing for two quarters like he did against Denver is "good enough".

Neither is throwing a pick with the game on the line:/

[OnTheWarpath15]

Neither is throwing a pick with the game on the line:/

Is throwing an INT really any worse than skipping a WR screen off Jenkins' shoetops on 3rd down, or being late to decide to throw on 4th down at the end Denver game?

The result is the same.

[Marcellus]

Exactly. But instead, people are already setting conditions on how we might lose.

Meanwhile, in another thread, Tony Romo is getting crucified for his defense giving up 37 points - 34 in the 2nd half alone - on 5 drives, 3 of which were 80 yards, one set up by a punt return.

The Dallas defense gave up 28 points on 3 80-yard drives before Romo threw the "difference making" INT.

Yet Romo is taking all the blame.

Where is this happening?

[beach tribe]

Is throwing an INT really any worse than skipping a WR screen off Jenkins' shoetops on 3rd down, or being late to decide to throw on 4th down at the end Denver game?

The result is the same.
And yet you make excuses for Romo.

Double standard.

[beach tribe]

Where is this happening?

It's like DJ said.

A boogeyman based on a false narrative.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Where is this happening?

It's happened in the last 50 posts of this thread.

DJ said something along the lines of it being a "random ass game", IIRC.

Others have said, "well, what if THIS happens?" (meaning Alex "played well" and another part of the team is supposed to take the blame)

Just a few examples.

[beach tribe]

It's happened in the last 50 posts of this thread.

DJ said something along the lines of it being a "random ass game", IIRC.

Others have said, "well, what if THIS happens?" (meaning Alex "played well" and another part of the team is supposed to take the blame)

Just a few examples.

Thats just people asking you, if basically the same situation you are defending Romo for happened to Smith in the POs, would you call him a failure?
Doesn't seem like you would if it happened to Romo.

[OnTheWarpath15]

And yet you make excuses for Romo.

Double standard.

It's only a double standard if I blame Alex for a loss that he didn't really play a part in.

Which I haven't done, nor have I for any other QB. I'm usually the guy standing up for the Romos and Ryans while the rest of the board blames them.

But again, it depends on your interpretation of "good enough".

IMO, Alex was good enough in the SD game. He wasn't in the Denver games.

Lets see how he plays and then debate it, instead of coming up with these hypothetical conditions.

[mschiefs1984]

It's happened in the last 50 posts of this thread.

DJ said something along the lines of it being a "random ass game", IIRC.

Others have said, "well, what if THIS happens?" (meaning Alex "played well" and another part of the team is supposed to take the blame)

Just a few examples.

And what's wrong with that? If Alex plays well and we lose it's Alex's fault? IT MAKES NO SENSE. NONE.

2003 loss was on Trent Green?

The requirement is there. Alex has to play well. If not he is at fault. But if he throws 4td passes and the defense gives it up like they did against the Chargers then that's on Alex. REALLY?

[Marcellus]

It's happened in the last 50 posts of this thread.

DJ said something along the lines of it being a "random ass game", IIRC.

Others have said, "well, what if THIS happens?" (meaning Alex "played well" and another part of the team is supposed to take the blame)

Just a few examples.

I guess I'm just not reading it that way. I mean the discussion was about winning a playoff game and it is possible Alex could play well and we lose.

He could play poor and we could win though not likely.

It's not as simple as everyone always wants to make things but in the end the QB usually gets the glory or the blame.

I think the price we paid in the trade makes a playoff win critical to it being a success. Not necessarily this year but why not expect it this year, we have already won 11 games and will likely draw a beatable opponent.

[kcxiv]

And what's wrong with that? If Alex plays well and we lose it's Alex's fault? IT MAKES NO SENSE. NONE.

2003 loss was on Trent Green?

The requirement is there. Alex has to play well. If not he is at fault. But if he throws 4td passes and the defense gives it up like they did against the Chargers then that's on Alex. REALLY?

It was Trents fault that Priest fumbled! **** TriNT lol

Alex didnt get them in FG range with 20 seconds left in the game! He lost the game for them /cp

[dirk digler]

Exactly. But instead, people are already setting conditions on how we might lose.

Meanwhile, in another thread, Tony Romo is getting crucified for his defense giving up 37 points - 34 in the 2nd half alone - on 5 drives, 3 of which were 80 yards, one set up by a punt return.

The Dallas defense gave up 28 points on 3 80-yard drives before Romo threw the "difference making" INT.

Yet Romo is taking all the blame.

I am one of them that is crucifying him. And I imagine that you along with the rest of us will be bitching about AS if he threw 2 INT's in the last 3 minutes while we were winning to end up losing the playoff game.

Otherwise we are in agreement in this thread. I expect AS to play well and win a playoff game. That is not expecting too much.

[Sandy Vagina]

Best part of Alex Smith's game - He is at his best when it matters most. It's almost easy to forget that the Raiders turned yesterday's Jamaalihilation into an actual, real life football game at one point. 35-31 with the Chiefs facing 3rd and 1. Boom! Playaction, wheel route, perfect throw, 42-31, goodnight sweetheart. But Alex has been doing this all season. He came up with a big drive to seal the win in both Philly and Tennessee. He led multiple lead changing drives against San Diego in the fourth quarter. He fought back from two scores down against Denver. I'm at a point now where I trust Alex with the game on the line. And in the NFL, if you don't have an elite QB, you best damn have a clutch one. And I say Alex is clutch.

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2013/12/16/5217584/chiefs-vs-raiders-the-best-and-the-worst


http://yoursmiles.org/csmile/wink/c0533.gif

[OnTheWarpath15]

And what's wrong with that? If Alex plays well and we lose it's Alex's fault? IT MAKES NO SENSE. NONE.

2003 loss was on Trent Green?

The requirement is there. Alex has to play well. If not he is at fault. But if he throws 4td passes and the defense gives it up like they did against the Chargers then that's on Alex. REALLY?

Who is saying any of this? Not me.

I'm the guy actually steering clear of the what ifs, and waiting to see what actually happens before judging him - because "he played well" means different things to different people.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I guess I'm just not reading it that way. I mean the discussion was about winning a playoff game and it is possible Alex could play well and we lose.

He could play poor and we could win though not likely.

It's not as simple as everyone always wants to make things but in the end the QB usually gets the glory or the blame.

I think the price we paid in the trade makes a playoff win critical to it being a success. Not necessarily this year but why not expect it this year, we have already won 11 games and will likely draw a beatable opponent.

Again, people have different interpretations of "played well".

IMO, he didn't exactly play well for most of the first 8-9 games, yet we won them all - so I'm not sure why you find it unlikely to happen.

[beach tribe]

Lets see how he plays and then debate it, instead of coming up with these hypothetical conditions.
This makes worlds of sense.

[mschiefs1984]

Who is saying any of this? Not me.

I'm the guy actually steering clear of the what ifs, and waiting to see what actually happens before judging him - because "he played well" means different things to different people.

You may not have been saying that but there are a number who were.

Just look at the Charger game. People were like

"Alex just couldn't keep up"

"Rivers had a perfect game Alex didn't"

That's why you get people saying if Alex plays well they won't put a playoff loss on Alex. Alex has played well in a game the Chiefs lost and it was put on him by some

[Messier]

It's only a double standard if I blame Alex for a loss that he didn't really play a part in.

Which I haven't done, nor have I for any other QB. I'm usually the guy standing up for the Romos and Ryans while the rest of the board blames them.

But again, it depends on your interpretation of "good enough".

IMO, Alex was good enough in the SD game. He wasn't in the Denver games.

Lets see how he plays and then debate it, instead of coming up with these hypothetical conditions.

I disagree on the Denver at KC game.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I am one of them that is crucifying him. And I imagine that you along with the rest of us will be bitching about AS if he threw 2 INT's in the last 3 minutes while we were winning to end up losing the playoff game.

That's why I'm trying to avoid the "what if" game that everyone else wants to play - there are too many variables.

Does he play lights out for 55 minutes - putting up 36 points and giving the defense a 23 point lead, only to see them give it all back before he ever throws the INTs?

Or does he play poorly, miss some opportunities to put the game away, it stays tight, and then he throws a late INT?

Again, "good enough" is going to be interpreted differently by different people.

[OnTheWarpath15]

I disagree on the Denver at KC game.

This is what I mean.

Smith did nothing for 2 full quarters, but because we had a chance to win at the end, some people think that's good enough.

If he plays even average ball in Q2 and Q3, that game never comes down to the final possession.

[beach tribe]

Again, people have different interpretations of "played well".

IMO, he didn't exactly play well for most of the first 8-9 games, yet we won them all - so I'm not sure why you find it unlikely to happen.

You said it's not too much to ask for a QB who won 11 games to win a PO game.
Said he has played like top 10 QB the last five weeks.

What is YOUR interpretation of played well cause it doesn't seem like you have a solid handle on it.

[BossChief]

It's only a double standard if I blame Alex for a loss that he didn't really play a part in.

Which I haven't done, nor have I for any other QB. I'm usually the guy standing up for the Romos and Ryans while the rest of the board blames them.

But again, it depends on your interpretation of "good enough".

IMO, Alex was good enough in the SD game. He wasn't in the Denver games.

Lets see how he plays and then debate it, instead of coming up with these hypothetical conditions.
PI completely disagree with you on his level of play against Denver at Arrowhead.

If it weren't for Avery and others dropping really good throws, Alex would have had over 400 yards passing and the outcome would be completely different.

I'm not one to use WR drops as an excuse, but Alex was playing at a high level that game.

[DJ's left nut]

I'm not going to "label" him anything. I'm pointing out the double standard on this board.

People are already setting up conditions for a potential loss, when they refuse to do the same for any other QB.

My point is that, win or lose, it doesn't change who this guy is as a QB.

Sure, he may go out there and play a shit game - in which case we lose and he played a huge part of it. It doesn't mean he's a shitty QB, it means he's a slightly above average QB that had a bad game at a bad time.

If he has a great game and takes us to a win - he's not a better QB; he just played a great game.

So why are folks still eager to say that the playoff game will be dispositive of who the guy is as a QB? Tom Brady's playoff losses don't define who he is as a QB, nor do his wins - the guy's just a great QB. Same story with Brees, Rodgers, etc...

Mark Sanchez's playoff wins don't define who he is as a QB - he's a shitty QB. Same with Tim Tebow and Jake Delhomme.

Alex Smith is who he is. At this point we have to hope he goes out and plays a good game when we need him to, but in the end it doesn't really change who he is. He's a solid QB that is capable of playing good games and capable of playing bad ones. We just need to hope the bad ones don't come in the post-season.

[BossChief]

This is what I mean.

Smith did nothing for 2 full quarters, but because we had a chance to win at the end, some people think that's good enough.

If he plays even average ball in Q2 and Q3, that game never comes down to the final possession.

You need to go back and watch that time span without the emotion of the moment.

Alex was putting the ball on the money.

[dirk digler]

That's why I'm trying to avoid the "what if" game that everyone else wants to play - there are too many variables.

Does he play lights out for 55 minutes - putting up 36 points and giving the defense a 23 point lead, only to see them give it all back before he ever throws the INTs?

Or does he play poorly, miss some opportunities to put the game away, it stays tight, and then he throws a late INT?

Again, "good enough" is going to be interpreted differently by different people.

I understand. For me, I like to keep it simple. How does a player finish..that is all that matters.

[O.city]

This is what I mean.

Smith did nothing for 2 full quarters, but because we had a chance to win at the end, some people think that's good enough.

If he plays even average ball in Q2 and Q3, that game never comes down to the final possession.

I mean, isn't giving yourself a chance to win "good enough"?

He wasn't great, but we were a play from overtime.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You may not have been saying that but there are a number who were.

Just look at the Charger game. People were like

"Alex just couldn't keep up"

"Rivers had a perfect game Alex didn't"

That's why you get people saying if Alex plays well they won't put a playoff loss on Alex. Alex has played well in a game the Chiefs lost and it was put on him by some

In fairness, those two comments are correct.

Yeah, we scored 38? points in that game, but we were also pretty shitty IIRC on 3rd down. 30% I think, while SD was near 50%.

So yeah, I can see why some would say those things. Personally, I think he played about as well as he's capable of in that game, so I can't blame him.

I can understand why others might blame him partially, however. Anyone blaming him completely is a moron, though.

[BossChief]

The drops his receivers had against Denver's were HUGE.

The pass to Jenkins was PERFECT and the LOS was the 31 and the pass was dropped on the other 30 yard line. That's 39 yards off the board.

Next pass (Fasanos concussion) LOS is the 33 and the pass was dropped at the 41. That's another 26 yards that were left on the field due to a drop.

That's 65 yards on just 2 throws.

His very next throw goes right through the hands of Bowe that would have gone for 7 yards.

The next pass goes to Hemmingway for a decent gain.

The very next pass play is from the 30 yard line and Avery drops a beautiful pass at the 35 yard line. Another 35 yards off the board.

By my count, that's 107 yards on drops (not considering any yac, just where the drop happened).

The very next passing play (After Charles picks up a first on a 16 yard run) Alex goes right back to Avery again. LOS is the Denver 49 and the pass is near perfect and is dropped at the 34 yard line.

15 more yards.

The total is now up to 122.

I know there were more drops in this one, but FFS it sucks watching how bad these were on the DVR after seeing them live.

I don't know what else Alex could have done during that time span...

[Messier]

This is what I mean.

Smith did nothing for 2 full quarters, but because we had a chance to win at the end, some people think that's good enough.

If he plays even average ball in Q2 and Q3, that game never comes down to the final possession.

Did you watch that game? The drops. My god, the drops.

[OnTheWarpath15]

You said it's not too much to ask for a QB who won 11 games to win a PO game.
Said he has played like top 10 QB the last five weeks.

What is YOUR interpretation of played well cause it doesn't seem like you have a solid handle on it.

Funny, my post said nothing about the last five weeks.

Might want to go back and re-read it.

[Bearcat]

My point is that, win or lose, it doesn't change who this guy is as a QB.

Sure, he may go out there and play a shit game - in which case we lose and he played a huge part of it. It doesn't mean he's a shitty QB, it means he's a slightly above average QB that had a bad game at a bad time.

If he has a great game and takes us to a win - he's not a better QB; he just played a great game.

So why are folks still eager to say that the playoff game will be dispositive of who the guy is as a QB? Tom Brady's playoff losses don't define who he is as a QB, nor do his wins - the guy's just a great QB. Same story with Brees, Rodgers, etc...

Mark Sanchez's playoff wins don't define who he is as a QB - he's a shitty QB. Same with Tim Tebow and Jake Delhomme.

Alex Smith is who he is. At this point we have to hope he goes out and plays a good game when we need him to, but in the end it doesn't really change who he is. He's a solid QB that is capable of playing good games and capable of playing bad ones. We just need to hope the bad ones don't come in the post-season.

Well, because everyone needs answers and they need them now. It's all black and white. Bets depend on it. People argue this shit for months and need to know if they won. And you think this has to do with football?!?

Seriously though, spot on... I was amused at the reactions to the losses. We've known what this team was and how Alex Smith fit at the end of September, or maybe sooner. We discussed for 2+ months that the team could win some games but probably couldn't beat the high scoring offenses, which was fine because 2-14, of course... then they lose a couple to a couple of high scoring offenses and suddenly everything has changed!

If people are tired of talking about Alex Smith now, just wait until the playoff game is over... either way, holy shit, this place is going to be really crazy.

[OnTheWarpath15]

PI completely disagree with you on his level of play against Denver at Arrowhead.

If it weren't for Avery and others dropping really good throws, Alex would have had over 400 yards passing and the outcome would be completely different.

I'm not one to use WR drops as an excuse, but Alex was playing at a high level that game.

IIRC, Duncan Idaho broke down each of those drives, and 3 of the 4 drops had no bearing on the score - we scored on the drives in question.

[Messier]

IIRC, Duncan Idaho broke down each of those drives, and 3 of the 4 drops had no bearing on the score - we scored on the drives in question.

No we didn't.

[O.city]

I believe there was 1 drive in that span where we didn't score, there was also te grounding penalty in there somewhere

[beach tribe]

IIRC, Duncan Idaho broke down each of those drives, and 3 of the 4 drops had no bearing on the score - we scored on the drives in question.

Can anyone confirm this?
I remember some huge drops.
Drive killers I thought.

[OnTheWarpath15]

There is one drive - ONE - on Sunday in which they don't overcome the drops. That's it. Pretty hard to add 100 yards from one drive. Every other drive? the drops were overcome. Look at the play-by-play. Watch the game film again. Something. The only drive that ended due to "drops" was the on in the third quarter, where Fasano and Jenkins dropped back-to-back passes.

You can't add a bunch of points and yards based off of one failed drive.

I don't expect perfection. But I'm also not going to grade Alex Smith's performance on Sunday against Denver on extremely friendly curve so many of his defenders are.

He played OK. Pretty well. Pretty good. However you want to say it. He gets a B for the game.

Excellent? Only in QB-starved KC could what we saw on Sunday be considered "excellent."
.

[beach tribe]

No we didn't.

I didn't think so.

[ChiefsCountry]

Can anyone confirm this?
I remember some huge drops.
Drive killers I thought.

One drive in the third. Jenkins and Fasano drops.

The other drive we scored a touchdown.

[ChiefsCountry]

Here is the 3rd quarter drive.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=331201012&period=3

Here is the 4th quarter drive.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=331201012&period=4

[BossChief]

Something that as gone somewhat unnoticed/unmentioned (TMK anyway) is that Alex has been throwing the ball intermediate to deep with some consistency as of the last few weeks. The trouble is that the majority of those throws have been dropped by Avery and Jenkins.

I think the biggest reason we killed Oakland on all those screens was because they had a gameplan in place to try and limit our ability to pass by blitzing a lot and keeping their safeties deep to get pressure to try to eliminate those throws and we had a haymaker as a punter punch that they kept walking right into.

T

[beach tribe]

.

He says they didn't stop the drive. But there were some long passes that we're dropped.

We did not score on said drives they just didn't die.

Not sure but isn't that the game that Dex dropped the sure TD?
Maybe not.

[Messier]

Looking at the drives, and sure, with hindsight, we should have gone for that 4th and 2 on the Broncos 42 in the third.

[ChiefRocka]

Confucius say drops are momentum killers, need port-o-jon...

[BossChief]

Looking at the drives, and sure, with hindsight, we should have gone for that 4th and 2 on the Broncos 42 in the third.

We also punted on the drive that Fasano and Jenkins dropped 50+ yards of throws that were on the money.

The idea that Alex didn't do anything in the third quarter of that game doesn't hold water.

[chiefzilla1501]

He says they didn't stop the drive. But there were some long passes that we're dropped.

We did not score on said drives they just didn't die.

Not sure but isn't that the game that Dex dropped the sure TD?
Maybe not.

No, that drop was a long time ago. Dex has been one of our most reliable 4th quarter receivers this year. Since the by week, he had a huge 18 yard and 28 yard reception on a critical 4th quarter drive, in addition to a huge almost TD on the 6 (short by 1 yard due to a face mask).

[chiefzilla1501]

This is what I mean.

Smith did nothing for 2 full quarters, but because we had a chance to win at the end, some people think that's good enough.

If he plays even average ball in Q2 and Q3, that game never comes down to the final possession.

It is absolutely insane that anyone would give Alex Smith a tough time for his performance against Denver. Look, Alex Smith isn't an elite QB. But he played like an excellent QB that game and did enough to win.

To beat Peyton Manning, your QB has to be close to perfect. Smith was asked to be perfect AND cover up boneheaded mistakes. You said Smith didn't do anything for 2 quarters. In the 2nd quarter, he had a 2nd and 20 forced on him on a horseshit grounding call. In another drive, should probably ask why Dex decided to pin his team on the 3 yard line, which to me, completely destroyed our momentum in that game and limited our playbook on that drive. In the 3rd quarter, one drive was killed by 2 drops. On the other 3rd quarter drive, he didn't convert a 3rd and 18.

In the final drives, rather than say we scored in spite of the drops, it's interesting that people don't point to the fact that Smith overcame an insane number of drops and still got us into scoring distance.

There are a lot of games to pick on Smith. I wasn't please with most of his performances the first half of the year, nor did I at all like his performance at Denver. But against Denver at home, San Diego, Washington, and Oakland he has been outstanding.

[Coach]

Perhaps that the first 8-9 games was the fact that Smith and the whole offense (including coaches) were trying to figure out how they will perform under Reid's new scheme, combined with the timing of the QB/WR/TE's along with the Offensive line.

It's not a coincidence that after 10 weeks (including the bye week) that it probably got to a point where it suddenly makes sense for the players and the timing between the QB's/WR's/TE's has improved and the gelling of the O-Line, combined with shuffling them to find the best players on the line, where everybody's comfort factor has improved, which would correspond with the increase of the PPG offensively.

Case in point. The first 9 weeks, the O-line was a nightmare, giving up sacks from left, middle, right, defenders blowing by them, etc, etc. While they still struggle on certain situations, the improvement on the offensive line has shown. There has been more clean pockets recently than I could imagine during the first 9 games. There's improvement.

[Coach]

In fairness, those two comments are correct.

Yeah, we scored 38? points in that game, but we were also pretty shitty IIRC on 3rd down. 30% I think, while SD was near 50%.

So yeah, I can see why some would say those things. Personally, I think he played about as well as he's capable of in that game, so I can't blame him.

I can understand why others might blame him partially, however. Anyone blaming him completely is a moron, though.

And that's the part, where I bolded, (Not directed at you by any means) that people blame Alex for losing the game because the Chiefs only got 30% on 3rd down situations. Well, then who's fault is it for SD's getting 50% of their 3rd down situations? Last I checked, Alex isn't the defensive coordinator or the CB/FS that let a wide open receiver/tight end convert that 3rd down.

[chiefzilla1501]

Perhaps that the first 8-9 games was the fact that Smith and the whole offense (including coaches) were trying to figure out how they will perform under Reid's new scheme, combined with the timing of the QB/WR/TE's along with the Offensive line.

It's not a coincidence that after 10 weeks (including the bye week) that it probably got to a point where it suddenly makes sense for the players and the timing between the QB's/WR's/TE's has improved and the gelling of the O-Line, combined with shuffling them to find the best players on the line, where everybody's comfort factor has improved, which would correspond with the increase of the PPG offensively.

Case in point. The first 9 weeks, the O-line was a nightmare, giving up sacks from left, middle, right, defenders blowing by them, etc, etc. While they still struggle on certain situations, the improvement on the offensive line has shown. There has been more clean pockets recently than I could imagine during the first 9 games. There's improvement.

I won't get into the head of Alex Smith... but it sure seems to me like Alex Smith began to realize that his defense wasn't going to keep winning him games. A lot of players are playing better, but I just think opening up that offense and getting rid of the ball faster have been huge for Smith. That makes Charles better, which makes Smith much better. And it limits what a defense can do to stop you.

[Rausch]

Yeah.

I'd love to still hate this trade for the arse-raping in value we got but we're in the playoffs now.

We score on D, on special teams, and our offense is finally effective.

Fucks given = 0...

[Saccopoo]

Yeah.

I'd love to still hate this trade for the arse-raping in value we got but we're in the playoffs now.

We score on D, on special teams, and our offense is finally effective.

****s given = 0...

Team is in the playoffs. Take that value and toss it.

Now, if you want to get technical, the first part of the trade is Justin Hunter, WR; Titans. That's who was taken with that second round pick that was traded away.

Currently, in the 2013 season, he has 18 catches for 354 yards and was suspended by the team this past week for violating team rules.

[JohnnyV13]

Team is in the playoffs. Take that value and toss it.

Now, if you want to get technical, the first part of the trade is Justin Hunter, WR; Titans. That's who was taken with that second round pick that was traded away.

Currently, in the 2013 season, he has 18 catches for 354 yards and was suspended by the team this past week for violating team rules.

But who would the Chiefs have taken in that spot?

[ChiefsCountry]

But who would the Chiefs have taken in that spot?

Justin Ertz
Robert Woods
Kiko Alonso

[RINGLEADER]

Justin Ertz
Robert Woods
Kiko Alonso

The Chiefs wouldn't have taken anyone who was able to contribute this year and/or was not on IR by now...

[GOB]

I won't get into the head of Alex Smith... but it sure seems to me like Alex Smith began to realize that his defense wasn't going to keep winning him games. A lot of players are playing better, but I just think opening up that offense and getting rid of the ball faster have been huge for Smith. That makes Charles better, which makes Smith much better. And it limits what a defense can do to stop you.

It just takes time for the line to gel.

I caught the first Denver game last year and it was laughable. I remember thinking to myself "We weren't in the running but, I'm glad we didn't get Manning." They got better every week and here they are. Saw that with Alex and the Niners in 2011 and seeing it now with the 2013 Chiefs.

I don't know that outcomes have been what we've always wanted but I think we've seen progress week to week and that's what give me faith in both Alex and Reid. I'd be clamoring for their heads too if we were just stuck in a rut with no means of getting bettter but clearly that is not the case with this team.